What made you first suspect that these 9/11 conspiracy stories were false?

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

All the clues are there to explain what happened, and I know you're not stupid and you are certainly capable of deducing what happened on your own if you would only apply critical analysis. The problem is that you're trying to convince yourself something *else* is true so you willing choose not to.

FYI there is a new thread discussing recent revelations on the anthrax attacks. Maybe you could offer your 'critical analysis' there.

I think you'll avoid the discussion just like CaptainObvious did back in day. Keep up the fight for truth.

I could only assume the stories were from disinformation agents paid to make the truthers look stupid. Nobody could imagine such outlandish plots. It had to be a plan to discredit those who sought the truth. No, I don't pretend to know the truth. Looks like an inside job.

Originally posted by psikeyhackr
Why can't they build a self supporting model that can completely collapse? They will look pretty silly if they try and can't do it after TEN YEARS.

There have been computer models, such as the one created by NIST, but the truthers steadfastly refuse to believe the integrity of the study on the grounds that NIST engineers are all secret agents, so I have no doubt the truthers would steadfastly refuse to believe any OTHER study that doesn't conform to what they themselves want to believe.

I have a better solution. What say the truthers describe in precise detail exactly how controlled demolitions brought down the towers? Richard Gage has the blueprints, the armies of Youtubers have five miles of video footage showing the exact physical procession of the collapse, Steven Jones has the exact chemical formula of the explosives used, and AE911truth has a petition of a thousand experts whose professional experiences are in these very fields. It would only take you a month to calculate out exactly where the explosives were planted and how much would it would take to bring the buildings down.

Why have you waited ten years and done nothing except waste our time arguing over stories about cruise missiles at the Pentagon?

Originally posted by infinityoreilly
FYI there is a new thread discussing recent revelations on the anthrax attacks. Maybe you could offer your 'critical analysis' there.

I think you'll avoid the discussion just like CaptainObvious did back in day.

I'm not avoiding it. I have nothing useful to add to the discussion one way or the other.

Truther= "If you can provide me with proof that it happened this way , hard proof then I could believe it"

Other guy= " Well this study suggest, and shows......"

Truther= " they are all government agents covering it up you cant trust them"


and so this twisted circular argument goes on and on and on.........

darned if you do and darned if you dont, so i just chose usually, not to be involved in it.......

Originally posted by earthdude
I could only assume the stories were from disinformation agents paid to make the truthers look stupid. Nobody could imagine such outlandish plots. It had to be a plan to discredit those who sought the truth. No, I don't pretend to know the truth. Looks like an inside job.

Earthdude, it has been suggested that I am a disinformation agent getting paid to believe the actual events. It is very easy to accuse anyone of anything in this day and age and there will always be "proof" that people like me are paid.

The problem is this, the suggestions are made by conspiracy theorists. When I ask questions about the conspiracy theories themselves, there is a general trend to make up another theory. And if a theory is proven to be nothing more than a theory, what does that say about the theorist?

And isn't the purpose of conspiracy theorism designed to discredit everything about the official story of the actual events? Dylan Avery, Richard Gage and Michael Moore are disinformation agents to discredit the actual events, the conspiracy theories began with theorists, not the other way around.

If the conspiracy theorists have resorted to false information, editing truth out of statements, deliberate misleading of people who listen to them and creating falsehoods designed to sell DVDs, then what does that say about the people who latch on to the conspiracy theories?

Now you have questioned the actual events by saying this side has the disinformation agents and that it was an inside job. So from my side I will ask you this, prove that I am a disinformation agent being paid in this inside job. It is your assumption and your conspiracy theory so you will have to provide some type of evidence.

If you think there is no accusation, go back through thread and read it. Then prove that I am a disinformation agent being paid.

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
Truther= "If you can provide me with proof that it happened this way , hard proof then I could believe it"

Other guy= " Well this study suggest, and shows......"

Truther= " they are all government agents covering it up you cant trust them"

You are right, however, I never say "this study suggests", which is usually what "Truthers" do. I can't say that airplanes slamming into buildings was from a study. That was an actual thing that happened. When we begin to addressing the conspiracy theories themselves by showing their contradictions, falsehood editing and removing truth from statements from witnesses then we won't have to address the "studies". It is the conspiracy theorists proposing studies.

i pretty much knew that the original theory about the 19 arab hijackers was bogus when they found all of their passports the next day.

i find it hard to believe jet fuel can melt steel and bring down the entire buildings but somehow all the key little pieces of plastic identifying the supposed hijackers all magically turn up unscathed.

yep that pretty much did it for me with that little story.

reply to post by UnrelentingLurker


Except ---

i pretty much knew that the original theory about the 19 arab hijackers was bogus when they found all of their passports the next day.

Now, what will you think after you realize that what you wrote (because you read it somewhere else, and believed it to be a fact) is not actually true?


Information and facts are key, here....not rumors (rumors...the entire "9/11 conspiracy" is based on rumor, innuendo, intentionally misleading statements, and a process similar to the child's game "Telephone").


More misconceptions, fed to you:

i find it hard to believe jet fuel can melt steel...

Only the so-called "Truth MOvement" raised that idea, in their efforts to cloud the facts with ridicule.

... and bring down the entire buildings....

Fires...initiated by the impacts, and the presence of fuel that started the fires.

Tremendous heat, that was the undoing of the structures. And the weakening and damage from the initial impacts.
Metal expands when heated. Unevenly, depending on the hot spots. This over-stressed joints and connections, causing progressive failures.

.. but somehow all the key little pieces of plastic identifying the supposed hijackers all magically turn up unscathed.

IN NYC one passport was found, in the street...before the first Tower collapse. One. As well as many other items from the passengers and crew.

High energy, high velocity airplane crashes are chaotic things. It has been shown countless times, in other crash cases, that things like that can happen.

Originally posted by UnrelentingLurker
i pretty much knew that the original theory about the 19 arab hijackers was bogus when they found all of their passports the next day.

i find it hard to believe jet fuel can melt steel and bring down the entire buildings but somehow all the key little pieces of plastic identifying the supposed hijackers all magically turn up unscathed.

Here is a video of the Oakland Bridge collapse after a diesel truck hit it....
www.youtube.com...

And not all of the hijackers passports were found, and there were other passengers' things found such as mileage cards...

www.911myths.com...

reply to post by GoodOlDave


What did it for me?

It's simple really. If this were an inside job perpetrated by our Gov't as the 9/11 conspiracy nuts would like us all to believe, then as a logical person you would have to ask yourself, "who all was in on it?"

For instance: Since the 9/11 conspiracy nuts generally keep proposing that 757 airplanes did not crash at the Pentagon or in Shanksville, I have to logically look at the culprits. Who is the government relying on to cover it up?

Lets see:

We have United Airlines, and all of the employees who were involved in some way shape or form with UAL93. Whether you like it or not, there was an United 93 flight that day. Not one person who works for UAL with knowledge of this flight has come forward to deny that fact. There are records. Passenger manifests. Radar. Black boxes. Plane parts. Dead passengers.

We have American Airlines, and all of the employees who were involved in some way shape or form with AA77. Whether you like it or not, there was an American 77 flight that day. Not one person who works for AA with knowledge of this flight has come forward to deny that fact. There are records. Passenger manifests. Radar. Black boxes. Plane parts. Dead passengers.

ASK YOURSELF what was in it for American and United to go along with this plan? Oh yeah, that's right- stock prices that were pulverized just like the Towers.

What of the witnesses who saw these planes go down?

There had to be hundreds of them. Man that's a lot of ordinary civilians (or were they?) who agreed to high treason against their beloved country. What was in it for them?

Air traffic controllers who were monitoring these flights until they went off radar. What was in it for those guys?

What of the passengers and their families? All the people who've told their story of speaking to loved ones who were on those fateful planes? What was in it for these poor folks? Oh wait, right, my bad- CIA did it.

Speaking of CIA- and the FBI, NORAD, NSA, DoD, ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, FOX, and any other 3 letter organization you can think of who either reported it (with faked videos) or investigated it ( by planting evidence),

No feelings of guilt from any of these people?? No whistleblowers yet, huh? Well, its only been 10 years...let's wait and see

How about the first responders?- guess they had to be in on it in some way too.

Who planted all those explosives in the twin towers and wtc 7 without a single person knowing? oh thats right- the ninjas...

Who launched the cruise missiles and from where? Why no witnesses claiming to see missiles being launched or flying though our skies?

This can keep going on and on.

Too many ordinary people would have had to be in on it. Would our government take such a risk that anyone of these folks wouldn't take the secret right to their graves? THERES NO WAY.

Where are the whistle blowers?

People seem to forget that 9/11 had its roots in an initial attempt to bring down the WTC back in 1993. Did Bill Clinton and Al Gore have a part in that one?

reply to post by PhotonEffect


Yes, you would think a cruise missile screaming across the interstate would catch people's attention. And since cruise missiles usually strike from the air in a semi-vertical position, I wonder why then the roof was not hit.

No wait, it was a plane that someone said was a missile. The word missile can mean anything from a football to an airplane. In essence, the plane was headed right for the Pentagon, so technically speaking, it was a missile. Isn't it nice how conspiracy theorists can twist words to mean anything?

Conspiracy theorists forgot to look up information about cruise missiles. They fly at supersonic speed, that means they fly so fast that when they go over houses sometimes they break windows. Since no one witnessed their houses being shaken by a cruise missile, and people on the interstate who saw this, including the taxi that the light pole fell on, they all said airplane. Hmmm, I wonder, do airplanes and cruise missiles look the same?

Apparently in the milieu of conspiracy theory world, all things are possible, except for hijacked airplanes. Hijacked airplanes happen in the real world.

Originally posted by earthdude
I could only assume the stories were from disinformation agents paid to make the truthers look stupid. Nobody could imagine such outlandish plots. It had to be a plan to discredit those who sought the truth. No, I don't pretend to know the truth. Looks like an inside job.

So now let me get this straight...the NYPD and NYFD are secret agents. The NYPA are all secret agents. NIST and FEMA are secret agents. NORAD and NATO are secret agents. The BBC, Al Jazeera, and every American media outlet are secret agents. Every witness around the Pentagon is a secret agent. MIT and Purdue are all secret agents. There are people who say I'm a secret agent. Even the Red Cross are all secret agents. Now you're saying Alex Jones and Dylan Avery are really secret agents...?

It's official. There is literally noone left on the planet who isn't a secret agent.

reply to post by WarminIndy


That's the problem with these conspiracy nuts.

Cruise missiles, controlled demolition, santa and his reindeer- whatever the trendy theory of the day is- it all sounds flashy, and looks good on paper-

But they fail to look at it from a logical and logistical perspective. If they did they'd see just how thin the paper really is...

reply to post by GoodOlDave

Is this the same William Rodriguz??

Originally posted by TWILITE22
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

edit on 14-10-2011 by TWILITE22 because: (no reason given)

Is this the same William Rodriguz??

edit on 14-10-2011 by TWILITE22 because: (no reason given)

Yes, the thing you do when you have a team of demolition experts is to keep them in the line of danger. You keep your entire team in harms way. I wonder then, how many "members of the team" died on that day? Doesn't sound very logistical to me.

If they wanted to blow it up, what would be the purpose of pretending to fly airplanes into the buildings?

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by earthdude
I could only assume the stories were from disinformation agents paid to make the truthers look stupid. Nobody could imagine such outlandish plots. It had to be a plan to discredit those who sought the truth. No, I don't pretend to know the truth. Looks like an inside job.

It's official. There is literally noone left on the planet who isn't a secret agent.

Dave, they think I am a secret agent. Next thing you will hear is that the mods at ATS are secret agents for allowing us to come on here and say this. Well it must be true, the mods must also be disinformation agents because of all the people they allow to speak on this site. I am waiting for the theorists to prove I am a disinformation agent that gets paid. I asked them to prove it, but so far no one has responded with the answer yet, it seems when I ask, they never talk to me again.

Originally posted by TWILITE22
Is this the same William Rodriguz

Yes it is. Are you saying Rodriguez is really a secret agent? He had the key to access all the very off-limits locations where the demolitions would need to be planted, and he even proves it by showing the key to the very door that grants access to those locations. Rather suspicious how someone working there day after day wouldn't notice something as blatantly obvious as armies of complete strangers rushing in and out, leaving thousands of mysterious packages with strange wires hanging out of it all over the place.

Plus, how is it that he keeps changing his story every time you ask him? And how did he survive when the bomb he described went off literally under his feet? Hmmm...

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by earthdude
I could only assume the stories were from disinformation agents paid to make the truthers look stupid. Nobody could imagine such outlandish plots. It had to be a plan to discredit those who sought the truth. No, I don't pretend to know the truth. Looks like an inside job.

It's official. There is literally noone left on the planet who isn't a secret agent.

Dave, they think I am a secret agent. Next thing you will hear is that the mods at ATS are secret agents for allowing us to come on here and say this.

I've seen that happen. I think it was Dillweed who posted some obnoxious and pointless thing as he always does, and he was complaining how the government must have usurped the place when the moderators yanked his post and kept mine.

I am waiting for the theorists to prove I am a disinformation agent that gets paid. I asked them to prove it, but so far no one has responded with the answer yet, it seems when I ask, they never talk to me again.

I can relate. If I'm a paid disinformation agent then someone is ripping me off, 'cause I'm making all these posts here and haven't seen so much as a dime. It must be a secret agent union thing.

reply to post by GoodOlDave
Jesus Dave have you lost your mind I'm showing you a video of the man you said heard explosions ABOVE him,which is in direct contradiction of what he said in this video???Your making me crazy Dave