US Marines headed to WALLSTREET to protect protesters! THIS IS IT

You people put way to much respect/hope in to your vets, you talk like they can do nothing wrong and act like they should be used as a shield to hide behind while abusing your rights (ripping down crowd control fences, throwing stuff around etc) is so sad.

*watches the repubs in this thread at work*

Shame what has happened to ATS. The good thing is this happened before elections. Now everyone gets to see peoples true colors, who is really for the people and who is not. I hate to break it to ya kids but as this proves, all those Ron Paul supporters not really for us.

reply to post by ShogunAssassins

This country is more divided now than it has been since the 60's. With many factions of view point all thinking they have the best way forward. Those disagreeing with you are not necessarily against the drive behind the protest, merely the method and direction

It really isn't that anyone disagreeing with you is not for the people. I think MOST of us are for The People, we just disagree on how to fix things.

We need to start looking at what we DO agree on in order to unite....and UNITED is the only way we shall see victory.....anything less makes us ALL pawns of TPTB

reply to post by ShogunAssassins

*** quietly whispers to those still listening ***
see that, over there ?? THAT is an instigator.

Those are the ppl you should distance yourselves from.
Stand firm in yourself.
Know your enemy and welcome their attacks for one day they too shall die.
Tomorrows are built by the hands of today and destroyed by the phantoms of yesterday.

reply to post by Cinaed


People take teams, and dont care for the cause.. But you gain an issue in that when the show themselves as "3rd party" and nuteral".. I simply want to point that out for later, when they start it again. These people are not "3rd party and nuteral" They are just a group of people gun shy from their own ticket. Cowards at best, liers at worst.

reply to post by bluestar.ranch


This wall street "protest" is looking more and more like an obama administration event---aren't the unions, NYPD and a healthy chunk of vets all big obama supporters? Even van jones is at the protest, cheering them on...c'mon folks, this is pure theater---the only thing absurd is that some people (including some naive protesters) seem to think this is real civil disobedience.

My question is: did the administration pay these so-called protesters?

I NEVER take anything at face value, and so I tried to find out what these protesters are actually protesting. After checking out the "General Assembly's" website, I also tried to find some balance.

This is the absolute BEST critique I could find - I agree with the blogger on almost everything.

This was taken from Henry Blodgett's blog on businessinsider.com. I have split it into "serials", so that everyone can see the entire list of grievances. Here's Part 1:

-----

Here's an annotated copy of the manifesto... Blogger's comments are in [brackets], the protestors' in the clear.

Declaration of the Occupation of New York City
[Nice echo of the Declaration of Independence.]

As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice [good start—the bailout WAS mass injustice—I'm still pissed-off about it], we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. [More Declaration of Independence cadence.]

We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people [unfair blanket smear], self-interest over justice [also an unfair smear], and oppression over equality [oh, please—Procter & Gamble makes toothpaste—it's not their job to worry about "equality"], run our governments ["run" is a bit strong, but "influence" is certainly fair].

We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage. [Yes, they appear to have taken some houses through an illegal process. But, to be fair, in almost all cases, they took them because you did not make your payments.]

They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses. [Oh, yes]

They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation. [In some cases, yes, but, again, a blanket smear]

They have poisoned the food supply through negligence [In some cases, yes], and undermined the farming system through monopolization. [You probably mean "consolidation," not "monopolization," but fine. Your food is now cheaper as a result of this consolidation, though.]

They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices. [Fair.]

They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions. [You mean they've tried to discourage the formation of unions? Okay. But unions cause a lot of problems, too. See the car industry bankruptcy, for example.]

They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right. [Oh, please. Grow up. The students borrowed the money. Don't blame the lenders for asking them to pay it back. And since when is education a "human right"? UPDATE: A couple of readers have pointed out that the UN has, in fact, declared education a right, at least elementary education. I'm not sure I agree with the UN, but I stand corrected. That said, it's clear the UN is referring to basic education, not college and professional educations, which are generally what lead to student loans. Basic education is, in fact, free in the United States. And no one takes out student loans to go K-12.]

They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay. [You mean they have reduced costs to remain competitive? Yes, some of them have. And they've had to. Many corporations have increased pay, however—see Google, Facebook, Apple, and Wall Street. And it's not fair to blame the healthcare mess on companies. Employer-provided health insurance should be a benefit, not a right.]

They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility. [The second part is wrong—plenty of companies get in legal trouble—but I'll leave first part to the legal scholars.]

Part 2 of Henry Blodgett's critique from businessinsider.com:

-----

They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance. [In aggregate? Possibly true. But many, many companies—probably the vast majority—have provided good health coverage for their employees, despite not being legally obligated to.]

They have sold our privacy as a commodity. [Seems unlikely that any company has actually sold your "privacy." Maybe your "private information"]

They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. [Examples, please. And please note that "the press" is generally owned by corporations, too, so they don't need the military and police to exercise control over it.]

They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit. [Some bad or sleazy companies, yes. Most, no.]

They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce. [No, they do not "determine" economic policy. They do have a lot of influence over economic policy But inasmuch as economic policy directly and primarily affects corporations—and the ~100 million Americans who work for corporations—it seems reasonable that they should have some influence here. Or do you exclude those ~100 million employees from "the people."?]

They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them. [True.]

They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil. [Well, oil and coal companies certainly aren't eager to see safe cold fusion or mass-solar or geo-thermal commercialized anytime soon. But alternative energy corporations would be stoked to see us forgo oil. And many other companies—most, actually—couldn't really care less what their power comes from, as long as it's affordable.]

They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit. ["Block?" You mean try to enforce their patents? Developing drugs is expensive. How would you like it if you spent $1 billion developing a boner pill only to have your competitor instantly reverse-engineer it and start selling it for 1/10th your price? Having at least some period of exclusivity seems perfectly reasonable.]

They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit. [Yes, some have.]

They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media. [Oh, come on. Take off the tinfoil hats. People aren't THAT stupid. And the media LOVES to trash corporations. And besides, now there's the Internet and Twitter, so you don't need the media anymore.]

They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt. [Sounds horrible. Need some details. Again, almost certainly not something the vast majority of companies have done.]

They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas. ["Perpetuated colonialism." Need some more detail there. And with respect to the "murder of innocent civilians overseas," you probably want to direct some blame at governments, too.]

They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. [Okay, but let's rephrase that, shall we? They make weapons that governments order.]

To the people of the world,

We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard!

*These grievances are not all-inclusive.

Read more: www.businessinsider.com...

reply to post by Honor93


Unfortunately, you didn't read the poem in context. I'd also let the man speak for himself. Perhaps those that write about you will say you're a "labeler," a "labelist," or even "Fox Junkie." In any event... I hope I don't find myself agreeing with those terms based on your tender tidbit of a performance. Your friends might think you're a little light in the pants, but I'll do my best to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Originally posted by Cinaed
reply to post by bjarneorn

 

When violence comes to America it needs to be focused and efficient, not some rage based lashing out in multiple directions.

...The moral of the story is there is a time for everything. Right now this group is not standing up for the entire country, they are lashing out about things affecting THEM.

If they want the country to support them they have to represent the best interest of all, not just themselves. Many of their desired goals would destroy the yrs of hard work millions of Americans have put into their lives, for their futures.

They need leaders with clear goals that are realistic. Right now they are running on the dollars of the very powers they are protesting.

Amen! (And no, I'm not a big 'ol church-going hypocrite - just thought the "Amen" was better than "I agree wholeheartedly with your position.")

This entire protest smacks of "me, me, me!" cloaked in "we, we, we!"

And, just for the record, I am a former Marine and a combat veteran. NO WAY would I dishonor my service by showing up to this protest in uniform. NEVER.

While I applaud their passion, these protesters need to found their arguments in logic rather than pure emotion. They are protesting against the very thing the want to be - a member of the "have" club.

reply to post by Boudicea



As a combat veteran was your war fought on pure logic? Was it not drilled into you to reach for raw emotion in order to complete missions? What combat have you seen? Do you go back to Vietnam?

reply to post by bluestar.ranch


What good is protesting going to do anyway. Never solves anything. Want to change things, get out there and make change happen.

Originally posted by VI0811
reply to post by bluestar.ranch

 

What good is protesting going to do anyway. Never solves anything. Want to change things, get out there and make change happen.

edit on 4-10-2011 by VI0811 because: (no reason given)

Original Thread

I can't believe the kind of response this Occupy Wall Street movement is garnering without any clear goals and such a vague message. I feel like it will either sputter out or do about as much good as the hippies did - not saying they didn't do a little - unless they define what they are looking to get done. This is sad because if Veterans decide to join up in number, the movement will` automatically gain a better image in the public eye (for the most part).

This is the support that is needed! Glad to see some real efforts in all these protests, Cheers from your canadian neighbours.

reply to post by ShogunAssassins
You really detract from presenting your case in any articulate manner when you misspell words and fail to use correct, or at least close to correct grammar

As your post reads, I am not able to tell exactly what you are saying, because some real NEEDED punctuation is missing. The only thing I know FOR SURE from reading this is that spelling is not your forte' and you aren't very hip to spell check either.

Not sure who you were calling a liar and/or a coward..... and honestly you lost me and lord knows how many other people that might have been willing to listen to your point of view.

If you want to be taken seriously as anything other than someone that *wants to crack heads* I would suggest learning about spell check. Grammar would be a plussie too.

reply to post by ShogunAssassins


Many Americans have already written the protestors off as socialists and/or communists based on the *fat cats* funding the protest and THEIR political ideologies and the list of demands the group has put forth. There are others still trying to figure it out and even others like myself that see something that has the potential for good, but isn't quite there yet.

I guess it depends on who the *we* are....if you are in fact socialists and communists, then you are absolutely correct... none of the Ron Paul supporters are FOR you. Nor will anyone in the country that doesn't share your views. Thank God it's a very small percent.

The choice the protest needs to make is do they want the general public, The People in this country behind them and standing WITH them, or..... against them

Just be honest about it and stand on your convictions. But don't try to belittle or bait us with old communist dribble.... Those of us old enough have heard it before, it makes no impact...just makes us shake our heads.

If this is your stance and your goal, to destroy this country, you won't be getting any help from us.

reply to post by bluestar.ranch


That is great to see that servicemen are supporting the people they are meant to protect. That is what we need to see from alot more people on the planet.

Good work guys you make us proud even here in Australia.

reply to post by Honor93
That's what I tell people...just use them for practice LOL

The interesting thing about debating an instigator is the more calm and confident you are, the longer you maintain decorum and refuse to place the bashing game and continue to support your argument with fact....the soon they end up frothing like a mad dog. Threats, name calling, baiting, belittling is all they have...when none of that works you get to see the REAL DEAL

Call me twisted but that gets my rocks off, making them froth like that

reply to post by Americanist

If I face an opponent I hope to place them in an emotional state. Anger?? All the better..the more pissed they are the less thinking going on. A non thinking opponent is my favorite....

Not military, just sayin