To attribute the first formation of things to chance is nonsense for chance cannot produce the results of intelligence. If chance could be intelligent, it would cease to be chance.

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
What is to be thought of the opinion that attributes the first formation of things to a fortuitous combination of matter, in other words, to chance?

"Another absurdity! Who that is possessed of common sense can regard chance as an intelligent agent? And, besides, what is chance? Nothing."

The harmony which regulates the mechanism of the universe can only result from combinations adopted in view of predetermined ends, and thus, by its very nature, reveals the existence of an Intelligent Power. To attribute the first formation of things to chance is nonsense for chance cannot produce the results of intelligence. If chance could be intelligent, it would cease to be chance.

Wow. That post was intelligently designed. You explained that very well. If chance could be intelligent, then intelligent design would be falsified as a theory.

Originally posted by addygrace
Your signature is a blatant misrepresentation, of Jesus. Jesus makes a clear distinction between the spirit and the vessel for that spirit. He was showing the Pharisees to be hypocrites. They were worried about traditions, and staying true to habit. Jesus was worried about them nullifying the word of God. Germs aren't important. The word of God is. Jesus was on earth to teach and fulfill a prophecy. Actually that passage shows something even deeper, in you. God is weighing on your heart.

My signature is one of the easier ones to rationalize, I admit. It's not there to make a point though, it's just there because it's humorous at face value before anyone starts rationalizing. I can't imagine any deity that was aware of germ theory would make such a statement. Especially since common thought at the time was that illnesses and other problems were caused by sin instead, Jesus perpetuated it by using something that would actually help and refusing to do it, opting for refusing to sin instead.

If you would like me to switch to one that can't be rationalized, I'll go ahead and do so. Then there'll be no bases for accusing misrepresentation. But, I repeat, I meant my current one lightly. I don't think it's necessary to go to a serious bad part of the bible to constantly draw out beneath my posts, that would be far too cocky for my tastes. Maybe just a disclaimer beneath it instead?

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P.S. Glad to have what I contribute to the topic ignored, while people are still willing to attack my off topic signature. Really furthers the topic at hand.

Originally posted by xxsomexpersonxx

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I can't imagine any deity that was aware of germ theory would make such a statement. Especially since common thought at the time was that illnesses and other problems were caused by sin instead, Jesus perpetuated it by using something that would actually help and refusing to do it, opting for refusing to sin instead.

Actually that passage shows they knew something about germs, whether they called it germs or just knew the correlation between washing hands and preventing disease.
Some of the Old Testament laws prove they had a pretty amazing knowledge of Germ Theory.
The Pharisees were constantly trying to show Jesus to be a fraud.
Jesus constantly exposed the Pharisees for what they were. Jesus's point was to teach those around him, the traditions were not important, even if they did prevent a common cold. God was important.
Jesus wasn't here as a savior of the human body. He was here as a savior of the human spirit.

Originally posted by xxsomexpersonxx

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If you would like me to switch to one that can't be rationalized, I'll go ahead and do so. Then there'll be no bases for accusing misrepresentation. But, I repeat, I meant my current one lightly. I don't think it's necessary to go to a serious bad part of the bible to constantly draw out beneath my posts, that would be far too cocky for my tastes. Maybe just a disclaimer beneath it instead?

Whatever you like. It would be rewarding for you if you could take this opportunity that you've been givin and seize it.

Originally posted by addygrace
Some of the Old Testament laws prove they had a pretty amazing knowledge of Germ Theory.
The Pharisees were constantly trying to show Jesus to be a fraud.
Jesus constantly exposed the Pharisees for what they were. Jesus's point was to teach those around him, the traditions were not important, even if they did prevent a common cold. God was important.
Jesus wasn't here as a savior of the human body. He was here as a savior of the human spirit.

Yes, the people at the time did see correlations between certain acts and disease. They didn't understand germ theory at all though, they thought the acts themselves were causing it instead germs caught from them. This caused a lot of acts to be considered as abominable, or sinful. Back to my point that they thought sin caused sickness, they thought that acts that also obviously caused sickness must be sins too. Backwards, absolutely lacking in knowledge of germ theory.

Think about how people spent lengthy periods of time 'unclean' for so many different acts. Imagine if this god just told his people how to properly clean themselves instead of calling them unclean and putting them on temporary shun status. It would have been easier to understand than many different time lengths for different unclean acts, and much more effective. Unclean time periods from certain acts may of been retained for optimization, but nothing like the exaggerated ones in the bible.

I don't know the verse, but I'm remembering a story of jesus, refusing to resurrect someone because he didn't want to touch a dead carcass to resurrect and subsequently be unclean for 7 days, when he had to do something he needed to be 'clean' for before that. He could have just washed his hands thoroughly afterwards(like anyone with modern knowledge would do), but instead let the man stay dead, and the family continue to be in sorrow. He also could've used his unlimited power to do the resurrection without touching the corpse, I remember asking as a child why he didn't when the story was read to me, the eventual answer they didn't give was because it was just a story,

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I repeat, I know the point he was making in the original verse, and I wasn't challenging it. It's just funny, that he used refusing to wash his hands to make a point about what defiles people. It's not something anyone who knew what we do in modern days would do, because it does completely defile you to eat with nasty hands. It's not a wise way to make a point.

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If you would like to continue this discussion, please PM me. I don't like derailing threads, and I don't plan on discussing this any further in such an inappropriate place.

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I'll contemplate a switch to something unrelated. Maybe something from my quote book. If not, I'll put a disclaimer up sometime soon. I hope that satisfies you.

Originally posted by xxsomexpersonxx

Originally posted by addygrace
Some of the Old Testament laws prove they had a pretty amazing knowledge of Germ Theory.
The Pharisees were constantly trying to show Jesus to be a fraud.
Jesus constantly exposed the Pharisees for what they were. Jesus's point was to teach those around him, the traditions were not important, even if they did prevent a common cold. God was important.
Jesus wasn't here as a savior of the human body. He was here as a savior of the human spirit.

Yes, the people at the time did see correlations between certain acts and disease. They didn't understand germ theory at all though, they thought the acts themselves were causing it instead germs caught from them. This caused a lot of acts to be considered as abominable, or sinful. Back to my point that they thought sin caused sickness, they thought that acts that also obviously caused sickness must be sins too. Backwards, absolutely lacking in knowledge of germ theory.

Think about how people spent lengthy periods of time 'unclean' for so many different acts. Imagine if this god just told his people how to properly clean themselves instead of calling them unclean and putting them on temporary shun status. It would have been easier to understand than many different time lengths for different unclean acts, and much more effective. Unclean time periods from certain acts may of been retained for optimization, but nothing like the exaggerated ones in the bible.

I don't know the verse, but I'm remembering a story of jesus, refusing to resurrect someone because he didn't want to touch a dead carcass to resurrect and subsequently be unclean for 7 days, when he had to do something he needed to be 'clean' for before that. He could have just washed his hands thoroughly afterwards(like anyone with modern knowledge would do), but instead let the man stay dead, and the family continue to be in sorrow. He also could've used his unlimited power to do the resurrection without touching the corpse, I remember asking as a child why he didn't when the story was read to me, the eventual answer they didn't give was because it was just a story,

~
I repeat, I know the point he was making in the original verse, and I wasn't challenging it. It's just funny, that he used refusing to wash his hands to make a point about what defiles people. It's not something anyone who knew what we do in modern days would do, because it does completely defile you to eat with nasty hands. It's not a wise way to make a point.

~
If you would like to continue this discussion, please PM me. I don't like derailing threads, and I don't plan on discussing this any further in such an inappropriate place.

~
I'll contemplate a switch to something unrelated. Maybe something from my quote book. If not, I'll put a disclaimer up sometime soon. I hope that satisfies you.

Sorry to offend. I just thought it was a great opportunity for you. Actually, I feel the signature does get a Bible verse across to someone who may never have read the Bible. They then get curious and look up more. So I applaud the verse. Thanx for the reply.

Here is the simple truth;

Creationism is a fairy tale manufactured by TPTB to appeal to Religious minded folk
Evolution is a fairy tale manufactured by TPTB to appeal to Science minded folk
Ancient Aliens is a fairy tale manufactured by TPTB to appeal to Mystic minded folk

The truth is that we were here before, maybe many times before, and we blew ourselves all to hell. No pun intended...Charleton Heston was right. The Aliens are us and we are them.

As George Carlin said: RELIGION IS BULL#