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Witchcraft and its repercussions.

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posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by Toffeeapple
 





Witches are 'wise' people who learn about energy & how to manipulate it.


Actually, such people are usually nowadays called shamans, or mystics...."Witch" has lost that meaning. Nowadays it refers to someone who manipulates others through magick. That is what i meant by the word "witchcraft".




posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 01:00 PM
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the Shaman is the wise protector and intercessor for the tribe, a healer, one who has access to higher planes of reality and the means to bring them to this dimension to help the tribe. He or She is the Shepard of a tribe


TPTB believe strongly in ritual magic and looting of other dimensional planes of existence,they have inverted the Shaman role to be a predator on the tribe.


or so it seems to me



posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
To clarfy, it should be understood i mean "witchcraft" as the common parlance sense of "manipulation through magick" and not in the Wicca religion sense.

I realize Wiccans are more or less moral people who dont engage(or atleast i would hope) in magick designed to manipulate others.


I bristled at the term 'witchcraft' I admit. What you're speaking of (as others pointed out) is voudun, houdun, santaria, sorcery, etc.

More or less moral? Again I take umbrage. Wiccan's adhere to a rather strict moral code. While there are really only two principles to it, they are stringent.

1. And if it harm NONE, do what thou will: the main rule of Wicca. You must not harm anyone. If you really parse this, this would include quite a lot of the ten commandments. Adultery? You're harming someone. Stealing, murder, telling lies? All harming someone. This dovetails into the belief about repercussions...

2. What good you do comes back to you threefold. What harm you do comes back to you SEVENFOLD. Personally I find this to be far more of an impetus to attempt to only do good unto others and the world, than the notion of 'if I'm bad I'll go to Hell... but I can even get out of that if 'saved', 'confessed', or whatever your specific organized religion's dogma teaches you.



posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by Ceriddwen

Originally posted by dontreally
To clarfy, it should be understood i mean "witchcraft" as the common parlance sense of "manipulation through magick" and not in the Wicca religion sense.

I realize Wiccans are more or less moral people who dont engage(or atleast i would hope) in magick designed to manipulate others.


Just because someone practices magick does not mean they do it to manipulate others. You are, again, lumping all witches into one basket.


Can I just clarify - Witchcraft IS the art of understanding and manipulating the web to achieve a desired outcome. I use the word web in the meaning of web of wyrd. Which is a very difficult concept to get over - think of it as a spiders web intersecting and connecting all life on earth, flora, fauna, mineral and man.

Magic is neither black or white - it is all in the intent. And to be honest you have to be very focused in your intent.

Everybody practices manipulation in a small degree each day. How you judge a comment before you speak it, how you talk to your kids - hopefully thinking before you speak. How you wish them to react to what you say. Can that be called witchcraft?

Little rituals you have - from the rites you preform before going to bed to making coffee.

Psychology would have been seen in the middle ages as witchcraft!

I honestly thought we had left the witch craze era long ago in the 17th Century.

Going to end here before I rant further.



posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 03:21 PM
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is your relative still ill? there may be eastern remedies to help her but that would still mean you would have to follow my initial advice and that is dont suffer her for the sake of your own petty existence. sounds like you need to cleanse yourself and your family and your dwellings. for the sake of semantics any person born with the blood to do what you claim she did is closer to god than not; but thats not your argument: for if it is the moral implications of this whole thread is very iffy. everyone nowadays has enough god in them to manifest an intent that is derivative from some "higher plane"! the rhetoric in this thread is an example of your own sorcery! who cares if she covets what some other person created in their own imagery as wealth, job in the bible had lot's and we all want more!?

basically what im saying is are you jealous or zealous of her her family and how the difference in culture from hers and yours represents material things?



posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


You are drawing rather simplistic conclusions,
not to mention making sweeping generalizations.
What does this woman have to do with all of witchcraft, in its myriad, unrelated, vastly different forms?



posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by CodyOutlaw
 


This topic discusses my relationship with my uncles wife. All the many nuances of her behavior are impossible to convey. All i can do is present basic facts like what shes done, where she coms from etc, to provide the context for why i suspect what i do about her.

As i explained before, one one side, she is interested in spirituality.Shes always talking about the spiritual experiences she had while living in Ecuador, family members who are rosicrucians, freemasons (down in south america), her psychic powers, and her daughters psychic powers (so they say)...She does rituals, gave her daughter the middle name lakshmi.

Thats one side. On the other side, she doesnt know how old she is (being an orphan in ecuador, she claims she never had a record of what year she was born. She estimates 50-55........Isnt this absurdly strange? almost conartist like?) shes very very strange.. Almost like her entire persona is an act, a show for the outside world, outside her family. And then, there is her conniving nature like saying "Donna said this about you", and to my mom, "Theresa said this about you", until the two of them began to hate each other. She was working my mom and aunt against each other....Why??? Well, my uncle is a fairly well known latin artist. She married him some 20 years ago when he was just getting started out... Now, hes older, hes worked with some of the biggest musicians, stevie wonder, jessie cook, peter gabriel, shakira, charlotte church etc....The whole world he and her live in is fantastical. Theyre always mingling with other musicians, in toronto, LA, etc, and those people arent exactly the most coherent.

Im still trying to figure out why she was working my aunt and mom like that.... ?? It is very strange.

I dont have much experience with "black magic", but i understand the dynamics of it all. I know one can create a spirit between two people that "captures" the energy of their feud. This energy through certain symbolic rituals/actions can be directed towards certain ends; propsperity, growth etc.

How do i know she wasnt doing just that between mom and her sister?



posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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I guess that we are to expect more threads on trying to suppress freedom of expression, ie. anyting supernatural, or psi, or what certain fundamentalists deem witchcraft and socery. Reminds me of Iran beheading a visitor for writing a new age type book.



posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


Ah, I see now - in that case I think people (myself included) are responding to the title of your thread, more than the subject matter.

Does your mom believe that this is what happened?



posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
To clarfy, it should be understood i mean "witchcraft" as the common parlance sense of "manipulation through magick" and not in the Wicca religion sense.

I realize Wiccans are more or less moral people who dont engage(or atleast i would hope) in magick designed to manipulate others.


Then perhaps a better way to style this would be "Dark Magic" or something referring to the Force being used and (more to the point) qualifying how it is being used, rather than a word for the one using that force. Plenty of people call themselves "Witches" that are very moral people, and there are plenty of people that will call themselves a "Shaman" that are not such good people, or vice versa.

The magic is a tool, how it is applied is determined entirely by the user. In these more esoteric matters the word one uses to categorize oneself as a practitioner of magic has little enough to do with how it is applied.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 12:31 AM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


You know what happens when you remove the W from W-itch, and insert a B in there. You get a B-itch.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 04:28 AM
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Originally posted by Shelbee

Can I just clarify - Witchcraft IS the art of understanding and manipulating the web to achieve a desired outcome. I use the word web in the meaning of web of wyrd. Which is a very difficult concept to get over - think of it as a spiders web intersecting and connecting all life on earth, flora, fauna, mineral and man.

Magic is neither black or white - it is all in the intent. And to be honest you have to be very focused in your intent.

Everybody practices manipulation in a small degree each day. How you judge a comment before you speak it, how you talk to your kids - hopefully thinking before you speak. How you wish them to react to what you say. Can that be called witchcraft?

Little rituals you have - from the rites you preform before going to bed to making coffee.


Yes you manipulate the web, as you call it, but the OP is specifically stating that witches manipulate others directly with the intent to harm. You have the textbook version of what magick is down, and I agree with the little acts of magick that occur every day, as you stated. I just want the OP to stop with the whole Witches are evil people who only seek to injure others. That isn't the case. I want the stereotyping to cease. That's all.

That said, you quoted and replied to me, and it seemed you started out responding to me, but wound up speaking about the OP's theory. If you just used my post as a jumping board, ok. I was just unsure.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 04:34 AM
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Originally posted by dontreally

As i explained before, one one side, she is interested in spirituality.Shes always talking about the spiritual experiences she had while living in Ecuador, family members who are rosicrucians, freemasons (down in south america),


None of this is an indication of witchcraft/voodoo/houdon/santeria.



Thats one side. On the other side, she doesnt know how old she is (being an orphan in ecuador, she claims she never had a record of what year she was born. She estimates 50-55........Isnt this absurdly strange? almost conartist like?) shes very very strange.. Almost like her entire persona is an act, a show for the outside world, outside her family. And then, there is her conniving nature like saying "Donna said this about you", and to my mom, "Theresa said this about you", until the two of them began to hate each other. She was working my mom and aunt against each other....Why???


I would imagine that there are LOTS of orphans from third world countries who don't know exactly how old they are. This doesn't make them con-artists. Also, I have personally known people who love, LOVE, to do nothing more than sow seeds of dissension and conflict wherever they go because it helps them to feel better about themselves (low self-esteem, destructive nature as I said in my first post.), or because they just thrive on the drama. It doesn't mean that they are "witches" as you seem to think or that they are evil. I just don't understand how these clues of yours, and the naming of a child after a Goddess, indicates a "witch" to you. Seems like you are looking for a pat answer to a question of a human nature variety, not a magickal variety.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 04:48 AM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


This does not sound like anything magical. You bring up the conundrum of her being spiritualistic on one hand and mean and deceitful on the other hand, I have come across many people through my life following other belief systems who claimed to be of that faith, but only cherry picked little parts of their religious doctrine that might advance their hatred of others.

It is something that happens all around us, no different that corrupt police officers we see on TV, those who have taken an other to serve and protect, abusing that power to feed their own ego.

It's just how some people seem to be



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by Ceriddwen
 


I must admit - I did use the post as a jump board. My apologies if it was confusing.

The trouble is I can be a bit pedantic on the definition of Witch.


And I quite agree with the stereotyping of witches. We have King James and fairy tales to blame for that.
I have experienced myself how limiting and dangerous perceptions of what a witch is.


Unfortunately in my experience the moment someone mentions the word witch all logic and rational thought goes out the window. Red rag to a bull.

I think we're probably on the same side of the court on this.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 01:42 AM
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Originally posted by Shelbee

I think we're probably on the same side of the court on this.


I think you are probably correct and we probably are.

Wonder why we haven't heard back from the OP for a bit.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 02:10 AM
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Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Ceriddwen
 





That could be what is going on with this woman, or she could be being influenced by something negative.


She is not an ignoramus.

Before she met my uncle she was into the whole New Age culture popular in the 70s. She gave her daughter the middle name "lakshmi". She comes from Ecuador, where practical magick and shamanism is still commonly practiced. In the inner cities particularly, black magick is indulged in.

She performed rituals before the building of her house. She takes nothing from anyone. She tries as hard as possible to maintain the "equity" between herself and others.

At the same time, she gossips and spreads rumors about what so and so said. She did this between my mom and her sister - who were best friends - and broke their relationship. Only years later did they put two and two together, that she spoke negatively about you to me, and vive-versa.

And lastly, SHES INTO MYSTICISM.

Im not really speculating beyond a probability. It is actually quite probable that she is exactly what i suspect her to be. Such people exist. They live by consciously leeching off others. They do this through sorcery - magick. Something you must not understand very deeply if you think you cant profit from it..initially.


You are the one steeped in great illusion here. This women is just a kniving bitch nothing more. The rituals are just poor superstitious attempts at trying to gain some control over her pathetic life they have no real power to influence. Blaming others depression and ailments on this women is also a superstitious cop out. These people need to find and face thier problems to overcome them not blame them on witches goblins and ghosts... Also sorcery is about the use of drugs nothing more it not about Wicca. Wicca is harmless.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 02:20 AM
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Originally posted by Shelbee

Originally posted by Ceriddwen

Originally posted by dontreally
To clarfy, it should be understood i mean "witchcraft" as the common parlance sense of "manipulation through magick" and not in the Wicca religion sense.

I realize Wiccans are more or less moral people who dont engage(or atleast i would hope) in magick designed to manipulate others.


Just because someone practices magick does not mean they do it to manipulate others. You are, again, lumping all witches into one basket.


Can I just clarify - Witchcraft IS the art of understanding and manipulating the web to achieve a desired outcome. I use the word web in the meaning of web of wyrd. Which is a very difficult concept to get over - think of it as a spiders web intersecting and connecting all life on earth, flora, fauna, mineral and man.

Magic is neither black or white - it is all in the intent. And to be honest you have to be very focused in your intent.

Everybody practices manipulation in a small degree each day. How you judge a comment before you speak it, how you talk to your kids - hopefully thinking before you speak. How you wish them to react to what you say. Can that be called witchcraft?

Little rituals you have - from the rites you preform before going to bed to making coffee.

Psychology would have been seen in the middle ages as witchcraft!

I honestly thought we had left the witch craze era long ago in the 17th Century.

Going to end here before I rant further.



Agree totally with this.

One need not be a 'witch' (whatever this is supposed to mean, or is interpreted as), to obtain the same results, either purposely, or, unconsciously.

Intent, is all important...since this is, direction...anything else is a haphazard dissemination of energy. Like attracts like...good intent, returns good (although this can be hard to see sometimes)...malefic intent, returns malefic...balance is maintained, either within a closed system or without a larger, more complex system.

Akushla



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 09:46 AM
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OP, I am quoting your original question, because I'm curious about people like that. Is it really their religion or are they just individuals with personality problems?


Originally posted by dontreally
Often, the objective of the sorceror who seeks to hurt another person is to create in him an irrational compulsion or complex. The spirit that he creates and focuses on a particular individual is believed to enter that person unconsciously as a thought or feeling. If the person isnt strong minded, eventually this complex will break through his conscious defenses and create what could later become a permanent mental illness.

Anyone know of someone who does things like this?
...



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by dontreally
Certain people deeply involved in the mystical realm allow themselves to become puppets for malevolent forces. They may think theyre getting the 'upper hand', but infact, it always backfires. It never ends good for the meddling magician. It is amazing anyone could allow themself to become so entrapped by such stupidity. But alas, the ego, that pathetic, petty, idiotic force, jumps at the opportunity to play with forces beyond its powers.


Even if succesfull, what would the world look like? If a magician manages to make all of the people in the world believe they don't have a soul, or free will, that there is no other 'world' or dimension other than this physical and that magician would have complete control over all people's soul able to make them think whatever he wants them to, what kind of world is that? It would be like living in a world with artificially intelligent robots, like replica's from Blade runner or mr. Data from Star Trek, it would resemble life but it wouldn't be life. Having someone love you out of their own free will is something else than program people to imitate loving you. Such a person would live in an eternal hell, never knowing what life is despite all his advanced understanding which he should have to cast such a spell.



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