It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Do we really want to live like this for 4 more years?

page: 2
0
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 07:46 AM
link   
Well Thomas,

Is Bush not the most reclusive President ever? Does he not have loyalty oaths? Does Cheney barely come out of hiding, except to attack John Kerry? Does Bush attempt to reach out to anyone besides religious fanatics and macho young cowboys who want a "tough guy?"

Does he not attempt to discredit anyone who speaks against him? Does he approve of dissent?

Those are the reasons I will not be voting for him.

The only thing he offers us is, "I am a strong leader on the war on terror." What would he be saying if he didn't have 9/11 and 3000 dead Americans to capitalize on?


[edit on 29-8-2004 by cstyle226]




posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 07:53 AM
link   
And I will add this:

I'm an Independent who voted for Bush in 2000. After 9/11, he had not only the country united, but the world! Look what he did with it?

I think that is the thing that bothers me more than anything. He had a chance to go down in history as one the greatest Presidents, and he squandered it. He divided the country, alienated a ton of people, and turned the world against us.

For that, he doesn't deserve to be President of the United States of America. However, I am sure he will "find" a way to maintain his power.



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 08:46 AM
link   

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Unbelievable. Clinton did not lower the deficit, that was a fiscal slight of hand. Pay attention, huh.

More people are below the poverty level? Interesting, as there are no other indicators that would point to that. Could it be maybe a tinkering with what one calls "poverty" (they love to play with that, depending on who is in office), what groups are being looked at as compared to earlier numbers, a higher number of illegal immigrants (My area is being overrun by illegals), and the mere fact that figures don't lie but liars figure?


Everywhere I see, jobs are on the upswing. Unemployment is good, even the illegals are doing well enough to send most of their earnings out of country while spending a good chunk in the local Wal-Marts.

If one will try and recall, the nation was already going into a recession when Bush took office, and the economy was further crippled by something some of you seem to have forgotten. It occurred on 11 Sept., 2001; jog any memories?



Ok, you're kidding right? First of all, no the jobs are on an upswing, show me proof of this...try to make me a believer. As far as September 11, 2001, yeah that did bring our economy down, however, it was an inside job. The towers didn't explode, they imploded and how damned convenient that Good Ole Pres. GWB was out of Washington DC the day the "plane" hit the pentagon. HE WAS IN FLORIDA! HOW FREAKING CONVENIENT!!!! He's not a wonderful president, he hasn't done anything for our country and he's an idiot.

Remember to vote in November's election b/c even just one vote counts, Unless your brother is the Governor of Florida and then it doesn't REALLY matter who won.

Doesn't matter who wins the election, it's who counts the votes!- Joseph Stalin



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 08:51 AM
link   
Indeed. You ever notice when someone asks Bush about the protests, he always replies, "Look, this is a democracy..." Everytime I hear him say that I feel like in the back of his "mind" he's thinking, "for now...."

P.S. Ben Stein is on Fox News, and says he's outraged by the protests.

[edit on 29-8-2004 by cstyle226]



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 08:54 AM
link   

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne

More people are below the poverty level? Interesting, as there are no other indicators that would point to that. Could it be maybe a tinkering with what one calls "poverty" (they love to play with that, depending on who is in office), what groups are being looked at as compared to earlier numbers, a higher number of illegal immigrants (My area is being overrun by illegals), and the mere fact that figures don't lie but liars figure?



well, the mainstream media, and official government reports, both conclude that the economy has shrunk, and that poverty levels have risen significantly both this year and throughout the past 4. but i guess it's possible that you're correct, and the government/mainstream press are the ones tinkering with figures...


news.yahoo.com.../nm/20040827/us_nm/economy_dc_18

news.yahoo.com.../washpost/20040827/ts_washpost/a35175_2004aug26

news.yahoo.com.../usatoday/20040827/ts_usatoday/censuspovertyrosebymillion

-koji K.

[edit on 29-8-2004 by koji_K]



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 09:36 AM
link   
The Republicans are all over the news this morning calling all the protestors "democrats."

Now mix that with the Republican groups who are out there in smaller numbers agitating the demonstrators, and some of the anarchist groups, and what do you get?

If any bit of violence erupts, they will be labeled "crazy democrats." Call me crazy, but I think they (Rovians) are looking forward to "out of hand" demonstrations.

[edit on 29-8-2004 by cstyle226]



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 09:52 AM
link   
“More people are below the poverty level? Interesting, as there are no other indicators that would point to that. Could it be maybe a tinkering with what one calls "poverty" (they love to play with that, depending on who is in office), what groups are being looked at as compared to earlier numbers, a higher number of illegal immigrants (My area is being overrun by illegals), and the mere fact that figures don't lie but liars figure?”

The poverty level peaked in 1992, then dropped each year from 1992 through 2000. Since 2000 the poverty level has risen each year.

“Everywhere I see, jobs are on the upswing. Unemployment is good, even the illegals are doing well enough to send most of their earnings out of country while spending a good chunk in the local Wal-Marts.”

Real median household income peaked in 1999 and stayed the same in 2000. It has dropped in each of 2001 and 2002 and remained the same in 2003.

A good reference for stats on income, poverty and health insurance coverage in the US is www.census.gov...

“While nobody can deny that the president and this congress have spent more than their share of our money in the last four years, the spending would not have been as high were it not for the little thing called a war!”

Yes, a war that was totally unnecessary and shocked the world. A war based upon lies and misinformation. Iraq was no real threat to the US. We are not defending our country in Iraq. We’re wasting our money and weakening our defense against the real threats to our security, such as North Korea and Iran. So, we're all paying for a blunder made by our current "leadership".

“As far as what would be the matter with Kerry waffling, switching opinions with the wind, and being a poll-watcher, that is not what a "leader" does.”]

A good leader should 1) exercise good judgement and reason, 2) be honest with the people whom he/she serves, 3) never stick to a failed policy and always have a way out, and 4) learn the lessons history teaches us. Vietnam comes to mind.

“Problem is, neither are very good choices, huh?”

Thomas Crowne, on this point we agree. It’s a matter of choosing the lesser of the evils, though. Given a choice between someone I know is a failure and another who is an unknown entity, unless there is some glaring reason to the contrary, I’ll generally choose the latter.

Oh Brother, what a dismal outlook ...



[edit on 8/29/2004 by netbound]

[edit on 8/29/2004 by netbound]

[edit on 8/29/2004 by netbound]

[edit on 8/29/2004 by netbound]



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 10:09 AM
link   
Excellent post netbound, and while you are correct about the dismal outlook, imagine what we will be discussing on these very forums in december, when President Bush gets his second term and has no re-election to worry about.

I can imagine it now...

1. Further divide the country, especially by income.
2. Further allow media consolidation.
3. Effectively eliminate the Constitution
4. Iran, here we come.
5. There's more, but do you need to hear more?



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 10:13 AM
link   
I dont think we have choice in the matter. Its going to take more than 4 year regardless.

I have said many times, If Bush loses, which he is not going to, he will be back.



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 10:15 AM
link   
And not only will he back, but Jeb Bush has Presidential aspirations as well.

The Bush Monarchy is far from finished.



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 11:49 AM
link   
Thanks cstyle226 for the support. We are of a like mind on this one.

My God, cstyle226, you're deranged! I just lost my lunch!! A President named Jeb?&%*$!? You'll have to excuse me now while I go cut my own throat ...



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 12:10 PM
link   
Netbound, you didn't know about Jeb?

If...scratch that....WHEN Bush gets his second term, it will be Jeb vs Hillary in '08....and America continues it's downward spiral....





Every empire falls...can we save our nation? (rhetorical)



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 04:21 PM
link   



I can't even turn on our local radio or TV stations without hearing a biased report on the days events. "We report. You decide." The local talk radio is dominated by right thinking white guys swearing their undying support for our subnormal Commander in Chief. Anyone who calls in and opposes popular sentiment is shouted off the air by the talk show hosts.


I live in Phoenix Arizona also and its definately very sickening here for sure. KFYI radio are a bunch of evil-worshiping, Bush loving "patriots", the news stations are solely devoted to "our wonderful" president" and all the churchgoers have Bush rigns for bumperstickers, right next to Jesus. Its extremely disturbing to me. These are people who still make $6.00/hr, have no insurance and absolutely NO job security.
I ask you: WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?

Has that snake in Washington bitten them?, that evil lying snake who morphs into a dumb man with southern drawl? What is it THESE people see in this president? Are these people working for the devil under the guise of "good"?
If I could figure out this I'd sleep better. People at work say he's a good "moral man". If I remind them he's slaughtered by his invasion 20,000 people, they, those good churchgoers say"He had to do it to protect us".

Oh, well, they DO spray the air here on a regular basis. Maybe this spray is a "special" thing developed in Washington.
I have this to say to this people: When its too late, when you realize what you've voted for, when more crimes are commited, and when the world decides its time to nuke us, it WONT be on my conscience that by my dumb acts the entire USA is suffering. My conscience will be clear.
Thank you God that I have a mind to think with. Please afford others the same blessing.



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 08:10 PM
link   
cstyle, what diffference does it matter that Bush is reclusive? What, are we going to bounce over to his haircolor/style next, just to find issues?

Discredit those who speak out against him? Man, where have you been? You paid any attention to Kerry lately? Hello, Pot, meet Kettle. As a matter of fact, Kerry could learn a few things from Bush about not stirring up issues. There have been manya times when I thought Bush should have absolutely waxed the floor with the butts of liberal liars, but he didn't give them the time of day.

You guys living in bad areas? Having problems finding jobs (or are you having problems finding entry level senior CEO jobs?)? Maybe relocation is in order. Aerospace and auto industries are on the upswing in Alabama. As a matter of fact, jobs in general are on the upswing. The employment numbers are never even considered around here, except when the non-southern parts of the country cause the numbers to tweek down a bit, thereby messing with our stock portfolios. Jobs are there and I wish you bozos would pick one or two of them up, it'd greatly help both my stock and the economy!

One more thought before I skip over to another thread. While I was purusing this thread, I noticed somebody spewing off at the mouth about the Bush admin making money in oil, blah, blah, the usual...I'd like to point out a couple of things. First off, Clinton and Gore both received more money from oil companies, but I heard nobody screaming that their election attempts were fraudulent, I never heard some idiot call the Clinton admin a "regime" (seriously, if you are so stupid as to think that the lawfully elected administration, whether you like it or not, is a regime, then I wish you'd go and live in a country with a regime-ran de facto government for a few years!).

Let's look at Cheney, for a moment, a fellow that many of you can't think of without cursing. He had interest in Halliburton, right? Well, the libs couldn't take the thought of a republican having any interest and run for the White House (Why, that's only for the Dems, right Kerry?), so they screamed until he sold it off. Then, they screamed bloody murder because he sold it off as they demanded, and he actually made a PROFIT!! Only Dems can sell for a profit (Right, Cattle Futures Baroness, Hillary?) because we all know that if a Republican does it, its called GREED! So now, he has no interest in it, neither he or Bush own any oil companies or anything, but to try and keep the mantra alive, the libs scream that Bush's FRIENDS are making money! Do you guys ever feel stupid? Talk about being mindless, don't call people who are informed mindless, pal. There is quite a difference.

But back to our discussion, cstyle, those reasons for not voting for Bush are nothing more than hollow excuses. You might as well say you are going to vote for Kerry because you are making soup as one excuse is as good as another. I can give you plenty of reasons to not want to vote for Bush, and I mean some really good reasons where you can see his decisions have not been made with the constitution in mind. The problem is, Kerry is much worse, and has explained quite well that the U.N. and the rest of the world takes priority over the U.S. Should it be any wonder why the likes of France and Russia and pulling for Kerry? LOL! That should be your first indication that Kerry is a bad choice.

What we need is someone other than these two bozos (okay, for those who'd actually consider Nadar, these three bozos). Someone who understands the constitution, knows the history and foundation of the nation, has morals and knows right from wrong, and also has international diplomacy experience. Ah! Gee, the answer is obvious - Alana Keyes! Oh, that's right, he can't get the coverage because the media is owned predominately by the liberals, and the small slice owned by Right Wing don't want a good man in office anymore than the liberals do.

Write Keyes' name in.



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 08:14 PM
link   
yes you do want a leader who listens to mob rule as you put it because it is a democracy and the elected officials who are supposed to govern a nation need to listen to the people. It's their job.

If you want a leader who doesn't listen to "mob rule" you essentially have a fascist state.

thanks,
drfunk



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 08:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by netbound
What happened to America? I think we've all gone mad! It's beyond my comprehension that such an arrogant, self-serving administration that has done so much damage to our nation and it's standing in the world can still have so much support from it's citizens. Either we've been subjected to some kind of mass mind control or we've all become stupid.

The dumbing-down of America has been going on for way more than 4 years. It's just been real subtle. You are slowly being told what to wear and what to eat. Look around, the media and government are slowly taking over, and neither party is blameless.

Our country has been on somewhat of a downward spiral. The date I like to use for the beginning of this downward trend is November 22, 1963. But, that is another topic on a lot of other threads.



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 10:10 PM
link   
”The dumbing-down of America has been going on for way more than 4 years. It's just been real subtle. You are slowly being told what to wear and what to eat. Look around, the media and government are slowly taking over, and neither party is blameless.”

DontTreadOnMe, I totally agree with you. I didn’t mean to imply that the dumification of America happened overnight. And I know both parties, and the public in general, each have a share of the blame. Personally, I’m an independent, politically, and have problems with both sides of the fence. Currently, though, I have REAL PROBLEMS with the present administration. They scare the hell out of me.

I’ve sometimes wondered if it’s not something to do with the Baby Boomer generation, and either the values it has passed along to the current generation, or the current generation’s reaction to the Baby Boomer’s sense of values. It seems that every generation rebels/reacts in some way to the one before it. In the 60’s and 70’s the Peace & Love/Make Love, Not War/Flower Child/ Sex, Drugs and Rock & Roll/Down With the Establishment generation was a reaction to the World War II/Creator’s of Thermonuclear Warfare/Cold War mentality of their parents. In the 80’s and 90’s the winds seemed to change toward the Yuppie/Self-Indulgent/What’s In It For Me/Opportunistic/Violence Works/It’s Mine – I Stole It Fair & Square kind of mentality, which was in turn a reaction to the Woodstock mentality of their parents. And here we are now, with a generation who supports the policy of pre-emptive strikes, who doesn’t seem to care if they’re lied to because lying is just part of the game, a generation with a “f**k you! Who needs you? We can kick you’re a**!!” attitude toward the rest of the world, and a generation that condones the use of violence to get it’s way. It’s kind of spooky in light of the technological capabilities we now have to totally destroy an enemy, combined with our lack of wisdom to control it.

Sorry for the above babble. I know it makes no sense. But, I do admit, I have to wonder sometimes how we got here, because it sure has me stumped. I keep wanting to wake up and realize it’s all been just a bad dream …


[edit on 8/29/2004 by netbound]



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 11:18 PM
link   
Check out this link, it gives a great, unbiased evaluation of our govt. and how it doesn't matter if Bush or Kerry wins, our govt. in general is already destroying itself.

wethepeoplesstateoftheunion.blogspot.com...



posted on Aug, 30 2004 @ 01:53 AM
link   

Originally posted by drfunk
yes you do want a leader who listens to mob rule as you put it because it is a democracy and the elected officials who are supposed to govern a nation need to listen to the people. It's their job.

If you want a leader who doesn't listen to "mob rule" you essentially have a fascist state.

thanks,
drfunk


No, you do not want a leader that follows the whims of a fickle crowd, what you should want is a leader that runs on a particular platform, and then once elected, stands by it. There should be no surprises. That does not meet the definition of a "fascist state", and, by the way, this nation, although it has fallen into the state of a democracy, was not intended to be one.



posted on Aug, 30 2004 @ 02:09 AM
link   
Dee, an interesting read, although not entirely unbiased (which is not necessarily a bad thing).

After reading the article, I scrolled through the quotes, and while I usually find a mass of quotes without more background information, I did find an important point of interest, one that I feel the need to pull out and place here, in case others didn't read it all.

"No state shall ...coin money; emit bills of credit; or make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts."
-From Article I.10.1 of the U.S. Constitution

This is a very important clue to how far astray the nation is. IAW the laws of nations, one knows that silver is what one uses intranationally, and gold is international payment, right? We also know that both gold and silver are of substance and self-worth. But what about "federal reserve notes", what are they?

Another thing you may call your paper money is "war scrip". During times of war, it only makes sense that a nation would not want their national worth to be taken by the enemy, so war scrip is used. Other than times of war, gold and silver is to be used, and the constitution, as stated above, makes that pretty clear. So why do we use federal reserve notes? For the sake of convenience? Well, that might be how you view the issue, but I assure you, that is not why they are circulated.

Greenspan's comment clarifies why after the "Civil War" (actually, a civil police action) Abraham Lincoln was murdered to prevent him from recinding martial law, thereby allowing the bankers, lawyers, large corporations and corrupt politicians huge control over the nation:

"The abandonment of the gold standard made it possible for the welfare statists (government bureaucrats) to use the banking system as an unlimited expansion of credit. In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation... Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the "hidden" confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process."



new topics

top topics



 
0
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join