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God. Profit from Murder and Genocide? Get serious.

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posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 12:13 PM
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God. Profit from Murder and Genocide? Get serious.

When reading the Bible, the facts show God as setting a ransom for forgiving man. That ransom was Jesus. God then sets the conditions to have Jesus murdered. Thus is how all sins, for all of eternal time, are forgiven. God does not do anything half way. After all, He would not want to break his own word and sin again.

Eze 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Psa 49:7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him.

Father God screwed up and he is having his son Jesus bear the iniquity that he himself created. An insane act.

No sane God would waste a son so needlessly. This is obvious I think to most.

This is the conclusion that one must come to, if we make Jesus part of the Trinity. This is unacceptable, as God would not murder his son.
This kills the Trinity notion.

Otherwise, God Goes straight to hell for murder.

As above, so below. The believers duty is to follow God’s example. The first commandment.

If you would NOT do such, ( murder your own son ), and you are of the Abraham religions, then you are not a true follower. You have placed yourself above God.

Rather a catch 22.

The genocide of Noah’s day would also be an example of God profiting from murder. At a wholesale price. It boils down to God having a reality that he did not like, to a position of God having a reality that he liked better. Strangely, some even say that God does not change.

The God that I know does not work that way.

If your God does, and you follow this God, you should question why you do.

To follow your God, you would have to be willing to kill your own children, as well as use genocide on the rest of mankind, as you follow an unfathomable, impossible to understand, alien God.

How does that make you feel?

Poorly I hope. Does it make you want to trade in your God for a new and improved model?

One who will not ask you to go insane with him. All that just because he found something that he did not create. Iniquity. This, God had to learn as he had not known it was in him.

Regards
DL




posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 12:35 PM
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That is a very sad rendition of the Bible.

You are skipping half the story.

It's that pesky resurrection thing again.



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 01:25 PM
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As far as I understand it, man broke with God's conditions through the disobedience of Adam and Eve and not the other way around.
So as a just being God was within His rights to consign mankind to eternal doom.
I like to view the Bible also as literature with character development, and God does have moments of regret and changes of heart (human emotions), although He cannot change His essential character of justice.
First He brings the law, when His people are still quite few.
But He announces a greater plan.

According to the Trinity Jesus is God, who returns in the guise or form of a son, and He becomes a sacrifice to Himself, but essentially a sacrifice for mankind to His own just nature.
According to some theology He does actually go to hell before the resurrection.
Thereby God fulfills His own need for justice, and replaces a law that is no longer workable.



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 02:02 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


How can God "profit" from anything? Doesn't He already own the universe??



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Perhaps God profits in a metaphorical sense when His children return back to Him in spirit, just as it profited the Father of the prodigal son to have the child that was lost (and that the father was so concerned about) returned home by choice.



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Perhaps God profits in a metaphorical sense when His children return back to Him in spirit, just as it profited the Father of the prodigal son to have the child that was lost (and that the father was so concerned about) returned home by choice.


Perhaps, what seems much more plausible to me, is that the OP didn't think too much about his/her rant before making this thread.



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by whyamIhere
That is a very sad rendition of the Bible.

You are skipping half the story.

It's that pesky resurrection thing again.


Not much of a sacrifice without a permanent death and just 3 days of R & R for Jesus.
Also rather immoral for people to try to profit from the murder of an innocent man.

Regards
DL



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by halfoldman
As far as I understand it, man broke with God's conditions through the disobedience of Adam and Eve and not the other way around.
So as a just being God was within His rights to consign mankind to eternal doom.
I like to view the Bible also as literature with character development, and God does have moments of regret and changes of heart (human emotions), although He cannot change His essential character of justice.
First He brings the law, when His people are still quite few.
But He announces a greater plan.

According to the Trinity Jesus is God, who returns in the guise or form of a son, and He becomes a sacrifice to Himself, but essentially a sacrifice for mankind to His own just nature.
According to some theology He does actually go to hell before the resurrection.
Thereby God fulfills His own need for justice, and replaces a law that is no longer workable.


Yet they waited 300 years after Jesus' death to make him divine.
Even then, Constantine had to rig the vote.

Further, sacrificing self to self is no sacrifice.

Regards
DL



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


How can God "profit" from anything? Doesn't He already own the universe??


You tell me.

He sure seems to get peeved when we do not love honor and obey him.
All of these are his needs so he does not have all that his greedy little heart wants.
Eternal hell is what he offers those who will not profit from his murder of his own son.

Regards
DL



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 12:30 PM
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There is no original sin.



Then Adam received from his Lord some words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.
Qur'an, 2:37



Therefore no reason for Jesus' sacrifice:



And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but it was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

Qur'an, 4:157

edit on 12/10/2011 by sHuRuLuNi because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi
There is no original sin.



Then Adam received from his Lord some words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.
Qur'an, 2:37



Therefor no reason for Jesus' sacrifice:



And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

Qur'an, 4:157

edit on 12/10/2011 by sHuRuLuNi because: (no reason given)


Thanks for the quote from that book of myths.
You are aware that you do not agree with most Christians. Right?

Regards
DL



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by Greatest I am
Thanks for the quote from that book of myths.
You are aware that you do not agree with most Christians. Right?

Regards
DL


Yes, I am aware of that.

Are you aware of the following:


And when Our verses are recited to them, they say, "We have heard. If we willed, we could say [something] like this. This is not but myths of the former peoples."
Qur'an, 8:31



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Thanks for the quote from that book of myths.
You are aware that you do not agree with most Christians. Right?

Regards
DL


Yes, I am aware of that.

Are you aware of the following:


And when Our verses are recited to them, they say, "We have heard. If we willed, we could say [something] like this. This is not but myths of the former peoples."
Qur'an, 8:31


Every winning side tries to re-write the history to suit their side.
All religions accuse the others of it.

Myths are myths and that would include yours.

Regards
DL

Regards
DL



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by Greatest I am

Myths are myths and that would include yours.







Leave Me with the one I created alone.
And to whom I granted extensive wealth
And children present [with him]
And spread [everything] before him, easing [his life].
Then he desires that I should add more.
No! Indeed, he has been toward Our verses obstinate.
I will cover him with arduous torment.
Indeed, he thought and deliberated.
So may he be destroyed [for] how he deliberated!
Then may he be destroyed [for] how he deliberated!
Then he considered [again];
Then he frowned and scowled;
Then he turned back and was arrogant
And said, "This is not but magic imitated [from others].
This is not but the word of a human being."

I will drive him into Saqar!
And what can make you know what is Saqar?
It lets nothing remain and leaves nothing [unburned],
Blackening the skins.
Over it are nineteen.

Qur'an, 74, 11:30

edit on 12/10/2011 by sHuRuLuNi because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


One quick question....

How did God murder his son?

I don't get it...

Is it because he was supposedly meant to die to fulfil some prophecy? And God knowing that he would die, sent him anyways?




posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


One quick question....

How did God murder his son?

I don't get it...

Is it because he was supposedly meant to die to fulfil some prophecy? And God knowing that he would die, sent him anyways?



He did not kill him. And he doesn't have a son.
The definition of God alone implies that He is Self-Sufficient. There can not be 2 of His kind, and he CAN NOT share the personality with anyone. He has to be ONE.

The mess we have today (christianity, most branches of it) results from the teachings of a deceiver, Paul, who invented most of this - mixed up with pagan beliefs - and created what is today commonly known as christianity.

The TRUE followers of Christ (his Disciples) never believed Jesus was more than a man and God's Messenger and they knew very well that he did not die on the cross - however these teachings were sistematically destroyed by Paul who preached "another doctrine" until as it came to be, HIS doctrine won while the original teachings disappeared.

Once you understand this premise - the whole conundrum about Jesus = God, Jesus = Son, Jesus = killed, etc. will automatically resolve, because there is no such thing as "original sin", thus no need for God to "sacrifice His Son" or anything similar.



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 05:18 PM
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reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 




He did not kill him.


Alright... i agree


And he doesn't have a son.


Who told you this?


The definition of God alone implies that He is Self-Sufficient. There can not be 2 of His kind, and he CAN NOT share the personality with anyone. He has to be ONE.


I Agree...


The mess we have today (christianity, most branches of it) results from the teachings of a deceiver, Paul, who invented most of this - mixed up with pagan beliefs - and created what is today commonly known as christianity.



I agree...



The TRUE followers of Christ (his Disciples) never believed Jesus was more than a man and God's Messenger


I believe Thomas called him God... that doesn't mean he was correct though...


and they knew very well that he did not die on the cross


Pole would be more accurate, whats your point?


however these teachings were sistematically destroyed by Paul who preached "another doctrine" until as it came to be, HIS doctrine won while the original teachings disappeared.


Paul did not write Mat, Mark, Luke, John, Or Thomas...


Once you understand this premise - the whole conundrum about Jesus = God, Jesus = Son, Jesus = killed, etc. will automatically resolve, because there is no such thing as "original sin", thus no need for God to "sacrifice His Son" or anything similar.
,


So why was he sent to us?




posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon

So why was he sent to us?



He WAS NOT sent to YOU.

There is a little verse there that almost ALL christians like to ignore:


He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." - Matthew, 15:24



Jesus was NEVER meant to be a universal Messenger - he was only sent by God to the people of Israel - as their last prophet to try and bring them back to the right path.

It is PAUL who then complicated things, because HE made Jesus "universal" - and this is indeed reflected in the writings of the Gospels -> since you mentioned that it was not paul who wrote them - yes, true, but it is a known fact that the Gospels were written much later than Paul - and his doctrine was already well established - so his teachings are reflected in the Gospels.

This is why we have such contradicting statements in the Gospels.



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 



He WAS NOT sent to YOU.


I disagree...


There is a little verse there that almost ALL christians like to ignore:



Im Not Christian...


Jesus was NEVER meant to be a universal Messenger - he was only sent by God to the people of Israel - as their last prophet to try and bring them back to the right path.


So the bible is the most distributed book in earths history, yet only the people of Israel can learn from what is written about him...

I believe you are wrong...



It is PAUL who then complicated things, because HE made Jesus "universal" - and this is indeed reflected in the writings of the Gospels -> since you mentioned that it was not paul who wrote them - yes, true, but it is a known fact that the Gospels were written much later than Paul - and his doctrine was already well established - so his teachings are reflected in the Gospels.


Are you accusing Paul of tampering with those books i just mentioned?



This is why we have such contradicting statements in the Gospels.


I know that, but what does paul have to do with Jesus?




posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
I know that, but what does paul have to do with Jesus?







Seriously, do you want me to bring the whole thing about Paul and Jesus and Disciples here ...?

In simple terms:

Even in todays NT there are "leftovers" of the account of what really happened between Paul and the original disciples. They had a CONFLICT with him - because he was preaching something different from Jesus. ItÄs right there in the NT, you can read it for yourself.

The Gospel writers were ALL in a way "followers" of Paul - they wrote their Gospels absolutely influenced by the teachings of Paul - as I said, Pauls doctrine was already well established.

As even Luke admits, he only wrote what he gathered from oral tradition - to simplify it more - he went around and gathered stories about Jesus from the people - now, WHAT PEOPLE`? The people that ALREADY had accepted the doctrine of Paul, and NOT that of the original disciples.

This is why you can notice an EVOLUTION in the Gospels - the later the Gospel, the more Jesus gains "divinity".

While Mark still has pretty much a simple Jesus, a MAN as his main figure, John, the last to write his Gospel, already portrays Jesus as God himself!

You SEE how the account EVOLVED.

People started to EXAGGERATE about Jesus - first saying he is "more than human", then saying he is "the Son of God", then "BEGOTTEN Son of God" - then (John) saying Jesus indeed IS GOD.

The nazarenes and ebionites who had the most authentic writings and beliefs - who believed Jesus did not come to establish a "new religion", and he was not "divine" nor was he the begotten Son of God, but simply a MESSENGER OF GOD - were all but EXTERMINATED. They were the real followers of the disciples of Jesus and they were SYSTEMATICALLY killed, tortured, persecuted and exterminated.

The more decades passed, the more were their writings and beliefs suppressed. The Gospel writers themseves wrote for an audience which was mostly gentile (non jewish) and none of them wrote in Palestine, but in places like Alexandria etc.

They adopted the teachings of Paul and modified them accordingly to APPEAL to their respective audience.


The whole thing is too long to write here about - you can check yourself - there is a lot historical material about this.



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