The Declaration of the Occupation of New York City

Originally posted by Kicking2bears
There are dozens of Occupy movements going on around America in every major city. Most of them are beginning the democratic process and they are starting by voting on a declaration. I have seen very little complaint about NYC's declaration itself. It is very simple and straightforward. I believe most of the Occupy Movements will adopt a version of this Declaration by the General Assembly of New York. But I do not expect them to adopt all 22 of NYC's Points of Contention.

I am very eager to see what each region has in common with New Yorkers, and what they hold seperate.

For those of you who continue to have issues with the Occupy Wall Street movement... I would suggest you attend or email your local Occupy movement and make your voice heard. Otherwise they will decide which points of contention are important to the local region without consulting you.

And wouldn't that be a tragedy.

If you haven't seen a complaint about their declaration than you must of missed all of my posts! And about 100 other ATS posters.
The declaration is so broad as to be meaningless.
It calls for things which are contrary to our Constitutional Republic.
While there are one or two things (free trade is killing us) that I agree with, the big brush they used to paint their complaints has them whining about things that either aren't so or aren't the responsibility of either government or business to address.
It smacks of communism. (Not even just socialism but real get the government involved Communism).

I appreciate that some of the protesters have strong ideals. But the mish mash of complaints isn't going to get Main Street Traction. Also, the movement is not 99 percent. That's clever marketing but it doesn't fly. While there are certainly some exceptions in each group, this is America:

The Boomers are the largest group in the country. They have too much invested in the current system and not enough time left to adjust to a change. Some will throw in as nostalgia for their youth sets in. The rest of far more worried about what remains of their 401Ks.

Their parents, in the case where they are still living, think it is disgraceful to even question the government. About anything. Ever. They lived through a depression. As long as their social security checks keep coming they would really just like everyone to be quiet. Oh, and call sometime. And how about going to church once in awhile.

GenX has been bottlenecked by the Boomers so long that we all know exactly when the Boomers in our way in our respective places of business will retire. From bitter college kids who graduated into a recession we have emerged as skilled and careful planners. We know exactly where we are going. And we are not about to let GenY hijack the boat before we get our turn at the wheel. We are very good at adapting to change. But the next change is going to be on our terms.

GenY is the hivemind. GenX understands you, we can think like you OR like the Boomers. You don't understand the way that those before you think. You cannot take on an opponent you don't understand.

Too many regular folks are far more interested in fixing what we have than in scrapping it. Call it 99 all you like. It's 3 at best.

reply to post by watcher3339


I just turned 27 late last month. The difference between myself and the hive-mind generation is that I had parents who came from a socialist/communist society. Cuba, to be specific. They taught me just how priceless individual liberty and economic liberty can be. That's what I advocate for.

Liberty, true liberty, is SACRED. And these people are all too willing to toss it out for some romanticized dream of a revolution they clamor for...until the shooting starts....

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by watcher3339

 

I just turned 27 late last month. The difference between myself and the hive-mind generation is that I had parents who came from a socialist/communist society. Cuba, to be specific. They taught me just how priceless individual liberty and economic liberty can be. That's what I advocate for.

Liberty, true liberty, is SACRED. And these people are all to willing to toss it out for some romanticized dream of a revolution they clamor for...until the shooting starts....

edit on 4-10-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

I am really glad that you added that. I was going to talk about immigrants and the gratitude they have for being here and the work ethic that they demonstrate but while I know it to be true, I am not "inside" any immigrant community fully enough to speak for them. I know that there is some discussion in the declaration about free movement. I have long thought that middle America should welcome (particularly) Hispanic immigrants with open arms. In my experience the value systems are quite similar and there is a strong sense to me that Hispanic communities are often quite like America in general several decades back.

reply to post by watcher3339


I was born in Costa Rica. At the time of my birth unemployment in Costa Rica was so bad that by the time my parents got there they were refused employment on the basis of not being Costa Rican. It was the country my parents escaped to when the socialist/communist regime began imprisoning my family members due to involvement with democratic and liberty loving individuals both in Cuba and here in the US.

My status, until I got my green card, was "refugee pursuant" meaning my family and I can never step foot in Cuba without being arrested by government goons.

In my opinion, after digging into the roots of this so-called Occupy "movement", these people are all protesting for collectivist, "social justice" and are willing to throw any traditional notions of American liberty out the window in order to get it. It's sad these people don't appreciate what they have right in front of them. They could do so much good in the fight for liberty...instead they have joined the fight against it and they don't even know it.

reply to post by watcher3339


Latin America is a different civilization entirely. Of course they are not as radically different from us as per se the Chinese or Arabs, but are of a different civilization nonetheless. I can sympathize with some immigrants, the ones who come here to be true blue Americans, but have absolutely no sympathy and perhaps borderline disdain for those which feel no need to assimilate. Often this disdain seems to be a misplaced anger, seeing as how the true culprits are the ones far away from the destructiveness of non-assimilative immigrant communities.

Immigration can have its benefits only if it is done in a limited degree with specific and tough rules for new immigrants. I accept the notion of open borders is good as much as one would accept the notion that having their toe nails slowly removed with pliers is a joyful experience. There are borders for a reason, borders represent the confines of a specific culture made up of a unique ethnic, religious, and historical homogenous people, whenever this idea has been rejected for ‘multiculturalism’, ‘diversity’, or ‘equality’ it has resulted in genocide, mass murder, civil wars, or escalated crime.

People naturally want to be with others who are like them, to deny that is to smack the face of reality with an open hand. It is not a superiority issue, anyone who claims that being in favor of preserving ones culture, race, and nation is somehow racist, bigoted, or ‘fascist’ says so only because they know not of what they speak.

So I reject open borders completely, I reject the idea that inviting in hordes of foreign workers which undermine domestic wages for the benefit of the corporate bottom-line and politicians reelection campaigns is somehow a thing to be favored, and I reject with all of my being, with all of my heart, mind, and spirit any notion of collectivization, social justice, and equality of which they speak at these protests.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by watcher3339

 

I was born in Costa Rica. At the time of my birth unemployment in Costa Rica was so bad that by the time my parents got there they were refused employment on the basis of not being Costa Rican. It was the country my parents escaped to when the socialist/communist regime began imprisoning my family members due to involvement with democratic and liberty loving individuals both in Cuba and here in the US.

My status, until I got my green card, was "refugee pursuant" meaning my family and I can never step foot in Cuba without being arrested by government goons.

In my opinion, after digging into the roots of this so-called Occupy "movement", these people are all protesting for collectivist, "social justice" and are willing to throw any traditional notions of American liberty out the window in order to get it. It's sad these people don't appreciate what they have right in front of them. They could do so much good in the fight for liberty...instead they have joined the fight against it and they don't even know it.

edit on 4-10-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

Well goodie for you. There are a lot of intelligent liberty minded people on the streets of America right now, informed, intelligent, spreading the message that needs to get to those people.

Then there's people like you who feel everything is pointless and hopeless.

You can type real well. Why don't you get out there and "educate" the people actually trying to do something?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

How about the constitution?
All of these problems can be addressed.

This movement is protecting our way of life. Watching stream now along with 11,399 of my best friends.

You can fool some people sometimes...



But you can't fool all the people all the time. "Bob"

reply to post by thejlxc


I don't stand next to anti-capitalist protesters who want to create chaos and get arrested.

I never saw this kind of chaos at Tea Party protests.

I'm well educated enough to not get arrested while trying to get a point across. Many of the morons in the Occupy movement feel it absolutely necessary to be violent, to vandalize, and to demonize.

But I'm sure all of that is ok with you because they have that cool Guy Fawkes mask

reply to post by projectvxn


what about tea partiers who are a part of OWS?

on a side note i did a quick search to see if I could find a violent tea party protest, there were a good amount of videos with the headline of what i was looking for but strangely all of them have been pulled by youtube. I always knew youtube was a right wing front (jkjk)

reply to post by evs490


They are welcome to join this movement if the so choose. I will not be. One thing Tea Partiers believe in strongly is personal responsibility and freedom of choice. I choose not to align myself with a group created by socialist front groups and anti-capitalists because I simply don't believe in the cause, whatever it may be.

I'm not unaware of the banksters crimes. Nor am I unaware of how government coddles corporations. I want to see an end to corporate welfare. But I also want to see an end to social welfare as I believe it has created nothing less than a dependent useless eater class.

Originally posted by Kicking2bears
There are dozens of Occupy movements going on around America in every major city. Most of them are beginning the democratic process and they are starting by voting on a declaration. I have seen very little complaint about NYC's declaration itself. It is very simple and straightforward. I believe most of the Occupy Movements will adopt a version of this Declaration by the General Assembly of New York. But I do not expect them to adopt all 22 of NYC's Points of Contention.

Originally posted by watcher3339
If you haven't seen a complaint about their declaration than you must of missed all of my posts! And about 100 other ATS posters.
The declaration is so broad as to be meaningless.
It calls for things which are contrary to our Constitutional Republic.

edit on 4-10-2011 by watcher3339 because: (no reason given)

I think you missed my point entirely. (In the context I used I had seperated their declaration from their 22 points of contention. Please understand that OWS's declaration will likely be used in some version by the local Occupy movements while their 22 points may not carry through.)

Allow me to elaborate: (The declaration from OWS is in italics)

"As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies."

okay that's not a bad opening sentance. immediately seperates us into those who have been wronged and those who haven't. If you don't feel there has been any wrong doing by the corporate forces in the world you must be blind, deaf or in someone's back pocket.

"As one people, formerly… divided by the color of our skin, gender, sexual orientation, religion, or lack thereof, political party and cultural background, we acknowledge the reality: that there is only one race, the human race, and our survival requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their brethren; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power."

A very long sentance. But I think the first part is self evident. We are all human and entitled to the same inalienable rights. The second part is almost a continuation of the concept of corporate wrongdoing. Again I'm not sure what points of contention you might hold with this sentance.

Finally the last sentance.

"We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known."

Again, I can't disagree with what they said here. What follows this declaration are 22 points that were voted on by the General Assembly of New York. I don't agree with all of their 22 points but I am looking forward to seeing what other General Assemblies in other Cities around the U.S.A. vote on over the next weeks/months.

Imagine if you will, Concerned American citizens gathering across the country in hundreds of different cities. Each of them (likely) ratifies the declaration from Occupy Wall Street (or a version of it) and each of them discusses, votes and reaches consensus on a list of complaints that they feel need to be addressed. (I think that a consolidated list from Occupy movements across the country would be very interesting to read.)

Without a real-time, secure internet voting system (Not simply for elections but also for each issue and law.) our representatives have no effective means of hearing the voice of the people. Consequently, they have been left to their own devices (of greed and corruption). Without a method for making our voices heard the people have despaired of gaining any influence in the political arena. It is not inconceivable that the Occupy movement could act as that communication channel between the People and our Representatives. Perhaps if we tell them what to do, they will attempt to listen.

The most recent count I heard was that there are over 400 cities around the United States hosting Occupy movements of their own. Each one of these will vote to ratify a version of this declaration and then vote on their own individual points of contention. What can be more democratic than that?

Originally posted by Screwed

Originally posted by Misoir
alienate Conservatives such as me.

You are neither "Christian" nor "Conservative".
You are both, THE creation and the creatOR.
You have the ability to see beyond all of this if you should so choose.
But first, you must remove the shackles from your mind.

Carefull...that sounds a lot like luciferian doctrine speak. In which thier ideals include that we are our own gods, and to embrace self indulgement and/or our "human nature".

You say "You are both, THE creation and the creatOR", but then we can't even count the hairs on our head...lol

Everyone, watch this video:

"Amazing predictions from 1958 that came true"

OWS is not a protest, but a mob.

I have a great deal of sympathy for those campaigning and marching to lobby their elected officials. They are supposed to represent them and if they do not, in the words of Truman, "if they can;t take the heat, they should get out of the kitchen:".

This though, is fundamentally different to a group of people, occupying land that is not theirs and obstructing and intimidating ordinary people whi have not claimed any ability nor right to govern them and who are merely going about their workaday lives to put food on the table for their families. This is no different that a gang of schoolyard bullies trying to rough up some playground geeks in get their hands on their lunch money.