….annual influenza vaccination is effective against seasonal influenza, but hampers the development of virus-specific CD8+ T cell responses.

that would require you to educate yourself using resources that Alex Jones and his ilk haven't provided you.

Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by VneZonyDostupa

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I said CEO types. But even the "positions" existed back then, albeit under other titles. I'm sure you're familiar with Machievelli's The Prince, a well-known manual popular from Washington to Wall Street. It was written about 1513.

If you bothered to click on any of the links I provide you'd find they usually lead to Pubmed citations - PubMed is the US National Institutes of Health Database for research. A great resource for those of us interested in actual knowledge, not hate-mongering and power-tripping.

Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa

Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by VneZonyDostupa

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I said CEO types. But even the "positions" existed back then, albeit under other titles. I'm sure you're familiar with Machievelli's The Prince, a well-known manual popular from Washington to Wall Street. It was written about 1513.

The presence of authoritarian figures has absolute nothing to do with the presence of medicine.

Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by VneZonyDostupa

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The standard 'bibles' of CEO's and politicians are still Machiavelli's The Prince from 1513, and Sun Tzu's Art of War from somewhere around 300 B.C. - evidencing the continuation of a particular "authoritarian-cum-adversarial" approach to leadership. ...an approach that is quite evident in industrialized Western medicine, including the dominant but clearly inadequate and inappropriate approach to understanding and treating disease.

edit on 10/10/11 by soficrow because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa

Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by VneZonyDostupa

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The standard 'bibles' of CEO's and politicians are still Machiavelli's The Prince from 1513, and Sun Tzu's Art of War from somewhere around 300 B.C. - evidencing the continuation of a particular "authoritarian-cum-adversarial" approach to leadership. ...an approach that is quite evident in industrialized Western medicine, including the dominant but clearly inadequate and inappropriate approach to understanding and treating disease.

None of this has anything to do with the fact that many more women died in childbirth than today,

we can thank modern, Western medicine for the higher survival rate.

Maternal Mortality in the United States: A Human Rights Failure

With 99% of maternal deaths occurring in developing countries, it is too often assumed that maternal mortality is not a problem in wealthier countries. Yet, statistics released in September of 2010 by the United Nations place the United States 50th in the world for maternal mortality — with maternal mortality ratios higher than almost all European countries, as well as several countries in Asia and the Middle East.1, 2

Even more troubling, the United Nations data show that between 1990 and 2008, while the vast majority of countries reduced their maternal mortality ratios for a global decrease of 34%, maternal mortality nearly doubled in the United States.1 For a country that spends more than any other country on health care and more on childbirth-related care than any other area of hospitalization — US$86 billion a year — this is a shockingly poor return on investment.3, 4

Given that at least half of maternal deaths in the United States are preventable,5 this is not just a matter of public health, but a human rights failure.6

Honestly, why do you even post here if you're not going to interact with other members?

All you do is go off on tangents and ignore the points others are making

(unless, of course, they agree with your own, in which ase you laud them for being 'smarter' and 'open-minded' enough to see only your side of the coin).

Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa
reply to post by soficrow

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*sigh*

Yet another case of Soficrow reading just one source and not questioning anything in it, or putting a bit of critical thinking into it. What a sad, but predictable, thing.

(...)

Annual flu shots may lower cross-protection, say Dutch researchers
Annual flu vaccination appears to blunt the CD8+ T-cell response in children, which may interfere with cross-protection against influenza strains not targeted by the vaccine, according to a study by Dutch researchers in the Journal of Virology. Scientists studied blood samples from 27 unvaccinated children (median age, 6.0 years; range, 2-9) and 14 children with cystic fibrosis (CF) who received annual flu shots (median age, 6.6; range, 2-9). They found that the unvaccinated children had an age-dependent increase of virus-specific CD8+ T-cell response that was absent in the vaccinated group. The researchers had previously shown in animals that the decreased CD8+ T-cell response correlates with lower immunity against other strains of flu, or heterosubtypic immunity. They write that annual flu vaccination is effective but may have underappreciated drawbacks. "By no means, do we suggest halting annual vaccination of children, especially those at high risk for complications such as the CF patients. . . . However, long-term annual vaccination using inactivated vaccines may hamper the induction of cross-reactive CD8+ T cell responses by natural infections and thus may affect the induction of heterosubtypic immunity. This may render young children that have not been previously infected with an influenza virus more susceptible to infection with a pandemic influenza virus of a novel subtype." They also write that using CF patients rather than healthy vaccinated children should not affect the study's outcome.
Aug 31 J Virol abstract

(...)

Does annual vaccination hamper
natural immunity?

Dr. Rogier Bodewes of Erasmus Medical Center
gave a talk entitled “Annual vaccination against
influenza hampers development of virusspecific
CD8+ T cell immunity in children”. Since
2007, a recommendation had been issued in the
US and several European countries to vaccinate
all healthy children between 6 and 59 months
of age against seasonal influenza. Bodewes was
concerned that while vaccination is effective
against seasonal influenza, vaccination with
the inactivated virus might not induce immunity
against other subtypes. In animal models,
infection with the seasonal influenza A viruses
induces heterosubtypic immunity against (potentially)
pandemic strains. With widespread
vaccination using an inactivated virus, this effect
might be lost. In short, Bodewes suspected
that vaccination might prevent the development
of natural immunity.

In a study of 14 vaccinated children with cystic
fibrosis against a control group of unvaccinated
children, Bodewes and his team found no significant
differences in the virus-specific CD4+
T cell immunity and an age-related increase in
the development of virus-specific CD8+ T cel
immunity in unvaccinated children. They also
found a significant difference between vaccinated
and unvaccinated children in children
older than 5 years.

Bodewes’ hunch was confirmed. While annual
vaccination reduces disease in children, there’s
room for improvement.

“Children vaccinated annually should be vaccinated
with priority when a pandemic occurs,”
said Bodewes. “The results highlight the
importance of developing vaccines that induce
heterosubtypic immunity against multiple influenza
A virus subtypes.”