The Morality Of Saving People From Hell

Originally posted by Ashira

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Ashira

People should only believe what they have experienced themselves

You're claiming that you experienced Jesus resurrecting Lazarus? That's a bold claim and I'll need some evidence to believe such a thing

If You want to experience it just ask and I'll ask the Lord to help You, the only proof that people seem to listen to(me included) is experience.

I have tried that several times and it never works.
Now what?

Originally posted by redstorm

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
It's essential in Christianity for you to believe that, otherwise when the heros of the bible come along they don't look quite as special. It's a bad literary device.

Isn't really what I was asking but, yeah. They're just stories anyways.

Originally posted by Ashira
He didn't, He gave man freewill, man walks where He wants to even if He's been blinded.

No offense but to me, this is an irrelevant answer, or rather, I just don't understand what you were saying/meant by it.

reply to post by paxnatus

 

Yeah. Maybe. I don't really know of all that. Thanks for the reply though.

edit on 4-10-2011 by redstorm because: (no reason given)

The Lord not didn't just give man freewill He also gave "Angels" freewill, some of the "Angels" rebelled and tricked man (and still is) into doing the same.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Ashira

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Ashira

People should only believe what they have experienced themselves

You're claiming that you experienced Jesus resurrecting Lazarus? That's a bold claim and I'll need some evidence to believe such a thing

If You want to experience it just ask and I'll ask the Lord to help You, the only proof that people seem to listen to(me included) is experience.

I have tried that several times and it never works.
Now what?

Patience.

Originally posted by paxnatus


...As a believer it is our highest calling that we share the Gospel with a non believer. Simply put, we share what we believe and why. It is not my job to save anyone. Once you hear the Gospel it is between you and God.

People today inevitably think that hell works like this: God gives us time, but if we haven't made the right choices by the end of our lives, he casts our souls into hell for all eternity. As the poor souls fall through space they cry out for mercy, but God says "Too late! You had your chance! Now you will suffer!" This caricature misunderstands the very nature of evil. The Biblical picture is that sin separates us from the presence of God, which is the source of all joy and all love, wisdom or good things of any sort. Since we were originally created for God's immediate presence, only before his face will we thrive, flourish and achieve our highest potential. If we were to lose his presence totally, that would be hell.....the loss of our capability for giving or receiving love or joy.

But back to your question it is neither immoral or unethical to share with another what one believes. It stops there.

Kindly,
Pax

Pax,
Love explanation! And to reply about the morality of praying to save souls from Hell. Our Lord has said it over and over...for so long...

Hardened souls will not find The Warning easy

Friday 30 September 2011 21.15 hours

My dearly beloved daughter my task to convert souls increases now in its intensity.

Please warn as many as you can to prepare their souls before The Warning.

Inform all those priests, nuns, Bishops and other denominations who believe in My Eternal Father to listen to My word. So many of My children are in such darkness that the light of My divine glory will hurt their souls. They will feel real pain because they will not be able to withstand this great act of My mercy.

Some people smile in amusement at these Holy messages. This makes me sad. Not because they do not believe that I speak to them in this way but because they don’t want to believe in Me. For all of you who are worried about your loved ones please pray that the purification facing them during The Warning will bring finally into My heart.

I ask that all My followers now protect themselves from Satan. They must sprinkle every corner of their home with Holy Water, wear a Benedictine cross and keep Rosary beads close. Pray also to St Michael the Archangel. Satan and his army of followers will do everything to convince you that it is not I who speaks. Satan and his demons will start tormenting you and placing terrible doubts in your minds. You, My children, can stop him by following My instructions. Sadly, he will twist the minds of weak souls into complete rejection of Me.

Hardened souls will not find The Warning easy. They will argue about the way they have offended Me. Even the burning fires of Hell which they will experience during The Warning will not wipe away all the doubts of My existence.

Many will spread lies about The Warning after it takes place. They, the heathen, who are slaves to Satan will create a lie which they will spread everywhere. Scientific arguments will be put forward to explain away the event. They do not want to hear the truth. They must be prayed for. So strong has the grip of Satan taken a hold over the world that My name will not be muttered in public. Discussion of My existence on earth is seen to be an embarrassing topic of conversation.

My name today is used mainly through the use of bad language or worse by the slip of the tongue when cursing. But hear Me now. My name will be heard and accepted once more after The Warning by those who will convert. Then My name will be used when they My children pray to Me.

Your beloved Jesus


www.thewarningsecondcoming.com...

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Ashira

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Ashira

People should only believe what they have experienced themselves

You're claiming that you experienced Jesus resurrecting Lazarus? That's a bold claim and I'll need some evidence to believe such a thing

If You want to experience it just ask and I'll ask the Lord to help You, the only proof that people seem to listen to(me included) is experience.

I have tried that several times and it never works.
Now what?

Ashira, no offense, but why do you feel the need to be an intercessor for anyone that is the Holy Spirits job. It is true we tend to base our beliefs on what we experience.

Traditional Drummer: If you want to know God, then ask Him to reveal Himself to you in a very real way. But when you ask, you yourself must believe He will, and He will. That is faith. Then it is up to you to continue the search for truth. Ask God for wisdom and discernment on your journey and He will guide you. But you must also open your heart to hear Him.

Pax

Originally posted by paxnatus
...As a believer it is our highest calling that we share the Gospel with a non believer. Simply put, we share what we believe and why. It is not my job to save anyone. Once you hear the Gospel it is between you and God.

People today inevitably think that hell works like this: God gives us time, but if we haven't made the right choices by the end of our lives, he casts our souls into hell for all eternity. As the poor souls fall through space they cry out for mercy, but God says "Too late! You had your chance! Now you will suffer!" This caricature misunderstands the very nature of evil. The Biblical picture is that sin separates us from the presence of God, which is the source of all joy and all love, wisdom or good things of any sort. Since we were originally created for God's immediate presence, only before his face will we thrive, flourish and achieve our highest potential. If we were to lose his presence totally, that would be hell.....the loss of our capability for giving or receiving love or joy.

But back to your question it is neither immoral or unethical to share with another what one believes. It stops there.

Kindly,
Pax

Great witness Pax. How many times does Our Lord have to say, pray? A recent prophecy mentions it twice.
Prayers for disbelieving loved ones and people we don't know, God can send them the grace, hopefully
for a change of heart to save them from Hell.

www.thewarningsecondcoming.com...

Originally posted by paxnatus

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Ashira

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Ashira

People should only believe what they have experienced themselves

You're claiming that you experienced Jesus resurrecting Lazarus? That's a bold claim and I'll need some evidence to believe such a thing

If You want to experience it just ask and I'll ask the Lord to help You, the only proof that people seem to listen to(me included) is experience.

I have tried that several times and it never works.
Now what?

Ashira, no offense, but why do you feel the need to be an intercessor for anyone that is the Holy Spirits job. It is true we tend to base our beliefs on what we experience.

Traditional Drummer: If you want to know God, then ask Him to reveal Himself to you in a very real way. But when you ask, you yourself must believe He will, and He will. That is faith. Then it is up to you to continue the search for truth. Ask God for wisdom and discernment on your journey and He will guide you. But you must also open your heart to hear Him.

Pax

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17


What better way is there to hear the Word than to be crucified with Him?:


32And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death.

33And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.

34Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

35And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

36And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar,

37And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.

38And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

39And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

40But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

42And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. Luke 23

Originally posted by paxnatus
Traditional Drummer: If you want to know God, then ask Him to reveal Himself to you in a very real way. But when you ask, you yourself must believe He will, and He will. That is faith. Then it is up to you to continue the search for truth. Ask God for wisdom and discernment on your journey and He will guide you. But you must also open your heart to hear Him.

Pax

Well, that's what I'm saying. I have tried that several times and at various points in my life. It simply doesn't work. Often I'm told it's somehow my own fault: I wasn't sincere enough, didn't have enough faith, etc. Balderdash, I say. Something that exists and desires our attention should not be so incredibly difficult to detect.

Originally posted by colbe
Your beloved Jesus


www.thewarningsecondcoming.com...

I didn't know you could forge Jesus' name on a poorly written religious fantasy and have people take you seriously. It seems the Jesus fanatics are starved for new material.

Originally posted by Ashira
Patience.

I have a better idea. Instead of again trying a method that has consistently failed, how about you demonstrate that your deity actually exists. Is that something you can do?

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by paxnatus
Traditional Drummer: If you want to know God, then ask Him to reveal Himself to you in a very real way. But when you ask, you yourself must believe He will, and He will. That is faith. Then it is up to you to continue the search for truth. Ask God for wisdom and discernment on your journey and He will guide you. But you must also open your heart to hear Him.

Pax

Well, that's what I'm saying. I have tried that several times and at various points in my life. It simply doesn't work. Often I'm told it's somehow my own fault: I wasn't sincere enough, didn't have enough faith, etc. Balderdash, I say. Something that exists and desires our attention should not be so incredibly difficult to detect.

If You read Luke 23:32-43 posted above You'll see that the Lord speaks constantly to everyone but some don't hear Him, the two that were on the cross beside Him could both hear His voice but only one of them "heard" Him.


Matthew 16

1The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.

2He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.

3And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

4A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Ashira
Patience.

I have a better idea. Instead of again trying a method that has consistently failed, how about you demonstrate that your deity actually exists. Is that something you can do?

He that has ears to hear let Him hear.

Originally posted by Ashira


If You read Luke 23:32-43 posted above You'll see that the Lord speaks constantly to everyone but some don't hear Him, the two that were on the cross beside Him could both hear His voice but only one of them "heard" Him.

We are going in circles.

Firstly, why should I believe anything in the Bible?
Secondly, this is simply a convenient excuse to explain away the people who rightfully reject unestablished claims.

Morality of saving people from hell doesn't exist.

talking about awareness.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Ashira


If You read Luke 23:32-43 posted above You'll see that the Lord speaks constantly to everyone but some don't hear Him, the two that were on the cross beside Him could both hear His voice but only one of them "heard" Him.

We are going in circles.

Firstly, why should I believe anything in the Bible?
Secondly, this is simply a convenient excuse to explain away the people who rightfully reject unestablished claims.

12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Matthew 13

I asked the Lord: "Why do You say people have to believe in You in John 3:16 and not just know?" He said: "Because if they don't want to believe that that man I sent to save them is My Son and was unjustly crucified then they are not fit to enter into Heaven, they have no sympathy, they have no love, they would turn Heaven into hell."

Originally posted by Ashira

12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

Quoting the bible is not going to get you anywhere.

You have not given me any reason why I should believe it.

I think there are different ways to preach, some can preach directly and enthusiastically, some more spiritually.

Personally I go for the show a good example method, just be kind and thoughtful, and if the the topic arises then discuss.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Ashira

12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

Quoting the bible is not going to get you anywhere.

You have not given me any reason why I should believe it.

You quote mined this out from the bottom of the post above:

I asked the Lord: "Why do You say people have to believe in You in John 3:16 and not just know?" He said: "Because if they don't want to believe that that man I sent to save them is My Son and was unjustly crucified then they are not fit to enter into Heaven, they have no sympathy, they have no love, they would turn Heaven into hell."

Originally posted by Ashira
You quote mined this out from the bottom of the post above:

I'm going to be blunt since despite my repeated inquiries you constantly avoid the question:

Why should I believe anything in the bible?