The Morality Of Saving People From Hell

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
Its the idea of what God is that makes it unbelievable. God is what is unknown and beyond us

Thank you for sharing your belief.

My unknown is not called god.

Shadow Herder is beyond me and it is unknown to me what his last meal was. .

Jalepeno poppers. Yum

Some of the divine laws regulate the movements and relations of inert matter; they are termed physical laws, and their study is the domain of science, others of these laws concern man, as considered in himself and in his relations to God and to his fellow-creatures they are termed moral laws, and regulate the life of relation as well as the life of the soul.


All the laws of nature are divine laws, since God is the author of all things. The seeker after science studies the laws of nature in the realm of matter; the seeker after goodness studies them in the soul, and practices them.


Where is the law of God inscribed? "In the conscience."

reply to post by traditionaldrummer

I'm afraid the evidence you've presented for Christ isn't particularly compelling. Why do you believe the things in the bible? Why should someone else believe the things in the bible?

You know that no-one can force you to believe, if you choose not to. No-one can argue you into the Kingdom. That is what free-will is. If, and that's a big If- you really want to know, I would suggest that you take it up with your Creator. He is most likely the only one that can answer your questions satisfactorily.

reply to post by Shadow Herder

I sense that you read to much about the same topics over and over. I sense you look down on just about everyone but feel justified in your pride because it stems from "righteousness".

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

As I mentioned before, there is no hell. It is a creation of the mind. Fictional place.

Shadow Herder,

I believe I disagree with an overwhelming majority of your assertions and ideas, but I am going to give you credit where it is due.

I think that what you have typed above is the most moral and ethical action anyone could do. To encourage someone to free themselves from a self-manufactured fear is admirable.

I'll say it again, I think you're talkin' a lot of moosewash in this thread but what you've typed here should be applauded with standing ovation.

Originally posted by MarkJS
You know that no-one can force you to believe, if you choose not to. No-one can argue you into the Kingdom. That is what free-will is. If, and that's a big If- you really want to know, I would suggest that you take it up with your Creator. He is most likely the only one that can answer your questions satisfactorily.

But I have no reason to believe the bible, or that there is a creator, or that there is a Kingdom. Those are all just claims in a book. We can't see any creators or kingdoms. Why should I believe the book?

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

Whatever you call it is up to you and you're welcome to it.

some people have been trying to understand that unknown since the dawn of man.

It does make a difference what it is called.

I have had this god/force discussion for many years. The reason it makes a difference is - - - any mention of the word/label god - - no matter the context - - believers will jump on it and insist you can't not believe in god. Therefore there is no such thing as Atheist.

I am Atheist. I do not believe in a deity/god - - - whether known or unknown.

The unknown is the unknown. Simple. We learn more about the unknown as science evolves.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Same with "eternal salvation". As it stands now, there's really no good reason to believe in any of those things.

There's better reason not to.

I have a serious problem with living for a reward at the end - - and/or - - being good to appease a mythical promise.

Your response is very indicative of someone who was raised Mormon that now rejects the faith. May I recommend trying to forget everything you were taught about God and the Bible and try reading a non Mormon translation. My personal favorite is NLT, with footnotes for every verse that has different possible translations from the Greek Manuscripts available at the bottom. So you know the translators had no agenda but translating the original Greek manuscripts that date from 125-250 AD.

God never instructs you to live a sin free life for him. Jesus actually tells you that it would be impossible for anyone to try this on their own. Jesus promises 2 miracles to all that understand him, and yes you do have to know the entire word to understand, Glory and the Holy Spirit.

Glory- forgiveness for all sins without regard to the nature or extent one has sinned.
Holy Spirit-A part of God that can overpower your own desires so that you may overcome sin.

I know that these 2 miracles have happened for me and have changed my life. My whole life everyone considered me a good person but it wasn’t until I listened to the entire word that I felt God in me.

I have a six year old and I explain it to her this way. God is love, without God one could not love. So when she is displaying bad behavior I pick her up, hug her and tell her to listen to her love, sometimes kicking and screaming. At six years old she understands that God is the love part in her and anything that is against love is Satan. Almost every time she immediately lets Love, God, take away Satan’s power.

So I tell all of you listen to your Love. Even non believers are filled with love by the glory of God.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


After the kings of the earth edited and perverted the ancient gospels I dont blame intelligent man for denying the idea of popular religion.

Makes me wonder why the kings of the earth would omit certain gospels altogether. We are getting mans take on God and ancient mans view at that. This is why religion is getting a lot of scrutiny

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

Whatever you call it is up to you and you're welcome to it.

some people have been trying to understand that unknown since the dawn of man.

I am Atheist. I do not believe in a deity/god - - - whether known or unknown.

The unknown is the unknown. Simple. We learn more about the unknown as science evolves.

I am sad and glad to say that one day you will have a religious experience. The answers you seek will furnish themselves to you in the form of experience. It need not you believe in anything. Its your life. I hope its good. It doesnt sound like its too rocking but that just my senses again.

reply to post by Shadow Herder
[are you referring to Constantine? When you say kings of the earth?

Originally posted by FloatingGhost
reply to post by Shadow Herder
[are you referring to Constantine? When you say kings of the earth?

The irony. Your Yoda quote in your signature " Fear leads to anger, anger to hate, suffering..." is a lifted from the bible according to some sources.

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear. – 1 John 4:18 NKJV

If we love each other, as Jesus loves us, we could be ourselves without fear. We could express ourselves without fear. We could live our lives with an abiding sense of acceptance and security.

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

After the kings of the earth edited and perverted the ancient gospels I dont blame intelligent man for denying the idea of popular religion.

Makes me wonder why the kings of the earth would omit certain gospels altogether. We are getting mans take on God and ancient mans view at that. This is why religion is getting a lot of scrutiny

If I wrote a book that said the earth is flat should we include it in today's science books. Books that were according to you left out simply did not pass the test as being authentic to the gospel of Jesus.

The Old Testament predates Christ and can be verified that it has not changed in over 2000 years. For nearly all the books and letters from the New Testament we have found evidence to their existence from 125 AD to 250 AD. Again these have not been changed for over 1700 years. We also know that the cannoning of the New Testament was widely accepted by the new church. Wouldn't you think that we would see some major opposition if someone of that time thought something was left out?

If one can believe in God why is it so hard to believe that he would not preserve the story of his life and creation as he intended it to be preserved? Why does everyone make God so small? God created everything, yet we refuse to give him credit for preserving a perfect book. He also made it the most widely translated, widely published, most read book in history. No other book can make this claim. My God is big enough to have accomplished this small miracle. After all I give him credit for the creation of the universe and all life in it.

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Same with "eternal salvation". As it stands now, there's really no good reason to believe in any of those things.

There's better reason not to.

I have a serious problem with living for a reward at the end - - and/or - - being good to appease a mythical promise.

Your response is very indicative of someone who was raised Mormon that now rejects the faith.

I was not raised Mormon.

You really need to quit grabbing assumptions when they "fit" your projected purpose.

This explanation will no doubt be objected to, on the ground that it is in contradiction with the statements of the Bible; but a careful examination of those statements shows us that this contradiction is more apparent than real, and that it results from the interpretation which has been given to expressions whose meaning is allegorical rather than historical. The question of the personality of Adam, regarded as the first man, and sole progenitor of the human race, is not the only one in regard to which the religious convictions of the world have necessarily undergone modification. The hypothesis of the rotation of the earth round the sun appeared, at one time, to be in such utter opposition to the letter of the Bible, that every species of persecution was directed against it, and against those who advocated it. Yet the earth continued to move on in its orbit in defiance of anathemas; and no one, at the present day, could contest the fact of its movement without doing violence to his own powers of reasoning.


The Bible also tells us that the world was created in six days, and fixes the epoch of this creation at about 4000 years before the Christian era. Previously to that period the earth did not exist. At that period it was produced out of nothing. Such is the formal declaration of the sacred text, yet science, positive, inexorable steps in with proof to the contrary. The history of the formation of the globe is written in indestructible characters in the worlds of fossils, proving beyond the possibility of denial that the six days of the creation are successive periods, each of which may have been of millions of ages.

This is not a mere matter of statement or of opinion. It is a fact as incontestably certain as is the motion of the earth, and one that theology itself can no longer refuse to admit, although this admission furnishes another example of the errors into which we are led by attributing literal truth to language which is often of a figurative nature. Are we therefore to conclude that the Bible is a mere tissue of errors? No; but we must admit that men have erred in their method of interpreting it.more

reply to post by Shadow Herder


I've no problem if the YODA quote is from the bible. Very much worth reading the bible. I can say without hesitation that it full of knowledge, history, poetry and much more. Would not discourage anyone from reading it!! However, I've no knowledge of that quote in the bible...not verbatim anyway. I feel fear...certainly...fear is an instinctive feeling to help us survive. I live with no spiritual fear. No fear for my eternal soul should I have one. And I'm open to the possibility of having one!

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

Whatever you call it is up to you and you're welcome to it.

some people have been trying to understand that unknown since the dawn of man.

I am Atheist. I do not believe in a deity/god - - - whether known or unknown.

The unknown is the unknown. Simple. We learn more about the unknown as science evolves.

I am sad and glad to say that one day you will have a religious experience.

I am 65. I was raised Christian - - I spent most of my life as a believer in search of what god belief was right for me.

I had OBE's and other experiences since birth. My mom's best friend came from a family of psychics. My mom belonged to a group in the 50s called the Mental shop - - about UFOs and other super natural stuff.

What other experiences do you think I need?

Originally posted by Annee
I am 65. I was raised Christian - - I spent most of my life as a believer in search of what god belief was right for me.

I had OBE's and other experiences since birth. My mom's best friend came from a family of psychics. My mom belonged to a group in the 50s called the Mental shop - - about UFOs and other super natural stuff.

What other experiences do you think I need?

WTH??? You just said

I am Atheist. I do not believe in a deity/god - - - whether known or unknown.

The unknown is the unknown. Simple. We learn more about the unknown as science evolves.

Which one is it? Are you saying that you were raised around religious/ufo/ and "other supernatural stuff" and became an atheist or you just believe in all the stuff but just not in a god?

reply to post by Annee


My apologies for the misunderstanding. I sincerely hope I have not offended you. But based on what your comment I would still make the same recommendation.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer

But I have no reason to believe the bible, or that there is a creator, or that there is a Kingdom. Those are all just claims in a book. We can't see any creators or kingdoms. Why should I believe the book?

Your question was acknowleged and answered. I'm not trying to sound uppity or anything. Please refer to my previous post. Ask, ask, then ask again, if necessary. God will answer, if you're sincere.

'And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.’