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Of course the Old testament is going to support the OT Law, so what is the point of quoting from the OT?
YOUR POSITION DOESN'T MAKE BIBLICAL SENSE!
Originally posted by graphuto
The pattern for righteousness has been the same since the beginning: FOLLOW GOD'S COMMANDMENTS!
Don't see the relevance of this question.
What is sin? Disobedience to God.
Jesus next brings up a subject which is mentioned in the ten commandments, and says, , ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ in order to show how important it is, then shows how their practice nullifies the spirit of that law which is to love the ones who gave you your very life. So, another example of how Jesus used the Law of Moses to demonstrate the fundamental laws which it was based on, which is the law we are promised that is the New Covenant, a spiritual law.
He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.
This points out the difference between the old, written Law, and the new, spiritual Law of the New Covenant. The spiritual law is more strict concerning the treatment of others, which is possible because it comes with the change of heart possible through the agency of Jesus to send the Holy Spirit to us.
But Jesus said to them, “ Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment.
This is the story of the rich young man who came to Jesus, apparently wanting a list of things to do, and Jesus is essentially saying, “If you want a list, you already have a really big one you can look at, and then shows the young man that there is a fundamental law beyond that list which he needed to follow. Since he had not yet received the Holy Spirit which Jesus went to Heaven to send back to us, he was not ready to accept the spiritual law.
You know the commandments, ‘ DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.’”
Where Jesus is asked specifically about the Law of Moses and gives an answer from it but not one which we would normally think of as a commandment but a saying which Jesus saw as a written expression of what the spiritual law was all about. Then the person who asked the question responded to the answer in a way that showed he understood the concept of a fundamental law, Jesus said, You are not far from the Kingdom, which is the person was at that moment ready to step into the Kingdom of God which Jesus came to announce the presence of.
One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?”
Again, Jesus was asked specifically about what he thought was the important commandments in the Law of Moses, so he answered accordingly, in a manner which emphasized the fundamental spiritual law behind it.
The second is this, ‘ YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
It mentions the commandments which back then would likely mean the Law of Moses, which was still in effect up to the time of Jesus' crucifixion. It also says, requirements, which seems to be something beyond just the commandments, which could mean that they were spiritual persons who had true love, and did not just act out the formalities.
They were both righteous in the sight of God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and requirements of the Lord.
This is essentially the same story as the one in Mark 7, which I answered above.
You know the commandments, ‘ DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.’”
There is a place in the NT which describes the weight of all the stuff they had to use for the embalming, which would have caused a problem since there was a restriction on carrying burdens on the Sabbath.
Then they returned and prepared spices and perfumes. And on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.
These are just verses that have the word, commandment in them, but has nothing to do with the Law of Moses. Some are the commandments that Jesus gave which is what he meant when he said the this law will not pass away.
John 10:18, John 12:49, John 12:50, John 13:34, John 14:15, John 14:21, John 15:10, John 15:12
Paul points out the Law of Moses gave death, which he summarizes by saying that it is good in that it makes you realize you need to find something better, so as not to die.
But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.
I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died;
and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me;
for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.
So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.
Paul is reiterating what Jesus had pointed out earlier.
For this, “ YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “ YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”
This is just another verse that has the word, commandment in it but is not about the law of Moses.
but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;
The new commandments of Jesus are important, not the old commandments from Moses.
1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.
23 For the commandment is a lamp and the teaching is light;
And reproofs for discipline are the way of life
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his.
6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—
7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.
9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.
13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness.
14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
How did it all of a sudden switch from The Law of Moses, to the Ten Commandments?
Originally posted by graphuto
I don't deny the existence of the New Covenant. I'm saying that it doesn't give us free reign to break the 10 commandments.
This statement you made earlier,
Originally posted by graphuto
Eh, I was never really talking about the law of Moses. I am talking about the law of God as patterned from the beginning...
So what exactly do we disagree on?
I say, no. There was an OT law, patterned after, in part, a more basic spiritual principle, on which Jesus pointed out and we understand now, that Jesus became our representative in Heaven so that we can share in the good things of God, as in the Holy Spirit, though we are not holy in ourselves.
Jmdewey, how can you just ignore all the proof that OT law is to be followed today?
Originally posted by Jordan River
Originally posted by Amanda5
Hello - I am interested in your post because I need to learn more about the Bible. My understanding is that the Dead Sea Scrolls form the basis of what we know to be our Bible - albeit in many versions. Recently I have learned that the Bible had several sections removed/omitted such as the Book of Enoch.
Is what you present here part of the Bible we know or does it represent the omissions?
Thank you. Much Peace...
Many books were omitted due to hearsay (Gnostics mainly) and other stories were deemed fake/forged. The bible you have (the standard bible) this work was created through many early church farthers and other pious people. Do not let anyone tell you that the nicean council created the bible, that is a misconception. IT took a few centuries to create the New testament.
the truth of the matter is that the first official claiming of a complete New testmament was around 367 ce. from a powerful bishop of alexandria "athanasius. So you could probably guess sometime around 200 adish
Did you know that the Catholic bible have more books in it than a reformer?
That being said these claimed "forged and fake" books were omitted. But the books paint a great picture of Christ early years, and even a epic tale of Jesus going to hell for 3 days "before resurrection" Probably my favorite.
These are the christian apocrypha which I recommend reading first.