Plans for a water powered car.

So a friend and I were wondering why it wouldn't be possible to build a water powered car and came across this really easy to understand idea of how it could be done.
It seems clear to me/us that it would be pretty easy unless there is something we are overlooking which is why I come to you.

The age old problem is the fact that it takes an inordinate amount of electricity to split the water molecule into O2 and Hydrogen. Sure you could get a car to run on hydrogen but where are you going to get the hydrogen?
How are you going to generate enough electricity to keep the electrolysis going?

Can someone please tell me why you couldn't generate the electrolysis process using the already existing alternator?

It would work like this.
A separate deep cell battery is designated to the electrolysis system.
You get in the car, flip a switch, and the bubbles begin to rise and gas begins to accumulate in the water cannister in the trunk.
Pressure begins to build, feeding the Hydrogen/O2 mixture to the fuel injection manifold on the engine,
then it's time to start the car.
Once started, the alternator begins generating the electricity needed to keep the system going.
The only problem I see is the ability to keep the pressure at a manageable rate.
Too much pressure and somethings gonna blow.
Too little and the engine dies.
But the idea is still solid.

Here is the idea put another way.

How It Works
Exceedingly simple. Water is pumped as needed to replenish and maintain the liquid level in the chamber. The electrodes are vibrated with a 0.5-5A electrical pulse which breaks 2(H2O) => 2H2 + O2. When the pressure reaches say 30-60 psi, you turn the key and go. You step on the pedal, you send more energy to the electrodes, and thus more vapor to the cylinders; i.e. fuel vapor on demand.
You set the idle max-flow rate to get the most efficient use of power, and you're off to the races.
In the big picture, your free energy is coming from the tap water in an open system, as the latent energy in the water is enough to power the engine and hence drive the alternator and whatever belt-driven accessories. And the alternator is efficient enough to run the various electrical loads (10 - 20 amps), including the additional low current to run this vapor reaction. No extra batteries are required.

link

Here is a facinating video about this very idea being field tested.

link


So can someone smarter than myself please tell me why this wouldn't work?
Honestly?

I wish I could help but that stuff flies right over my head.

But hey if you get it to work don't sell out to the oil companies please!!

Also S&F for support!

Originally posted by Screwed
Can someone please tell me why you couldn't generate the electrolysis process using the already existing alternator?

What powers the alternator? The motor.
What powers the motor? Hydrogen.
When do we get hydrogen? Electrolysis.
What powers the electrolysis? The battery.
What charges the battery? The alternator.

Its all a bit circular.

Why not connect turbines to the exhaust and use that to power another alternator ?

reply to post by alfa1


I'll try once more to explain the chain.

An independant, dedicated, deep cell battery initiates the electrolysis process.
Hydrogen and O2 ARE produced.
Pressure builds.
HHO is fed to the engine which is now ready to be started.
The engine starts.
The alternator takes over the job of the battery thus producing the electrlysis process.
Hydrogen is produced "On Demand". thus keeping the engine running.
It is a system in which, once started, would keep going as long as you had enough water to feed it.

The problem that everybody has when trying to get a system of this nature working is that it takes more energy to make the HHO than the engine can produce with the HHO available from it's own production.

reply to post by dainoyfb


Did you watch the vid?
Pretty convincing I must say.
Unless you are prepared to call it a hoax which I am eagerly waiting for someone to do.

And to be clear.... IN NO WAY am I planning on building or even attempting to build such a device.
I wouldn't know how to even if I tried.
I HAVE NO interest in it even if I could build it.
I enjoy paying at the pump and I also enjoy......my life !!!!

Originally posted by dainoyfb
The problem that everybody has when trying to get a system of this nature working is that it takes more energy to make the HHO than the engine can produce with the HHO available from it's own production.

that is not true!
the alternator produces more energy than what's needed to make the HHO

the problem that i can see is safety...

considering the HHO gas pressure build up and it's combustion...
how safe is this system from not exploding your vehicle?

I know this type of system can be made to work. A man named Stanley Meyer did it a few years ago. He developed a HHO generator that he was using to run a dune buggy with water. Sadly, while in the process of patenting his invention, he was found dead and his workshop burned to the ground. Fortunately, his vehicle was not in the shop. He had stored it in a friend's garage. People since then have studied his device and are trying to replicate it.

I'm still on the fence about using water as a fuel. I know it would be a tremendous boon. The drawback I see is that water freezes. Where I live, for instance, it's not unusual for temperatures to drop below freezing about mid November and stay there until March. Maybe in cases like that, one would have to switch fuels for winter and summer.

I won't even go into the prospect of such devices being subject to taxes and licensing that would make them financially unfeasible.

reply to post by N3k9Ni

so sad for Mr. Stanley Meyer

i bet they ruled it as an accidental death from his experiments... or something phony like that!

reply to post by EmilNomel


If I remember right, the official cause of death was food poisoning.

reply to post by EmilNomel


(And also relating to the OP original question)

The more demand put on the alternator, the more resistance it produces, which puts the machine into a negative power surplus, making it non-sustainable. Nice Idea, but you are still describing a perpetual motion machine. Conservation of energy, laws of thermodynamics are against you.

Keep trying though, this is the kind of thinking that the world needs!

Originally posted by charlyv
reply to post by EmilNomel

 

(And also relating to the OP original question)

The more demand put on the alternator, the more resistance it produces, which puts the machine into a negative power surplus, making it non-sustainable. Nice Idea, but you are still describing a perpetual motion machine. Conservation of energy, laws of thermodynamics are against you.

Keep trying though, this is the kind of thinking that the world needs!

edit on 30-9-2011 by charlyv because: clarity

why would it be that we are describing a perpetual motion machine?
there is a consumption of water ("the fuel") isn't there?
according to your logic... the regular gasoline operated engine is also a perpetual motion machine!

reply to post by charlyv

it's not a perpetual motion machine and also it's not a "free energy machine"
for the best results in this type of engine you will need distilled water (not tap water or mineral water as those are polluted with other chemicals in them)
it takes energy to distill water... that's why a gallon of distilled water cost around $1 and that's what gasoline used to cost many years ago!

reply to post by Screwed


No, I wouldn't say it is a hoax necessarily. There really is very little evidence either way with this video. On one hand, many people have been trying for decades to produce enough hydrogen for this system to work and it unlikely that a system this simple and so like all the others has accomplished the efficiency required. On the other hand maybe these fellows have found a novel twist which has finally accomplished this. Not impossible but many have claimed the same in the past without producing an end product. Separating hydrogen and oxygen efficiently is the holy grail of energy production. It has been theorized for ages. It has been tried and tried with thousands and thousands of man hours by hobbyists and companies with multimillion dollar budgets to no avail. It may happen some day but only time will tell if these guys have figured it out or are just the next cons trying to sucker the investors.

Originally posted by Screwed
No extra batteries are required.

link

Here is a facinating video about this very idea being field tested.

link

So can someone smarter than myself please tell me why this wouldn't work?

Because you contradict yourself. You say "No extra batteries are required.", yet you show a video which demonstrates clearly that an extra battery is required.

That 2004 Dodge pickup has not only a regular car battery under the hood, but it also has a humongous battery in the bed of the pickup. It is the humongous extra battery that's powering the apparatus to create the hydrogen.

What would happen if you disconnected the huge battery in the truck?

You can't get more energy from burning the hydrogen, than you need to separate the hydrogen. Therefore the motor and alternator can't make a sustained output to split hydrogen which is greater than the input, so what we see is only temporary, and battery powered.

Therefore it would only run as long as the much smaller battery under the hood could make up the difference, which wouldn't be very long.

The reason they use the huge battery in the bed of the pickup truck is to try to mask this fact.

Your scheme requires more output than input (over unity). In real life, that doesn't happen.

Originally posted by EmilNomel
it's not a perpetual motion machine and also it's not a "free energy machine"

The design the OP is talking about and shown in the 2004 Dodge pickup video is definitely intended to be a perpetual motion machine, over unity design concept. But you're right it's not one, because there's no such thing, at least nobody has ever demonstrated one, including the dodge pickup. They had a demo scheduled for investors and they canceled it because it doesn't really work.

Originally posted by EmilNomel
why would it be that we are describing a perpetual motion machine?
there is a consumption of water ("the fuel") isn't there?

No, as what do you get when you burn hydrogen in the presence of oxygen....

You are describing a perpetual motion machine

reply to post by EmilNomel


Yes it is a perpetual motion machine.. How can you compare a conventional automobile?
A regular gas car does not manufacture it's own fuel to keep it running , does it?

You are describing a closed system that does work by creating it's own source of energy.
By definition, A perpetual motion machine. Look it up.

A physics course will do you well.

Honestly, if you don't care about it, why are you asking? Anyway, if it works like in the video then the only secret thing is the water splitting reactor and the only people who know how want money, to keep it secret or didn't test the plans they bought.

Other then that, just get a tank with a pressure switch that disconnects the power to the water splitter when the max psi is reached. Put a pressure regulator just after the hydrogen tank. You just have to tweak the values.

You cannot call water a fuel here. It must be manufactured from the water. It takes more energy to liberate the hydrogen and oxygen from the water, than you need to sustain the motion of the vehicle.