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Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by NOTurTypical
Perhaps God profits in a metaphorical sense when His children return back to Him in spirit, just as it profited the Father of the prodigal son to have the child that was lost (and that the father was so concerned about) returned home by choice.
Originally posted by whyamIhere
That is a very sad rendition of the Bible.
You are skipping half the story.
It's that pesky resurrection thing again.
Originally posted by halfoldman
As far as I understand it, man broke with God's conditions through the disobedience of Adam and Eve and not the other way around.
So as a just being God was within His rights to consign mankind to eternal doom.
I like to view the Bible also as literature with character development, and God does have moments of regret and changes of heart (human emotions), although He cannot change His essential character of justice.
First He brings the law, when His people are still quite few.
But He announces a greater plan.
According to the Trinity Jesus is God, who returns in the guise or form of a son, and He becomes a sacrifice to Himself, but essentially a sacrifice for mankind to His own just nature.
According to some theology He does actually go to hell before the resurrection.
Thereby God fulfills His own need for justice, and replaces a law that is no longer workable.
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Greatest I am
How can God "profit" from anything? Doesn't He already own the universe??
Then Adam received from his Lord some words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.
Qur'an, 2:37
And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but it was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
Qur'an, 4:157
Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi
There is no original sin.
Then Adam received from his Lord some words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.
Qur'an, 2:37
Therefor no reason for Jesus' sacrifice:
And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
Qur'an, 4:157edit on 12/10/2011 by sHuRuLuNi because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Greatest I am
Thanks for the quote from that book of myths.
You are aware that you do not agree with most Christians. Right?
Regards
DL
And when Our verses are recited to them, they say, "We have heard. If we willed, we could say [something] like this. This is not but myths of the former peoples."
Qur'an, 8:31
Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi
Originally posted by Greatest I am
Thanks for the quote from that book of myths.
You are aware that you do not agree with most Christians. Right?
Regards
DL
Yes, I am aware of that.
Are you aware of the following:
And when Our verses are recited to them, they say, "We have heard. If we willed, we could say [something] like this. This is not but myths of the former peoples."
Qur'an, 8:31
Originally posted by Greatest I am
Myths are myths and that would include yours.
Leave Me with the one I created alone.
And to whom I granted extensive wealth
And children present [with him]
And spread [everything] before him, easing [his life].
Then he desires that I should add more.
No! Indeed, he has been toward Our verses obstinate.
I will cover him with arduous torment.
Indeed, he thought and deliberated.
So may he be destroyed [for] how he deliberated!
Then may he be destroyed [for] how he deliberated!
Then he considered [again];
Then he frowned and scowled;
Then he turned back and was arrogant
And said, "This is not but magic imitated [from others].
This is not but the word of a human being."
I will drive him into Saqar!
And what can make you know what is Saqar?
It lets nothing remain and leaves nothing [unburned],
Blackening the skins.
Over it are nineteen.
Qur'an, 74, 11:30
Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Greatest I am
One quick question....
How did God murder his son?
I don't get it...
Is it because he was supposedly meant to die to fulfil some prophecy? And God knowing that he would die, sent him anyways?
He did not kill him.
And he doesn't have a son.
The definition of God alone implies that He is Self-Sufficient. There can not be 2 of His kind, and he CAN NOT share the personality with anyone. He has to be ONE.
The mess we have today (christianity, most branches of it) results from the teachings of a deceiver, Paul, who invented most of this - mixed up with pagan beliefs - and created what is today commonly known as christianity.
The TRUE followers of Christ (his Disciples) never believed Jesus was more than a man and God's Messenger
and they knew very well that he did not die on the cross
however these teachings were sistematically destroyed by Paul who preached "another doctrine" until as it came to be, HIS doctrine won while the original teachings disappeared.
Once you understand this premise - the whole conundrum about Jesus = God, Jesus = Son, Jesus = killed, etc. will automatically resolve, because there is no such thing as "original sin", thus no need for God to "sacrifice His Son" or anything similar.
,
Originally posted by Akragon
So why was he sent to us?
He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." - Matthew, 15:24
He WAS NOT sent to YOU.
There is a little verse there that almost ALL christians like to ignore:
Jesus was NEVER meant to be a universal Messenger - he was only sent by God to the people of Israel - as their last prophet to try and bring them back to the right path.
It is PAUL who then complicated things, because HE made Jesus "universal" - and this is indeed reflected in the writings of the Gospels -> since you mentioned that it was not paul who wrote them - yes, true, but it is a known fact that the Gospels were written much later than Paul - and his doctrine was already well established - so his teachings are reflected in the Gospels.
This is why we have such contradicting statements in the Gospels.
Originally posted by Akragon
I know that, but what does paul have to do with Jesus?