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Iranian Pastor Faces Execution for Refusing to Recant Christian Faith

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posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 02:14 PM
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After having read all the replies it's obvious to me that we have some really decent folk here on ATS.
Yes we need to turn the other cheek. But that doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye to this kind of oppression whether it be in Iran or Egypt or anywhere else. Attacks against someone based on a religious bias should never be tolerated. We need to speak out loudly against it whenever it happens.

Keep praying for this fella. He'll need your prayers even if he is acquitted.




posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
Its wronge to force him to recant and SLAYER69 is right..


I agree. I was being cynical.



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 02:29 PM
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Unless I am very wrong, this is neither the first time, nor the only place this kind of thing has happened.

It is one of the greatest inconsistencies of 'government by the consent of the governed.'

The governed in this case are not conceding to be governed, they are faithful to the religion that controls the government. So the real moment of glory will be if (and yes this is far fetched) the Iranian people themselves protested the notion that a person must be killed because he is not of their faith.

But something tells me that to do so would create nothing but hardship for the defenders of the judged.

I understand that the tenets of religion offer no quarter to those who are unfaithful. Such statements can be found peppered throughout most Abrahamic texts.... It is difficult to relate this kind of social contract to a doctrine of holding human life as a precious thing. Perhaps I am just too naive about such things.

Does anyone know if the charges were brought by his own family?



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by JIMC5499
It's their country and they can do what they want. What gives us the right to tell Iran what they should do?



Who is telling Iran what they could or should do in their own country?
Not I

But, since I live in a truly free country [Contrary to Voodoo internet Pop-culture conspiracies] I can express how I feel freely.

I think Iran's actions on this matter Sucks

edit on 29-9-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 02:46 PM
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Outrageous... I don’t care if he is a convert or not, this is a demonstration of backwards and barbaric thinking.

I hope the Iranian courts see sense and throw this out...

Peace
edit on 29-9-2011 by Muckster because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 02:56 PM
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At first glance my thoughts were something along the line of - its got to be a sick joke right?

You don't kill someone because they prey to a different (basically the same Abrahamic) God do you?

If this is for real then its got to be a wind up for the Christian (probably targeted at American) world, just like the threats of sending Iranian ships to the USA coast. What do they (the executioners) want to get out of this madness? I dont understand



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 03:13 PM
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Sure, this is one incident but that's not enough to convince me that Christians are being oppressed anywhere. Rather, they are the oppressors in most western countries.

It's telling that this story takes place in Iran of all the places. Anti-Iranian propaganda?



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 03:20 PM
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although my heart goes out to the pastor, they have a weird sense of the definition of matyrdom there. being he once was muslim and lived there his entire life i doubt that sense has gone anywhere.

and with everyone talking bad against muslims again, i seem to remember a few folks going out after 9/11 and killing some muslims/ beating them up.



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by ufoorbhunter
At first glance my thoughts were something along the line of - its got to be a sick joke right?

You don't kill someone because they prey to a different (basically the same Abrahamic) God do you?


Study a bit more history - ther have been many times when you would kill someone for praying to the SAME god...but in a different way.

And those times are still here - Shia vs Sunni violence in the ME, Catholic vs Protestant in Northern Ireland, heck even the often violent "rivalry" between Galwegian soccer clubs Rangers and Celtic has a religous aspect!

Edit: since he converted at age 19 there will be no doubt in moslem minds that he is apostate. In the mass executions of 1988 they shought to see if leftists, in particular, were "good moslems", because anyone without a "proper" moslem upbringing could not be properly accused of apostasy - the sort of questions asked were (from the wiki article):


'Are you a Muslim?'
'Do you believe in God?'
'Is the Holy Koran the Word of God?'
'Do you believe in Heaven and Hell?'
'Do you accept the Holy Muhammad to be the Seal of the Prophets?'
'Will you publicly recant historical materialism?'
'Will you denounce your former beliefs before the cameras?'
'Do you fast during Ramadan?'
'Do you pray and read the Holy Koran?'
'Would you rather share a cell with a Muslim or a non-Muslim?'
'Will you sign an affidavit that you believe in God, the Prophet, the Holy Koran, and the Resurrection?'
'When you were growing up did your father pray, fast, and read the Holy Koran?'
.
.
.
The questioners wanted to know why prisoners' fathers prayed, fasted, and read the Koran because the sons of those fathers who had not could not be called apostates. If they had not been raised in proper Muslim homes first and "exposed to true Islam," they could not be apostates.




edit on 29-9-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
Alas, the "religion of peace" shows its true nature once again.


Except this time no one can blame these actions only on a bunch of radicals or terrorists.

This time it is state sponsored - and state condoned.



No you should blame it on what hadith they follow. The Qur'an contains verses from which it can be inferred that apostasy is not a capital offense. It sounds like they are following the Shia hadith which says if a Muslim converts to Christianity then he shoul be put to death and not allowed to repent. For example, one of the shia Imams has been asked about a Muslim who has converted to Christianity, he answered "he should be killed not called to repent", and when asked about a Christian converting to Islam then converting back to Christianity, he answered "he should be given the chance to repent, otherwise killed".



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by ufoorbhunter
At first glance my thoughts were something along the line of - its got to be a sick joke right?

You don't kill someone because they prey to a different (basically the same Abrahamic) God do you?


Study a bit more history - ther have been many times when you would kill someone for praying to the SAME god...but in a different way.

And those times are still here - Shia vs Sunni violence in the ME, Catholic vs Protestant in Northern Ireland, heck even the often violent "rivalry" between Galwegian soccer clubs Rangers and Celtic has a religous aspect!

Edit: since he converted at age 19 there will be no doubt in moslem minds that he is apostate. In the mass executions of 1988 they shought to see if leftists, in particular, were "good moslems", because anyone without a "proper" moslem upbringing could not be properly accused of apostasy - the sort of questions asked were (from the wiki article):


'Are you a Muslim?'
'Do you believe in God?'
'Is the Holy Koran the Word of God?'
'Do you believe in Heaven and Hell?'
'Do you accept the Holy Muhammad to be the Seal of the Prophets?'
'Will you publicly recant historical materialism?'
'Will you denounce your former beliefs before the cameras?'
'Do you fast during Ramadan?'
'Do you pray and read the Holy Koran?'
'Would you rather share a cell with a Muslim or a non-Muslim?'
'Will you sign an affidavit that you believe in God, the Prophet, the Holy Koran, and the Resurrection?'
'When you were growing up did your father pray, fast, and read the Holy Koran?'
.
.
.
The questioners wanted to know why prisoners' fathers prayed, fasted, and read the Koran because the sons of those fathers who had not could not be called apostates. If they had not been raised in proper Muslim homes first and "exposed to true Islam," they could not be apostates.




edit on 29-9-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)


Hey I know these things go on - I just thought it was a bit sick you know..................... and on your history lessons the Irish stuff aint no religious war, its natives (who happen to be Catholic) were/are fighting against planted immigrants from England and Scotland (Protestants) who tried to (and did) take over the land and deport, kill and starve the Irish whose population today should be about 85 million, not 4. The Brits did the same to the natives in the States too



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by palg1


But that doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye to this kind of oppression whether it be in Iran or Egypt or anywhere else. Attacks against someone based on a religious bias should never be tolerated. We need to speak out loudly against it whenever it happens.

I don't know how much clout the human rights organizations have in Iran, but according to the man's lawyer, the judge in the case is acting illegally.

Nadarkhani Refuses to Repent; Awaiting Final Ruling on Apostasy Death Sentence
“Our legal system, and the list of our crimes, does not include apostasy, and according to the article of the Constitution governing the legality of a crime and its punishment, the government must insist on safeguaring the people’s rights. Otherwise it is possible for some judiciary staff to follow this precedence,” added Dadkhah.

Looks to me like a case of a judge exceeding his authority.

Link provided by EvanB



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by InshaAllah
and with everyone talking bad against muslims again, i seem to remember a few folks going out after 9/11 and killing some muslims/ beating them up.


All of which has nothing to do with Iran's State sponsored murder of someone who has a different Faith.

Nice try at deflective rationalization though.


Originally posted by The Sword
Sure, this is one incident but that's not enough to convince me that Christians are being oppressed anywhere.


Who said anything about "Christians" being oppressed? This is just demonstrating how backwards Iran can be at times. If it was a "Christian Nation" in the 21st century attempting to force a Muslim to Recant his Faith or face death many here [Myself included] would be saying the same thing!


It's telling that this story takes place in Iran of all the places. Anti-Iranian propaganda?


Nope. It's a Modern Iranian truth.

On a side note, I just love how many liberals here will go through total and complete denial and attempt justification of such actions with near super human extreme contortionist maneuvers in avoiding what is really going on there. If the US Government pulled this crap on it's own citizens the people would come unglued start screaming bloody murder while quoting George Orwell and put that [Aimlessly meandering around at Wall Street] business to shame with real riots and protests.



edit on 29-9-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 




On a side note, I just love it how many liberals here will go through total and complete denial and attempt justification of such actions with near super human extreme contortionist maneuvers in avoiding what is really going on there. If the US Government pulled this crap on it's own the people would be coming unglued screaming bloody murder while quoting George Orwell and put that [Aimlessly meandering around at Wall Street] to shame with real riots and protests.


Why do you label these people as liberals? Is it because they don't agree with you? And you really need to get a clue about the US government. We never put people on trial in this way it's too much bad PR. We just arrange an "accident" that way our hands stay kind of clean.



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 05:16 PM
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All of which has nothing to do with Iran's State sponsored murder of someone who has a different Faith. Nice try at deflective rationalizing though.


okay i'l address the issue i think it wrong what they are doing. but who am i to judge. they are addressing the issue according to their faith and accepted customs.

The pastor knows this if he isnt in prison why not just leave the country unless his death has substance, their is meaning behind it. according to him.

i dont judge the pastor for entertaining christ thats his decision. i dont judge him in the right of his followers needing a strong person to guide them in the midst of terror or rather spiritual immaturity. now they will have no one to guide them. what happens to them?

things are very sad indeed


edit on 29-9-2011 by InshaAllah because: (no reason given)


My previous post was just addressing the fact that evil is commited on both sides, i wouldnt say either is right
edit on 29-9-2011 by InshaAllah because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


what the hell?

dude hasnt been paying attention to the christians in iraq and egypt and everywhere else in the middle east?

they have been getting murdered left and right by people and their own governments.



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by buster2010
 


Why not?

Are Liberals above scrutiny?

I said "many" not all. Also, I know full well what the US Government has done. This thread is about Iran but apparently many cannot seem to focus on the topic at hand.



edit on 29-9-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by The Sword
Sure, this is one incident but that's not enough to convince me that Christians are being oppressed anywhere. Rather, they are the oppressors in most western countries.

It's telling that this story takes place in Iran of all the places. Anti-Iranian propaganda?


Lose your religion - - lose your control.

Not really so different then the Right Wing Fundamentalists trying to control the American government.

A bit more extreme - - but how much more extreme? Not that much - I don't think.



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by SLAYER69
 


what the hell?

dude hasnt been paying attention to the christians in iraq and egypt and everywhere else in the middle east?

they have been getting murdered left and right by people and their own governments.


True.

But unfortunately, posters like annee (above) don't see it as all that extreme and then worse, try to create a false moral equivalency to what Christian leaders do in the United States.



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by buster2010
No you should blame it on what hadith they follow. The Qur'an contains verses from which it can be inferred that apostasy is not a capital offense. It sounds like they are following the Shia hadith which says if a Muslim converts to Christianity then he shoul be put to death and not allowed to repent. For example, one of the shia Imams has been asked about a Muslim who has converted to Christianity, he answered "he should be killed not called to repent", and when asked about a Christian converting to Islam then converting back to Christianity, he answered "he should be given the chance to repent, otherwise killed".


People easily forget or ignore our own path.

Less then 50 years ago in America - - a Christian converting to Judaism - - was like the worst thing ever. They would be disowned by their family and shunned by the dominant Christian society. And yes - - there was sometimes violence.

Its only recently that gays have been given a voice in legal courts. Much of the time they were dismissed as having no rights - - and no right to ask for rights.

Americans should not be so smug.



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