WARNING: The Planet's Trees may be Dying!

reply to post by loam


The climate changes all the time. Cold hardy species will die off in warm periods and new species will rise up in its place. The earth has seen thousands of temp swings and guess what? Trees still exist. Animals still exist. We adapt to our environment with little effort. We will be here till the end of the earth. A temp swing is not the end of the earth. Its just a simple change.

It's snowing in the Smoky Mountains tonight. It's a little bit earlier than the norm, I guess. Because this is the time of year to drive through the mountains and enjoy the fall folliage. Of course, at Clingman's Dome, in this national park, the view had been marred for many years by the sight of dead trees up there.

I'm not a great gardener. My dad is, though. 87 years of experience, first growing up on a farm in Pennsylvania, then finally, after WWII, getting married and moving to another state in search of work, and always, and I mean always, each year without fail, putting in a great garden each year. And he's had, the last three years, had strange things happen to some of his crops. Things he can't explain and knows no solution for.

I was feeling ashamed last summer when he visited and I knew he was going to ask to see my garden. Because, if I don't grow some veggies and fruits, he gives me a bit of crap. He looked at my garden and I apologized to him for being a dolt, and he said, "Yes, I'm having the same problems with my maters and taters. I don't understand it."

I have taken to planting fruit trees and nut trees, mostly, instead of growing corn and tomatoes and potatoes. I'm pretty good at taking care of trees and berry bushes. And I'm having trouble getting some transplants to last through a season. And some of the ones that do live, don't thrive very well. Like my dwarf peach tree that self-polinates. I get a lot of fruit, but when it's time for them to be harvested, they no longer are sweet and juicy. Or, like last year, I saw that I should pick the fruit, but supposed that this could wait for three days while I drove to attend a family reunion. When I returned, all of the peaches were shrunken and dry.

That's my $.02

The trees are dying in Montana because there is an incredible amount of sulfur-dioxide emitting from the ground. That is signaling an incredible volcanic eruption which is causing the trees to die.


Truth?...I duno, maybe

reply to post by Doublemint


The earth IS changing, whether it's warmer, colder, more of this or that, progress happens. Taking a viewer only attitude sucks. Get involved in your community. See what makes it tick. And then help. We can't all take the worlds problems over but we can wirte to our Senators and Congressmen. BUT GET INVOLVED in your community. When is the lasy time you planted a fruit tree in your neighbor's yard? Better yet, your OWN yard?? DO SOMETHING

reply to post by loam


I can tell you, I'm here in Georgia, and several of the trees in the beginning of August were already turning colors...not many, just a few here and there, but I did find it odd. Now its October and they are already pretty much turned..but, whats odder, is that most of them, are not turning, the leaves are just falling.

reply to post by dug88


Dug you are spot on. I worked in forestry in the Kootenay Region of British Columbia (Radium Hot Springs). My job was specifically monitoring the progression of the mountain pine beetle, and try to limit its spread by placing pheromones on specific trees so that they would be lured to one specific tree, instead of spreading chaotically. This is a widespread problem that is consuming much of western North America.

Traditionally, as has been mentioned, forest fires would revitalize the forest, suppress pests and insects, and spawn the new generation of seedling trees. The forest industry, the harvesting of lumber, and the suppression of forest fires has set the natural cycle off balance. The forests (at least here in BC, so ill assume everywhere else too) are supposed to experience a giant wildfire every couple of centuries. This no longer happens.

The mountain pine beetle burrows itself into a tree. On the beetles carapace lives a fungi, this fungi causes the the pine trees to die in 3 years, to what would be the human equivalent of 'hardening of the arteries'. Initial burrowing, Year 1 - yellow foliage. Year 2 - red foliage. Year 3 - no foliage / death.

Make no mistake about it, Climate Change does occur, but it is not man made. The sun has been very active the last few decades. Certainly our human actions impact our environment, but this isnt caused because we burn fossil fuels. We couldnt even begin to compete with the amount of gasses the earth releases on a daily basis.

The best course of action is a wildfire which consumes the forests, it would be sad to see them burn, but it would be best for the overall health of the environment. Given the rate of expansion and death, this reality seems inevitable.

reply to post by Nkinga


Here in Texas the trees are either dead , on fire, or both.....it is bad dry this year.
2nd

OMG, we're all gonna die. The trees will all die and we will loose oxegen. OMG, we gonna all die. What should we do now OP? WE ARE DOOMMED. Doommed, i say. DOOMMED. REALLLLLLLY? he,he,he,he,he. You better practice up on your propaganda, you su#.

Originally posted by cloaked4u
OMG, we're all gonna die. The trees will all die and we will loose oxegen. OMG, we gonna all die. What should we do now OP? WE ARE DOOMMED. Doommed, i say. DOOMMED.

REALLLLLLLY? he,he,he,he,he. You better practice up on your propaganda, you su#.

You think that we can afford to lose trees? That this is just propaganda? We had some species die off and if trees start to do the same, we're going to be having some real difficulties. Something I learnt in school years ago. Didn't they teach you that?

this reminds of the story i heard a month or two back about english oak trees dying or having some sort of problem they do not know how to solve.

i will try and see if the storey is still about as it relates to this.

www.independent.co.uk...

hmmm it seems this goes ferther back than what my memory seems to remember, i am certain this problem was mentioned recently to, so it must still be an ongoing problem.

reply to post by loam


pfewt!!!!! I was in fear of opening this thread and reading about a fungus or disease killing off tree. Beetles and weather are not so bad, beetles can be exterminated and better weather hearty trees can be introduced to cooling climates.

We need less old growth forest and more new growth, so in a since this might be a blessing in disguise, as theres a list of issues that surround old growth from lack of other flora (under growth) , to its inability to support wildlife. Practice good forestry techniques and be hopeful that nature will restore its trees.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


Climate change is real.. ill agree with that, but thats about it. Look at our planet over 100 years, 500, 1000... we go through natural ups and downs.. as we spin on our axis we are closer, and farther from the sun.. along with that the sun is hotter and cooler at times... But. Given the past 100 years, alot has changed.. records have been broken.. 10x more earthquakes.. solar flares.. everything.. but I still think whats going on right now.. is a drastic change.. and I dont think climate change is responsible for it. What about all that radiation from fukishimo? Or anywhere else for that matter.. anyone thought of that? These trees were alive and green just weeks ago... seems a bit fast for climate change in my opinion.

Planet trees are not dying. Its pretty selfish to say if trees in America are dying, they are dying everywhere. Global warming also helps, people keep it negative. We just have to change too. Nature has balanced earth't climate. When warming comes, Gulf Current slows down, bringing ice age to northern hemisphere. Cold waters absorbs more carbon dioxide, as water turns ice, CO2 traps and waits there for second warm season.

In Siberia, warming helps trees grow up even more north than before. It has been calculated than Siberian forests can capture more CO2 than Amazon, so Siberian forests are truly world's lungs.

Problem is methane, its 30 times stronger greenhouse gas than Carbon Dioxide, but it just stays in atmosphere for 12 years. We might get very very warm season in future, like in middle ages, then we have to face extreme cold. During warm age in middle ages, you could settle Iceland and Greenland, it was so warm than you could grow something there. And after that mini-ice age came.

A case of blinders on as far as I can see. Here's an interesting fact

"
It requires 22 trees to produce the amount of oxygen consumed by one person. (An acre of trees produces enough oxygen for 18 people). This data comes from the Northwest Territories Forest Management site: forestmanagement.enr.gov.nt.ca... "

I think the most important part of all this is,we are the most endangered species in the world. I have always said if we took ourselves off the endangered species list the rest would follow. Regardless of the cause whether it is human related or natural or both, I think it's time to start finding solutions instead of wasting our time on stupid wars for religious BS and political and human differences. The question here is how do we achieve this?? Any ideas?

Originally posted by h3akalee
the story talks about beetles killing the trees.... So really this is a thread about a certain type of tree in a certain area of the United States being killed off by a certain type of beetle.

Hardly what the title suggests.

Take care.

Regards
Lee

Originally posted by Muckster
reply to post by juleol

 

Hmm... maybe you should do more research using sources other than Lord Monkton and Friends of Science... Both of which use a combination of half truths, lies and psudo science, while being funded by oil companies.

To be honest i am tired of arguing with people who are agenda driven... The accusation that is normally aimed at us, so called, "eco-nazis" is that we are trying to control the word and impose taxes to make money. However, if you do you maths you will find that there is far more money to be made in the big oil companies than there is in green technologies. Oil companies are worth trillions and they have pumped us full of their propaganda for the last 30 odd years. It is them who have the most to lose and they will not go without a fight.

I don’t want to go any further into this because it will probably drag this thread off topic... People are so blind, they look out their windows and see that their lawn is still green and think "what’s the problem?" It’s sad that it is only when it is directly affecting them that they start to believe it.

We are losing our coral reefs at an alarming rate due to ocean acidification, Amphibians, Birds, Mammals are all in decline... Insects and Bees are disappearing, trees and plants are suffering... Yet people still chose to ignore it... "oh it’s all natural" "it’s all part of the cycle" Blah blah blah

And the band played on...

I have actually read scientific papers of BOTH sides. Lord Monckton is NOT a scientist, but instead more of a Gore type of guy even though he is much more educated.

What you are doing is nothing more than parroting the propaganda you have read in mainstream news.
The temperature has indeed increased over last few decades, but that is not at all unusual if you look at the long term trend. 30 years is nothing more than weather even though warmists and politicians wants you to believe otherwise. Warming or cooling cycles can last for decades-centuries.
The only place where global warming is seen is in FLAWED computer models that can hardly predict anything.
We dont have all the puzzle pieces to simulate anything yet.

Also again how can you explain why co2 in most cases lag behind temperatures? Why can you have ice ages hitting with co2 many times higher than now? Why can you suddenly have "global warming" at a time when co2 is dropping like a rock?
The tiny effects from co2 wont be strong enough to counteract natural effects at all.

And you also ignored the part i said about earth growing greener over all. You also ignore facts that co2 is plant food that speed up growth. Just because trees are dying in one region dosent mean that this is the case everywhere. There is and will always be warming, cooling, drought, floods and so on. Climate was never static like some warmists wants you to believe.
Do you by the way even know that we are in a ice age now?? Having ice caps is not normal at all if you look at past history. Our planet is actually a dry desert planet compared to how it normally is. If it wasnt for the interglacial period we are in now we would starve to death and those interglacial last no longer than 10000 years on average, while the deep glacials last tens of thousands of years. We are now at the very end of this current interglacial based on average length and milankovich orbit configurations.

Edit: and oh yeah... if you did some research you would also see that the big oil companies actually often fund pro agw science, but i guess that isnt something you have read about in your beloved mainstream news eh?

My bet is that global temperatures will start dropping noticeable over the next 1-2 decades.

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
You should see it in parts of Washington state, and Oregon, and even in Idaho.

It's getting worse.

Ionized Radiation released from Washington State's nuclear sources is a path for high energy discharges from the Van Allen belt. As the ionized radiation cloud passes over forests, the trees are the nails providing the current path for discharge.

Washington's radiation problem is freckin nutz. Compounded by the Fukushima radiation passing over them is a perfect storm. Death.

reply to post by juleol


Ok... i shall address all the points from yuor previous post and address them individually...

If you actually bothered to do the research you would see that trees grow faster now and that the whole earth is actually more green thanks to increase in co2.

Yes... they may well do... so what?!?! We are destroying our forest at such a rate that any increase in growth doesn’t mean a thing!

Also, you may see a short term gain in that of plant growth, but this will eventually be negated by the resulting temperature changes.

And that’s not even taking into consideration the vast destruction of our forests caused by logging and agriculture.

The planet was also greener, had less deserts and such back when co2 was in thousands of ppm range and when planet was globally warmer/less cold.

Yep, millions of years ago when the planet was a completely different word with different plants, different creatures, all adapted to living in that particular environment. How do you think today’s species would do if they were suddenly dumped into a Triassic period environment??

Your comment is as silly as saying that its fine if the earth has an atmosphere made of mainly CO2 and temperature of 230oc because thats what it was during the Hadean period.

Climate changes always. Some areas get colder, some areas get more drought, other areas get warmer or wetter. This is just natural changes that has happened all throughout earths history.

Yes and it has often coincided with the extinction of creatures. This time it may be our turn and it may be by our own hand rather than natural causes. Also, this is one of the fastest changes ever recorded... life will struggle to adapt because of the speed of change.

Also co2 has very little to do with global temperatures and it is in fact temperatures that increase before co2 in MOST cases.

You are correct in that some graphs seem to suggest that temperature increases before CO2 but this is because those changes were natural cyclical changes and not related to CO2. However, find me some scientific evidence that shows that CO2 (and Methane for that matter) are NOT greenhouse gasses!

www.newscientist.com... -warming.html

“The lag proves that rising CO2 did not cause the initial warming as past ice ages ended, but it does not in any way contradict the idea that higher CO2 levels cause warming.
Sometimes a house gets warmer even when the central heating is turned off. Does this prove that its central heating does not work? Of course not. Perhaps it's a hot day outside, or the oven's been left on for hours”

Even when earth was warmer than now it wasnt hotter in regions that are hot today like equator. The difference was that there was hardly any difference between winter or summers and that it was also sub tropical and liveable even in arctic regions. Equator regions seems to have been even a bit less warm than today.

Again, you are talking about millions of years ago, when the planet was a very different place... Far more volcanic activity, completely different geographical layout (don’t forget Pangea) and due to this the earth had different weather patterns, Ocean currents, seasons, etc... Life had evolved to master that environment over millions of years. Life now is perfectly suited to our environment and when that environment changes suddenly what do you think will happen?

Wake up and do your own research instead of being a sheep that blindly trust mainstream media and politicians

I am wide awake, thank you very much.

Peace

reply to post by Muckster


I couldn't agree with you more. The mantra continues to be domesticate the savage, tame the wild, control the rivers, meddle in everything without identifying the consequences. I recently traveled up to Helena from Boise, Idaho, and saw the devastation, I grew up in timber country and what I saw made me sick at heart. Even here in
Boise (the City of Trees) the black walnut trees are all dying not from the bark beetles but from the virus they are carrying. IMO that people who don't care about the world are blinded by the desire to have everything they want.