US Marines headed to WALLSTREET to protect protesters! THIS IS IT

Originally posted by Honor93

Originally posted by Observor
Wonder if the "equality" you seek is restricted to those within the boundaries of your country/region or across the globe. If the latter, you might think of first giving up your computer until everyone in the world can afford one. If the former, wonder what the justification is.

see, this is where the soup turns to mudd.
your equality of possessions/materialism doesn't compare to the individual equality humans seek.

you 'think' that because i have one, i must have bought it ... surprise, you'd be wrong.

it was given to me over a period of time in pieces. i earned (not bought) each of them and then taught myself how to assemble it and here i am. since then, i've done the same for another 8 ppl and other than time and energy (both still free resources) what did it cost me, the neighbor, the taxpayer or the govt ??? nothing.
i didn't contribute to the money machine, i saved space in the dump, i re-cycled what others perceived as trash and i helped my fellow man ... what have you done lately?

the statement: you don't deserve one unless you earn one, is a valid point.
no one is insisting you buy one ... but that is still a free mans' choice.
just because you cannot control or channel your envy should not be the responsibility of the next guy.

Are you sure you wanted to address me?

I am not the one rooting for "equality", I was challenging the one rooting for it.

But there is one thing of your post that I would like to address. It is about envy. Envy and greed are a pair of inseparable qualities. It is not possible to be envious unless one is greedy in the first place and envy is inevitable among the greedy have-nots. You can't promote one and not expect the other to rise equally. The "capitalist" system promotes greed unashamedly and so inevitably leads to envy among those who don't succeed. If greed is good, so is envy. If envy is bad and needs to be controlled, so should greed be.

reply to post by Cinaed


All this is is one giant mindflop in order to get the image of the people in their heads to think about. PseudoPsychological warfare. Hit the emotions and you'll cripple your target by turning them into a "sissy" which makes you the dominant one. Things are about to get a whole lot interesting.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


A mindflop? interesting term

This is why you see most of the older peeps posting very level headed, advising that cool heads need to prevail. The more the younger generation harps on violence is the way to bring change they lose another patriot to their cause.

I find it pretty sad and very naive for the young to think they can do this in any manner that benefits the whole of the people with the current attitude, it makes them appear to not be interested one fig in the benefit of the whole.....

In the process they are alienating the very numbers you are all crying for.... This seems more like sissiness to me....but what do I know, I watched the REAL change making protests. This is not it.

It may well become violent, in fact I'd say it likely will.... all this will prove is the protest was duped all along by the fat cats funding it

Usefull Idiots they call such peeps....In case you aren't aware, when TPTB have decided said useful idiots have fulfilled their purpose, most (in past situations)) receive a double tap to the back of the head. Even the Capitalists are just rounded up and locked up for *re education* useful idiots no longer deemed useful aren't even considered worth continuing to feed by such TPTB. History has proved this time and again

reply to post by Observor


This is the VERY reason we need to find a middle ground. Central control is not the answer, total de regulation isn't either.

The free market needs to be able to work without interference in a structured fair manner.

The rest is up to the motivation of the individual. Why should those who have not worked and scraped and sacrificed benefit from the labors of those who have and are?

I think most Americans want to help the down trodden. We don't want hungry un educated children. We also don't believ a flat screen TV, and IPhone, sporty car and a house are Human Rights.

Human nature being what it is, most peeps don't appreciate things they have not earned....

Rich people are not evil....crooked people are evil, rich and poor..... I have never had a poor person sign my paycheck..EVER

Those who hire and fire invest and risk their investment....who is going to do THAT with their assets if no profit is involved?

Fair and reasonable is where the balance exists, fair and reasonable laws not divying the whole pie between ALL.... Able bodied people should work and pay taxes yet MANY Americans pay no tax, even when it is taken out of their paychecks lots of them get it ALL back, some even more than they paid in...

It is the REST of the taxpayers carrying the load of every freeloader in our once great nation. How is that FAIR?

reply to post by Cinaed


Violence is not the answer as I don't think we are there yet. This is coming from a member of the Youth crowd. Being 31 I can clearly see the struggles.

These people have probally long since abandoned after trying to spend like 3 years plus is some cases not being able to qualify for a thing and not having one callback. I'm sorry but that kind of pressure will cause you to do some off the wall move.

The free market needs to be heavily regulated as clearly they are the problem and no interference will make 2008 look tame. They can no longer be trusted to handle the money. The nation is begining to lose it's confidence in the way the banks are treated and are infuriated and have reached their breaking point. When your hours get cut, when you must choose every month over paying the phone bill or putting food on the table. A mass majority of Americans are living that exact way as we speak. By midnight tonight about 500 families will be evicted by force or barred from their homes by no fault of their own. Just about every financial report puts the near everything across the board as down. Jobs are either lost, sent overseas or given to someone else at a lower pay. Banks are dreaming up new fees daily, restrictions on fees, mortgages, loans, investments, CD's, IRA's Roth's, 401k, bond, whatever. No interference directly caused 2008 and if interference would've been what is should've been then the entire crash wouldn't've happened, plain and simple. Instrumental and targeted campaign targeting every single item that Gov't put up just to do the very thing done by them time and time again. Nothing changes in that regard.

Production, manufacturing, infrastructure is all crumbling while we beef up tourist attractions with triple cheques.

Pressure will soon be on Government to make sure these creeps are tried, prosecuted, convicted and sentenced to the rest of their lives in jail.

This is explained in the manifest recently released.

As to mindfloop use your imagination to figure it out.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


The man offered you very sound advice...

He is also right in stating it is obvious you don't understand much about a legal protest. RAGE is not going to bring people in the numbers you all want to your cause.

You seem clear on who you perceive as your enemy.... perhaps you have simply under estimated THEM.

This protest has achieved becoming a PITA to cops and other authorities, if you can't see when they are playing you how can you hope to see victory?

I would also suggest looking at some old footage of the civil rights protest...watch the protestors being arrested....

I haven't watched much live feed but I have yet to seen any protestor get arrested that understood the power they hold in that moment.....fighting, cussing and struggling only hands the power over to the peeps holding the cuffs...

The power of passive resistance lies in the support of the people. When a movement gains the positive attention of fellow citizens big change happens. When the majority of the population see the protest openly breaking the law and then whining about the outcome....lots of the general public turn off their ears and figure they got what they deserved.

reply to post by LadySkadi


I don't know how this thing is going across the nation, but it does seem that the one in Greensboro, NC fell flat. They had a "planning meeting" on the 30th, but apparently word of the meeting didn't get out very well, and a lot of folks missed it. Whatever occurred, there seems to not be much information available in the clear as to where it's going.

There is a Facebook page for it, but that isn't "in the clear", especially in light of the recent problems with the exposure of FB tracking people. Several folks appear to be reluctant to sign in there, and so aren't getting whatever information is available. There have been complaints of using that as the organizational focus on that account. Evidently some folks don't want to be tracked, but I've not seen any indication of whether or not they've made the connection of WHO may be tracking them by the insistence on using that venue.

So then, at least one of these protests seems to be withering on the vine. If enough of them flounder, then the general uprising will flounder, and it will go the way of most of the protests since the civil rights era, just as you suggest.

Originally posted by Observor
Are you sure you wanted to address me?

I am not the one rooting for "equality", I was challenging the one rooting for it.

But there is one thing of your post that I would like to address. It is about envy. Envy and greed are a pair of inseparable qualities. It is not possible to be envious unless one is greedy in the first place and envy is inevitable among the greedy have-nots. You can't promote one and not expect the other to rise equally. The "capitalist" system promotes greed unashamedly and so inevitably leads to envy among those who don't succeed. If greed is good, so is envy. If envy is bad and needs to be controlled, so should greed be.

perhaps i misunderstood your statement ...

If the latter, you might think of first giving up your computer until everyone in the world can afford one. If the former, wonder what the justification is.

if someone else stated it, i apologize for my error.

however, i responded from your post.
the equality you used as an example (materialistic) isn't the same equality the human race deserves, defends or desires. (hopefully what you stated is not the equality these protesters are after but i have my doubts)

envy & greed inseparable ??? are you kidding me?
they certainly are separate and rampant at that.

envy is not defined as an expression of greed.
courtesy MWebster envy -- painful or resentful awareness of an advantage enjoyed by another joined with a desire to possess the same advantage

just because one is greedy, does not necessarily mean they are envious of anyone.
me thinks you do not understand either.

i am routing for equality, just a different breed.
i am questioning your reasoning and understanding of said equality.

the smith & jones complex does not involve greed or envy ... it is a competition.
(albeit not the healthiest of competitions but it is not driven by greed or envy or a combination of them)
humans compete ... they always have, they always will.

envy is its very own monster as is greed and they seldom travel hand in hand.

the capitalist system does no such thing.
America hasn't been a capitalist country in nearly 100yrs.
you are sadly confused or seriously misled.

fyi, quite a few 'have-nots' are quite happy with their status, some even choose such.
(no envy or greed involved)
it is juvenile at best for you to assume that every one who possesses little desires more.

some of us were brought up with "less IS more" concept ... ever think of that one?
and yes, i prefer the 'less IS more' outlook and i still believe the capitalist model has much to offer.

and for the record ~~ "SELF control" manages both envy and greed quite well when employed.
you should try it sometime

Originally posted by Cinaed
This is why you see most of the older peeps posting very level headed, advising that cool heads need to prevail. The more the younger generation harps on violence is the way to bring change they lose another patriot to their cause.

If the older generation knew exactly how to bring change, the younger generation wouldn't be out there protesting, because the change would already be there.

I find it pretty sad and very naive for the young to think they can do this in any manner that benefits the whole of the people with the current attitude, it makes them appear to not be interested one fig in the benefit of the whole.....

Evidently "the whole" doesn't consider them a part of it. Otherwise why would they have to be on the streets in the first place? When "the whole" is not concerned about them, why should they be concerned about "the whole"?

In the process they are alienating the very numbers you are all crying for.... This seems more like sissiness to me....but what do I know, I watched the REAL change making protests. This is not it.

Is that right? With so many knowing exactly what will bring the "REAL change" why is there no change? Perhaps because they are not interested in it? Well, those on the streets seem to be very much interested in change.

It may well become violent, in fact I'd say it likely will.... all this will prove is the protest was duped all along by the fat cats funding it

You seem to be really hoping for it. But it is not likely to happen.

These kids on the streets have little to lose, nothing to hope for the future and are well connected to each other. You can bet your last penny they will continue to break every law, not just regarding peaceful protests, but even those regarding the life and property of others until they get what they want or are completely broken psychologically and become recluse. They are starting off with peaceful protests only to prove to the older generation that every non-violent opportunity is available to them has been used up before taking to violence.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

I can appreciate what you are saying, and I know my area is not suffering nearly as bad as some areas, but I do have to ask... How many of the no call backs were for jobs some of the young feel are beneath them?

What I mean is I posted earlier, I just recently landed a good job. Alaska is not hurting so bad and I take this into consideration but still. I am 50, I have a few certifications but no degree. I have never attended more than a couple college classes. I never went to college.

I quit a job in Feb, by May I had a job that I didn't want, didn't like and paid crap, but I had a job. I kept looking and I traveled (before my kids grew up I did not have this luxury so I understand that too) July I had a better job. I downsized my overhead accordingly and didn't spend a dime I didn't need to and I had JUST enough to stay afloat. Then in Sept I got a call back from what is not only a very well paying job, but also one I enjoy VERY much.

I did many things I did not want to, to achieve what I did want...and it worked.

I have to wonder how many that are unemployed for sooooooooooooo long have been willing to do such things to get where they want to be, or.... if they have continued to only apply for things they feel worthy of and hope unemployment gets extended AGAIN?

I honestly don't know the answer to this. Based on lots of the comments made on this thread it sure seems like I have just nailed a huge part of the problem.

The current generation feels very entitled to much, yet have sacrificed the least. Someone posted earlier about how hard this generations grandparents had to work just to get by and MAYBE someday, buy a house.

For my generation college was something you did if your parents could affort it, but that wasn't the norm. Most students had to work and live on campus or roommate up and be very frugal. They relied on Scholarships and good high school grades to them open opportunity. In some families the oldest or the most level headed good student was sent to college and others were encouraged to *find a way*.

Everyone did lots of things they didn't want to do, often feeling it was beneath them...previous generations just all understood achieving MUCH was hard work. Once people had a good job or a decent house they were buying they REALLY appreciated them and took pretty good care to keep them.

We don't see much of that ethic today. I see teenagers that wont even bend over to pick up a money on the ground....Believe me I was floored when I picked up the money and asked why they hadn't. Answer: was only change, not worth bothering with. I see kids buy something and toss the change....like its trash... NO appreciation for the value of the dollar, perhaps this is why none of them care the dollar keeps being devalued.

I dunno I just hope some of these protestors will learn and do better in the future and I really do hope people that need work find it!

reply to post by Cinaed


I would love to know what advice that was and how can you claim to know how these people are acting when they are being arrested and at the same time admit you haven't watched any of the footage.

I haven't seen hardly anyone resisting or struggling. Given the size of these protests they have been amazingly peaceful. Yesterday when protestors realized the cops had trapped them on the bridge they all began to sit down and wait to be arrested.

You and the other poster are also very WRONG in your estimation of my knowledge of legal protest. I am aware of how to abide by it, but I don't believe in the rules set in place that outline a legal protest. A protest occurs in opposition to the regulation anyone that would think they could get anything done by following the governments guidelines to legal protesting are fools.

The laws for protests are of course to make them less effective. Do you think they would say "when trying to get your point across you should stand in the middle of the street so you demand attention" hell no. So guess what, that is exactly where you stand when you protest. Not on the third step of a welfare office with a laminated permit declaring you can legally be there from noon to midnight. I think maybe you need to take a look at those old protests videos honestly. Not that this is anything similar.. this is for something much bigger (whether the protest will ever actually reach the self awareness it is starving for is yet to be seen, but some of us no what it's about, while some that are standing in the middle of it remain clueless).

You guys are playing with a fools pair of dice, and you don't even know what the game is.

Originally posted by Honor93
however, i responded from your post.
the equality you used as an example (materialistic) isn't the same equality the human race deserves, defends or desires. (hopefully what you stated is not the equality these protesters are after but i have my doubts)

I was responding to someone who was referring to material wealth when talking of "equality". I was trying to point out the absurdity of it with my suggestions/questions.

envy & greed inseparable ??? are you kidding me?
they certainly are separate and rampant at that.

envy is not defined as an expression of greed.
courtesy MWebster envy -- painful or resentful awareness of an advantage enjoyed by another joined with a desire to possess the same advantage

just because one is greedy, does not necessarily mean they are envious of anyone.
me thinks you do not understand either.

I am neither greedy nor envious, so you are right I don't understand them from personal experience. However, I haven't met a greedy person who didn't envy those who had more nor a person who envied those who had more and wasn't greedy about getting the same. All the empirical evidence I have points to them being inseparable. I will wait for some counter examples from my personal experience before concluding to the contrary. Assertions from anonymous people on the internet won't suffice for me.

i am routing for equality, just a different breed.

Since I don't know what it is, I can't comment on that.

i am questioning your reasoning and understanding of said equality.

Why would I even pretend to understand something that hasn't been stated? I was addressing someone who was talking of equality in material possions. If you want to talk of a different kind of "equality" go right ahead and state what that is and if it appears worth responding to, I will. Until then it doesn't make sense for anyone to pretend that we are discussing some unstated concept merely because it has one common word with something else that has been explicitly stated.

the smith & jones complex does not involve greed or envy ... it is a competition.
(albeit not the healthiest of competitions but it is not driven by greed or envy or a combination of them)
humans compete ... they always have, they always will.

Never said anything to the contrary either.

envy is its very own monster as is greed and they seldom travel hand in hand.

Those who are greedy and fail to get what they want and see no hope of it, become envious of those who have. Alternately those who are envious of what others have become greedy for it. One quality leads to the other.

the capitalist system does no such thing.

The foundations of capitalism are that greed is good. It is not a bad idea to gain some knowledge instead of pronouncing on things you have no knowledge of.

America hasn't been a capitalist country in nearly 100yrs.

Never said anything about America being capitalist. But will say this now, the USA, capitalist or not, is a nation that worships greed and is ruled by it. So I am not surprised to find tremendous amount of envy as well.

you are sadly confused or seriously misled.

You were speaking to yourself there.

fyi, quite a few 'have-nots' are quite happy with their status, some even choose such.
(no envy or greed involved)

Sure. Never said otherwise.

it is juvenile at best for you to assume that every one who possesses little desires more.

Since I never assumed that nor said anything that can be construed as assuming such, you seem to have quite a fertile imagination and seem to dwell more in it than reality.

some of us were brought up with "less IS more" concept ... ever think of that one?
and yes, i prefer the 'less IS more' outlook and i still believe the capitalist model has much to offer.

OK. So you have an inconsistent set of beliefs. Not a problem for me.

and for the record ~~ "SELF control" manages both envy and greed quite well when employed.
you should try it sometime

Not sure why I need to employ anything to control qualities that I don't possess.

reply to post by Observor
There is a huge difference between change and perfection. No one is claiming we *fixed everything* in our generation, but if you think we didn't bring about change, you haven't read history. I was just a kid when students were shot on college campus and massive arrests were a common story on the news. There is no Jim Crow today, civil rights have REALLY changed from what it was like in the 50's and 60's. Ask any older black person that grew up in the deep south!

You seem to be expecting you can right all the wrongs in a few well placed protests and some carnage.... That is what I am hearing anyways. You don't sound to me like you especially care about what is right for the country, just for this small group that wants to RAGE against the machine, cuz it's cool?

Sorry but you lose me when you disregard the well being of your fellow American and endorse abusing and exploiting anyone not on the rampage with you..... while protesting injustice

reply to post by Observor

wow you actually said this ??

These kids on the streets have little to lose, nothing to hope for the future

nah, only their FREEDOM
(but that's not much eh? - regardless how diminished, it is not lost, yet)
only their self-respect by mooching to survive -
only their self-esteem or they'd be using their skills in their own communities currently, rather roaming the streets aimlessly -
only their legacy -- nah, not much at all.

as for their future - no one 'gives' hope, no govt 'grants' hope, protests don't promote "hope" and they sure don't guarantee it either.

Their future is what they make of it, not you or i or our children or our parents or our wallets.
They need to be (or learn to be) responsible for themselves ... pioneers if you will.

we had craftsman long before we had vocational schools. (production)
we had teachers loooong before we had a Dept of Education or student loans or a govt for that matter. (education)
we had a method of teaching ourselves when nature demanded it of us.
we had a desire to improve those which surround us.
we also had motivation to build up and enhance our surroundings rather destroy them.

and are well connected to each other.

fantastic, they have the basic skill of networking, now use it for a positive outcome instead of a violent one.

You can bet your last penny they will continue to break every law, not just regarding peaceful protests, but even those regarding the life and property of others until they get what they want or are completely broken psychologically and become recluse.

it sure is a shame to read you perceive those as the "only" options.
i knew a bunch of toddlers who behaved similarly and they seldom "got what they wanted".

for the most part i'm not a gambler, but if i had to place a bet, they would become targets in a shooting gallery cause if the PD didn't, American citizens would.

reply to post by Observor

I am neither greedy nor envious, so you are right I don't understand them from personal experience. However, I haven't met a greedy person who didn't envy those who had more nor a person who envied those who had more and wasn't greedy about getting the same. All the empirical evidence I have points to them being inseparable. I will wait for some counter examples from my personal experience before concluding to the contrary. Assertions from anonymous people on the internet won't suffice for me.

well, as for meeting someone who does not display those qualities simultaneously ... hello ... you've now met someone.

a good example of "envy" can be found in the driving force of the civil rights movement.
yes, some displayed greed but the driving force of the movement was envy ... one group desired the same advantage as another (equal rights)

greed is displayed when one covets the materialism of another.
greed is generally a driving force of one's own desire to acquire
(not necessarily steal from another)
ppl are not greedy for love, ppl are not greedy for forgiveness and ppl are not greedy for cooperation ... however, some ppl are envious of all the above.

envy can be a productive force, so can greed and they can be equally destructive. each in their own way. the control of either is internal not external.

if your "empirical evidence" truly reflects what you state, it is a clear observation that you live a rather sheltered life. now that you've met someone who is not greedy or envious (most of the time), i would suggest you get out more.

Originally posted by rogerstigers

Originally posted by v1rtu0s0
Hmmmm.... very skeptical about this "help"

They will "help" them "protest" by moving them away and into "free speech zones..."

As noted above, these are induvidual vetrans heading up there on their own volition.. not under any orders per se

They need intellectuals to support them, and the need to acknowledge these intellectuals. They need organisations, so individual marines are only going to make individual "zones", which isn't going to help really. The manifesto needs to be worked on, really worked on ... and things like outsourcing jobs, etc, be brought in there, instead of some "equal rights", stuff. This is about survival, not about mommy being able to go out and have fun too.

This needs to get ugly, you need a Boston Tea Party here ... you need people, to dress in common cloathes and be willing, and have the knowhow to turn this into a fight. And be willing to fight. You need more soldiers, in the hundreds, working together ... in civilian cloathes, standing near the front lines ...

If you want to get anything done, that is.

reply to post by Observor

wow, do you live close to d'Nile or what ?
you don't possess such qualities ... give us a break ... what are you, alien?
if you are not human you get a pass, otherwise, get a grip and clue while you're at it.
every human possesses such qualities, you may choose not to exhibit them but they certainly exist.

The foundations of capitalism are that greed is good. It is not a bad idea to gain some knowledge instead of pronouncing on things you have no knowledge of.

as has been stated before, greed is not all bad. it can be productive, it can motivate and it can lead to self-gratification, how is that bad?

Adults who succumb to their own greed and are driven by envy are the one's being protested, since that isn't me, how is it that you feel righteous in stating i don't know what i'm talking about?

what you describe is the tantrum of a toddler which may reflect components of both greed and envy but again you are describing the mentality of a child and they are supposed to be "learning" about such things ...

so, you perceive that i have "inconsistent beliefs" ?? ... then what exactly would be a consistent belief ?

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


I never stated I hadn't seen any footage, I honestly stated I haven't seen much. Most of my interest was in seeing if the cops were being decent or not. Believe it or not even the people disagreeing with your methods don't want anything to happen to the protestors. I was being honest in stating my visual about the arrests were limited, not none existent.

I think I know the game better than you realize, I am just trying to choose my words well

Either way I wont put anymore energy into trying to talk sense into you and I will wish you a long and prosperous life. If you live to be my age I hope you will remember the things you have been saying in this thread and and see the error in your views. Good luck

reply to post by Cinaed


I do congradulate you for being able to find another decent job as you in this case are a very small minority. In that regard since you are older it's easier for you to get a job because you've got experience. Nowadays to a 20 or 30something fresh out of a college with degree can't get a job as most have been getting jobs on who they know and not a piece of paper.

The struggle is hard. I just read a story while watching a vid on YouTube and a post by a single father who had to send his kid to live with relatives and sell his home because his job screwed them. This is the average story. This is fact. Reality!

Make no mistake but you are amongst The 99%.

Originally posted by gamesmaster63

You're correct, the Army doesn't issue dress blues.

Ah, but the Marines, Navy, and Air Force do, and he was a Marine vet talking.

I don't know what army you were in, but the US Army has had dress blues since 1957.

The new blue ASU, replacing the green service uniform and dress blues, introduced in 2008, is based on the dress blues.