The Declaration of the Occupation of New York City

reply to post by NoAngel2u


Totally agree NoAngel2u. There are way too many demands/issues being presented here.

Not to mention the fact that most Americans have the attention span of a fly and won't even be willing to take the time to read and truly understand the message. Why not just sum it up as you said? END CORPORATOCRACY RESTORE DEMOCRACY. Easy, simple, non-divisive message. I don't think there is anyone other than the 1% elite who would be against that.

reply to post by jenk1013

Well, we are actually a republic, but that's a catchy phrase. lol It's all about the money honey. In some cases it's about the honey money. lmao

reply to post by jenk1013


Okay, first i need to apologize to you for taking what you said out of it's intended context. For that I am sorry.

You wrote: "take the power from the elite..." Not: "take the wealth from the elite..."

When you put into the context of corrupting government, I completely agree with you, they should not be able to buy the law. But therein lies the problem. They can afford to buy the law. I cringe at the thought of living in a world where success has a ceiling. I cannot accept that no matter what you do, what problems you solve, or how greatly you improve the human condition there is still only so much that you can be rewarded. But there are those who abuse the power of wealth, in fact it is common.

The situation that we are in today is the climax of human greed, and now we begin to see it's consequences. Something should be done, as we all can agree, but how do we fight the greedy and corrupt without losing our own integrity? How do we punish those who have done wrong without regression in the system that rewards also the good and innocent? Not all wealthy people become corrupt, and many use there success to do wonderful things in the world.

Once again, I apologize for my tactless remarks. I will try not to get ahead of myself next time.

I don't know if I can support these protesters. Some of them seem not so much upset at the government as they are upset at capitalism, the greatest economic system on this green Earth. Too radical for my tastes. What we need is a real people's rebellion.

It amazes me how some of these people are so misguided. I'm going to venture a guess that the people currently in NYC attending these protests are similar in ways to the people who frequent this forum. In opposition of excessive government control. Normally i would support such a movement, but the more i watch these videos, and the more i gather from personal conversations, it seems to me that these people are not directing their anger towards the government, it's towards capitalism. They hate it, and they want it replaced for the most part with socialism. Now the people protesting seem to me like the ones who value individualism, the right to live with freedom and in line with the constitution, the right to a free life and free choice. Socialism is incredibly toxic to every one of these values.

You think you have excessive government control now? Just wait. I like to work for my money, and am quite ashamed that many people think they are entitled to so much for just being alive. The root of the problem is DC. They are a prime example of how the govt needs to stay OUT of the free market.

hmmm never mind that post

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

This is really not what it seems. Please be careful, everyone! Please, do not fall for anything that doesn't seem 'right'. Trust your 'gut'. The protestors are being used. Used in a very bad and very dangerous way. There is a term for these non-union people, they are the 'Challenge Group', the union members are the 'Constituents', there are titles/labels because this strategy is very well documented and very much in play.

This is a very well planned event, it is not just some natural gathering of ticked off Americans.

This is not about Wall Street, nor is it about the banks. The goal of these riots (they'll turn into) are either about nationalizing the banks/financial institutions, or to bring in an Executive Order in that will restrict public organizing and crowd gatherings before next year's election. (They could be to rally in something else, but these are my first thoughts).

Many ATSers referred to this week's seemingly empty schedules of many leaders (or 'higher-up public figures') or the otherwise full agenda's some, to point to the week's possible threat from outside sources (Elenin, Iran, etc). But, could it be due to this?

Perhaps the union boss (Trumka?) has the week to 'get the party' started, before Obama is forced (by being 'available) to comment. If it's still somewhat small and non-violent, then what's to say? But, if it can be spread city-to-city, then even better! If they can introduce violence before the end of the time window, then even better.

I feel very uncomfortable about this. And, no! It's not because I'm a banker or wall-street backer - far from it!

This is organized. This is union. This is planned with the WH inolved. This will not end pretty for anyone and possibly very violent for those in the crowds.

A good book to read, about all of this...is 'The Strategy of Social Protest', by William Gamson.

Edit: My reply wasn't targeted to you, TEH...I just happened to read your post last and clicked the 'reply'.

Originally posted by Misoir
I agree with all of the 22 points except these; 3, 6, and 22.

3.They have perpetuated gender inequality and discrimination in the workplace.

This is just another complaint by people who want more affirmative action and forced equality of pay. If they had their way government would violate private property rights in an area the government has no right to be involved in.

6.They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.

Since when is education a human right? I recall that natural rights are inherent for all people, meaning that it is an independent thing which is separate from the operations of others. Education is a service, you do not have a right to any services, but you do have a right to be free to pursue an education.

22.They have participated in a directly racist action by accepting the contract from the State of Georgia to murder Troy Davis.

I am so tired of hearing people beat these old drum. Everything is racism; “you looked at me wrong, racist!” Just shut the hell up about it.

These three things are just so tiresome and would push me away from these protests. Right now they (protestors) just seem like a joke to me, I would not even waste my time with these people. Yes these people (elites) should be punished for their crimes against humanity, violation of our natural rights, conspiracy to form a global governance, and treason against the Republic. But do we really need to drag in these cultural issues which will certainly alienate Conservatives such as me. How about just leaving it as a protest against the treasonous elites?

Just for some reason I do not trust these protestors, I do not know why it is just something I feel.

“There are persons who constantly clamor. They complain of oppression, speculation, and pernicious influence of wealth. They cry out loudly against all banks and corporations, and a means by which small capitalists become united in order to produce important and beneficial results. They carry on mad hostility against all established institutions. They would choke the fountain of industry and dry all streams.” - Daniel Webster

edit on 9/29/2011 by Misoir because: (no reason given)

I couldn,t help but notice your avatar...............seems to be appropriate, you just sitting there telling others how you would do it.
How many hours have you spent at "occupy wall street"? Surely, someone of your intellect would be an asset to the movement.

Since you seem to enjoy Daniel Webster, I will leave you with a few of his quotes.


On the diffusion of education among the people rest the preservation and perpetuation of our free institutions


Let it be borne on the flag under which we rally in every exigency, that we have one country, one constitution, one destiny”


“I mistrust the judgment of every man in a case in which his own wishes are concerned.”


“How little do they see what really is, who frame their hasty judgment upon that which seems.”



Daniel Webster


Parker
MTUBY

reply to post by SourGrapes


I'm inclined to agree with you. You make an excellent point about the possibility of it being used to promote nationalization of the financial sector. I am highly suspicious of their list of demands as well, as they call for a 1 % tax. RIchard Trumpka is promoting a global financial tax, so I suspect that demand comes directly from this plan, and it's Bilderbergs, so anyone claiming to be against Bilderberg can't be sporting a demand for taxes. You may be right about it possibly even being sponsored by the WH, as Richard Trumpka is a favorite there, and Trumpka himself has bragged about being involved in the Egypt protests. I have believed that the WH was involved with that too.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


I was not pointing my comments at you so sorry if it sounded like I was saying you were violent. I have no issue with anyone sticking up for themselves by means of self defense. But is it self defense when you make choices that put you in a dangerous situation? We have to be accountable for what we do and support. TPTB like manipulating good and kind people this way and backing them into a corner and then controlling the outcome. Those are situations like I fear exists here regarding this movement that cause concern with me for my fellow human beings. It's prime pickens for Americans to get caught up with so much angst and passion for change that is real. I just hope I am wrong and that by some miracle no one gets hurt. I am not a conspiracy theorist at all and never claimed to be but it seems so obvious to me that Americans are being suckered into a volatile situation.

Originally posted by TheThirdAdam
First let me say that I think that this whole thing is very misguided and seems to have no consideration for the collateral damage that it cause if they actually did accomplish their goals.

Second, I can't help but notice how easily this movement could be hijacked to serve a much more sinister purpose.

Anyone else seeing what I'm seeing here?

No...

What needs to be added is only that we must remove ourselves from a monetary based system, or at least as a transition we need to force big corps to submit to limitation in income and throw excess directly back at the people who made sure they could achieve such wealth.

For one and half century these elitists have taken, taken and taken to the point where there's only imaginary money and debt to be taken. It's time they start paying back...

After that, we as a joint human race need to look into a global society FREE of money completely. We need to realise that ALL resources on this planet does NOT belong to a single person, a single color, a single religion or a single country. EVERYTHING must be devided equally amongst the people of the human race, and any standing in the way of this must be held back and taught how to respect a global community.

We have to make sure that the very basic needs of a human being is met for everyone. There shall be no difference in how much a home costs regardless of where it is situated. We need to move ourselves to live in sustainable cities where there exists no such thing as class or material success.

This is the beginning... and what a glorious beginning. Please tell everyone you know, that now is the time to stand up and revolt. Big corporations do NOT own us, we don't need them, they need us. If you and your union representatives stand together across lines of work, you WILL SUCCEED in forcing these greedy pigs in striped jackets and shiny shoes to come out of their hole and relinquish the power they so unrightfully have held over us for one and half century.
And you have to remember yourself and your next that these people have NO POWER... YOU, THE PEOPLE do. It does not matter where in the world you are, governments and borders are obsolete because the people you thought you elected through democratic elections have in reality been placed and bought by the very corporations terrorizing you and you family and friends through mortgages and income taxes.

You have been taught that terror lies within some foreign nation across the world. A land you have never seen... people you never met. You have been conditioned through tv which is owned by the big corporations that those countries and the people in those countries want to harm you... well guess what they just WANT THE SAME AS YOU. PEACE for them to live a safe life... They too have been charmed by tv propaganda into thinking that you want to hurt them and theirs. But do you really want to hurt another human being? Regardless of color and religion they are your brother and sister in race. WE are made of the same stuff. Our religions even preach about the same idols, only with different names.

SAY NO, to the monetary terror, SAY NO, to the brainwash being put into your life everyday through biased tv programs and de-intellectualising gameshows. Say yes to reclaim your life value and say yes to living a life in peace with others on this planet. It is your right, and it is time to claim this right!

See you on the street....

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Here's the link to the book that I referenced in my post:
The Strategy of Social Protest

Wow, I can't believe the price on this. Kind of makes me feel special to own a copy. Better take care of this one.
Now, I want to read it again. Kind of makes one wonder why so valuable (probably just because it's out of print...but stil)

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


So the protest is basically in support of the Bilderbergers and the WH, nice way to defame the movement on a conspiracy forum.

Originally posted by ForeverDusk
I don't know if I can support these protesters. Some of them seem not so much upset at the government as they are upset at capitalism, the greatest economic system on this green Earth. Too radical for my tastes. What we need is a real people's rebellion.

You do realise that governments aren't directly accountable for the state of things. The big corporations are and capitalism is. You can't sustain a growth in income without sacrificing human workforce. So you think it is ok that the cost of "the glorious capitalism" is social inequality and degradation of human standards?

Capitalism is as big a form of brainwash as religion is. Unfortunately for capitalism it is by nature also completely self destructive... you are inventing money to pay for the intrest on the money you invented earlier... nothing more.

Remove money entirely from the human equation and you approach something that can be view as social equality and a sustainable future for generations to come.

The trick is... we need everyone to understand that it is not ok that some have extreme less than someone else or, in a lot of cases, have nothing at all. We need to work together as humans and respect each other, not try to be better than each other all the time.

If you have everything you NEED, food, shelter and health... then why do you need more for yourself alone?

Originally posted by NoAngel2u
I really think that list is too long. Those are the details,,, the symptoms. They are covered in one overriding corruptive influence within our political system. Money money money.

They should have remained focused on that one KEY building block of corporatacracy. Gotta pick your battles and prioritize. I don't mean toss the list, but to determine a primary objective and hammer it. You will likely get more people on board with a more narrowed focus that most everyone will likely agree with, than with a list of demands that everyone will argue about.

However, with a narrow focus like "money money money" you risk alienating a lot more people IMO.

A manifesto of 20 odd points allows people to pick and choose what they like from the menu, and discuss their preferences with their peers and in public forums. This raises awareness and attention on those points - it's brilliant.

I'd support any movement calling for the END of the monetary system (and I'm financially wealthy by the way, so it's not a case of sour grapes), but the vast majority of people, especially those with power and influence are so hopelessly addicted to, dependent on, and highly defensive of the monetary system, it is not the time yet for that kind of conversation with the general population, IMO. (Just look how much flak Joseph and Fresco have taken for pointing out the facts and the alternatives!)

Originally posted by jenk1013
reply to post by NoAngel2u

 

Totally agree NoAngel2u. There are way too many demands/issues being presented here.

Not to mention the fact that most Americans have the attention span of a fly and won't even be willing to take the time to read and truly understand the message. Why not just sum it up as you said? END CORPORATOCRACY RESTORE DEMOCRACY. Easy, simple, non-divisive message. I don't think there is anyone other than the 1% elite who would be against that.

edit on 29-9-2011 by jenk1013 because: (no reason given)

Yeah but what does that mean. It's completely open to interpretation. What is corporatocracy? You need to supply details to create real alignment of purpose.

Look.

It has to start some how.

It has to start some time.

It's growing to cities all over the USA daily.

The idea that waiting for the perfect solution to come is a trap. These people are actually doing things, actually, in really real life, off the net. They're meeting people, they're talking, they're organizing. I'm sick and tired of people picking apart everything until they find their magical reason for sitting on their lazy ass and typing about it, instead of doing it.

I'm doing things in real life. You should be too. This movement will sweep the land once the "staged violence" occurs and the cops really start to crack down. They can't possibly let it spread so wide, heck, it's about to go main stream news, it's been going on weeks, they've been able to keep it down, but now it's spreading and growing and it may grow to hundreds of thousands, and it's finally getting real.

Keep all your ridiculous rationalizations for doing nothing to yourselves. Do something.

Yeah. I don't know where you guys are getting your informtion. But you are taking this at face value only.

It is a lot of pissed off americans, There are what, 24 million people who are under/unemployed in the united states? Most of which are drowning in debt for medical and student loans.

These are the people who are fighting.

Big deal, you have a job with benefits, and a nice car and a paid up house. Well guess what? Its not about any one goddamn person anymore. 1 out of every 2 children go hungry every single #ing day. Corporate interests in other countries render them completely in debt and unable to pay it off due to baught off politicians and leaders (africa). The pollution is poisoning us and out children.

The movement is to end all this bull#, corporate greed and corruption. Government corruption. Its all in the same boat. We are where we are today because of the federal reserve and their imaginary money.

Monsanto lobbies congress to get bills pass that make them legally allowed to take NATURE over, and if they continue to do so, NATURE will not longer exist, it will be an owned GM commodity. All of it. You see it happening as we speak.

How about nice big oil tax breaks? You know, those billion dollar ones? Each and everyone one of you paid more taxes than exxon mobile last year. How does it make you feel that a barrel of oil is cheaper now, yet still getting screwed at the pump?

How about the millions upon millions of people who CANNOT get a job with a masters degree, graduate degree? undergrad? diploma?

Quit thinking about yourself and thing of the betterment of humanity. Its not about corporations making money, its about corporations making money and not funneling that money back into the system to create jobs, pay a decent wage, increase wages with the INCREASE of commodity costs. Instead it gets spent on sending jobs overseas, and into the pockets of our politicians, and into the pockets of the people who own these businesses.

A mother should not have to choose between rent and food.
A veteran should be able to get a job after SERVING YOUR COUNTRY.
A corporation should NOT be able to move into a country and suck their resources out (name your oil company)
A teenager should not have to choose between school and working so his family can afford to eat.

Occupy Wall Street has recently come into the media spotlight, not because of our political message, but because certain high-ranking members of the NYPD punched, threw, and stepped on peaceful marchers. Arrestees were handcuffed so tight their hands turned blue. Many of these people have yet to regain feeling in their extremities. A senior police officer infamously forced women into pens and maced them at point-blank range. While we vehemently condemn these abuses of power, we urge all who read this to remain focused on our intended message. Abuse of power is abuse of power. Whether perpetrated by Wall Street bankers or members of the NYPD, it is the duty of all citizens to oppose injustice. We condemn the actions of unprofessional police who used excessive force in subduing a peaceful march. But we are foremost here to oppose the growing power of the ruling class.

Let us also be clear that, when approached as individuals, members of the NYPD have expressed solidarity with our cause. It has been inspiring to receive this support. Over these thirteen days, we have learned that no one supports corporations’ disproportionate influence in the political sphere. We have learned that no one is in favor of evicting struggling families to the street while banks continue to profit. No one, that is, except the corporations and banks. We urge members of the NYPD to remain in solidarity with our cause. These men and women could lose their pensions and benefits during the next round of budget cuts. We ask that members of the NYPD treat all peaceful human beings with respect and care. This will be a great step towards reclaiming power for the working class. Those who profit off the suffering of others will held accountable. We are the 99%, and we are too big to fail.

Tonight we march to One Police Plaza.

occupywallstreet.org - Source

Now i feel justified in stating...It's started.

We must remember to Stand Fast, Stand Firm, Never Surrender.

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies."
Thomas Jefferson
"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country."
Thomas Jefferson

Thomas was a very wise man...More