Forbes : Fast and Furious might just be Obama's Watergate

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posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 11:02 AM
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Hopefully it will be. Thing is, the Watergate didn't end up with hundreds dead. Fast And Furious certainly did.... and it's not over yet.

"Fast And Furious" Just Might Be President Obama's Watergate

Why a gunrunning scandal codenamed “Fast and Furious,” a program run secretly by the U.S. government that sent thousands of firearms over an international border and directly into the hands of criminals, hasn’t been pursued by an army of reporters all trying to be the next Bob Woodward or Carl Bernstein is a story in itself.

But the state of modern journalism aside, this scandal is so inflammatory few realize that official records show the current director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), B. Todd Jones — yes the individual the Obama administration brought in to replace ATF Director Kenneth Melson Aug. 30 in an effort to deflect congressional criticism — also has questions to answer about his involvement in this gunrunning scandal.

Fast and Furious was an operation so cloak-and-dagger Mexican authorities weren’t even notified that thousands of semi-automatic firearms were being sold to people in Arizona thought to have links to Mexican drug cartels. According to ATF whistleblowers, in 2009 the U.S. government began instructing gun storeowners to break the law by selling firearms to suspected criminals. ATF agents then, again according to testimony by ATF agents turned whistleblowers, were ordered not to intercept the smugglers but rather to let the guns “walk” across the U.S.-Mexican border and into the hands of Mexican drug-trafficking organizations.

When the Gunrunning Program Began

A Jan. 8, 2010 briefing paper from the ATF Phoenix Field Division Group VII says: “This investigation has currently identified more than 20 individual connected straw purchasers…. To date (September 2009-present) this group has purchased in excess of 650 firearms (mainly AK-47 variants) for which they have paid cash totaling more than $350,000.”

This is an important fact because the U.S. Justice Department hasn’t made it clear to tell congressional investigators when the Fast and Furious operation began and who authorized it; as a result, this ATF briefing paper’s mention of September 2009 is thus far the earliest we can trace the operation.


The article is a long one and explains how really it all happened under Obama's watch.

Obama shouldn't just be impeached over this, he should be tried in a court of law, in the US and in Mexico.




posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 11:12 AM
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Thanks for the post OP! This needs to be brought to light more. It is yet another scandal this current administration has perpetrated upon the people of the US. I do hope more attention is payed to this bit of nastiness! S+F!



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 11:19 AM
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Thanks for being one of the ones keeping this subject in ATS's sights. The longer this go's on and the more that comes out on it, the dirtier the Dept of Homeland security and the Justice Dept look! This is not a isolated incident in the administration, this is proving to be a look at how the administration does things. What really bothers me is how low key this has been kept. Yea the media has touched on it but has not really done anything journalist were supposed to do. The deities know that if this was happening under Bush we would hear about it 24/7 and reporters would be out there turning over stones to get to the "truth"!



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 11:22 AM
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Nobody died in Watergate.



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 11:39 AM
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Naw, the Cover up would be even more brutal thats all......As it is, it pretty much raises the specter of goverment involvement directly with the Sinaloa Cartel, which was the primary recipient of the arms.
In some ways it rather looks like a goverment attempt to defeat the Zetas who origonated in the School of the Americas.being trained in all types of clandestine wafare by the US army.
Deserting from the Mexican Special Forces upon returning to Mexico, they began as hit men for the Sinaloa group i believe.
Brancing out when they realised that they had the muscle and talent to start their own org.
The US, i believe, had twofold reasons for sending weapons to the Sinaloas....
1) They wanted the Sinaloa Cartel to remain in major control of the drug smuggline
2)They wanted the Zetas eliminated as an embarrassment to the US Army and goverment.
As to reason 1, the Sinaloas and the US goverment agents of DEA, CIA,and whatever other one involved, as well as higher ups in the GOVERMENT ITSELF....are connected to this criminal enterprise, via corruption at the very highest in goverment.
Consider the Menna airport sandal in the US., precursor history to this and i think youll not be far afield.
Its far more complicated, and far deeper and more convoluted than the average citizen may want to contemplate.
This has to be independantly researched and investigated, by somebody with very deep pockets and who is immune to both criminal and goverment retaliation.
Is there suich an entity?
Just the public en masse i think.
Go get em Annonymous!
Do something real instead of screwing with peoples emails.
Hack some real time information on these subjects and youll get my support!
But thats off topic so just diregard that last........................s



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 11:41 AM
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Iran/Contra didn't break Regan [or Bush] and Fast and Furious won't break Obama...

Grasping at straws.

edit on 29-9-2011 by LadySkadi because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by stirling

Deserting from the Mexican Special Forces upon returning to Mexico, they began as hit men for the Sinaloa group i believe.
Brancing out when they realised that they had the muscle and talent to start their own org.


Just a note on that, the Zetas started out as an arm of the Gulf Cartel then branched out entering an alliance with Beltrán-Leyva Cartel and eventually engaging in a turf war against the Gulf Cartel.

According to Wikipedia article on the Zetas:
en.wikipedia.org...(Mexico)


Current alliances

Since February 2010, the major cartels have aligned in two factions, one integrated by the Juárez Cartel, Tijuana Cartel, Los Zetas and the Beltrán-Leyva Cartel‎‎; the other faction integrated by the Gulf Cartel, Sinaloa Cartel and La Familia Cartel.


edit on 29-9-2011 by Erongaricuaro because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 01:44 PM
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dont count on it

nothing can touch the potus its disgusting

alot of corruption has been found but nope nothing to see here folks

people died meh so what look how hes helpin the common folks.

this is infuriating.



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
The article is a long one and explains how really it all happened under Obama's watch.


Correct


Originally posted by VitchiloObama shouldn't just be impeached over this, he should be tried in a court of law, in the US and in Mexico.


For that to happen should there not first be clear evidence that he himself concieved of or directed the operation?

Unfortunate that this OP jumps the shark with idealogical nonsense right off the bat, because I do believe this operation was beyond reckless, cost lives and will continue to cost lives....though I do find that argument ironic comming from the "Guns don't kill people - people do" crowd


I'll wait for actual evidence that the President directed or instigated this operation before demanding he be "tried in a court of law". If we simply lay the blame of every bungled operation at the feet of each President in history then most of our former Presidents would be in Leavenworth, certainly the last one.

If this was President Obama's bright idea then he deserves the Watergate handle, but I have yet to see credible evidence. We will wait and see. With the partisan nature of DC, if there is evidence that lays this at Pres. Obama's feet, the multiple investigations and the soon to be appointed GOP special prosecutor will find it.



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 05:04 PM
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What is great about this article is the source Forbes! Not usually the type to run a article like this.
Considering the nature of this scandal somebody is being protected. At the least Holder if not the Potus. Looking at the shuffling of folks involved something big is being hidden. The official story has been contradicted a couple of times now. The wiggle room is being used up



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 07:28 PM
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reply to post by hangedman13
 





. The wiggle room is being used up


Wiggle room, indeed......

And imagine that we only know a small amount of information about what took place and who knew what. I'm telling you, an operation of this magnitude had approval from the top. The proof is there, but they are doing their best to try to shield it from ISSA....and the public.

Frankly, I don't even know why Holder is even still employed. His butt should have been canned early on.....with Obama shortly thereafter.

What has happened to our country that these leaders that are elected by the people can commit these heinous acts and have scandal after scandal come out, yet it's like we have no power to get them out? If the people make enough noise about it, doesn't there have to be action taken? Every presidency in recent times has had a major scandal and yet these leaders just continue on like it's just another day......flipping us the gigantic middle finger as they walk away smirking.



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 07:59 PM
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The articles states that Congress has been informed that there is an attempted cover up by the Justice Department. Obama denied that he and Holder had anything to do with it.

Bull#.

This is not only gun running but it puts the US Government in a legit conspiracy with a drug cartel, who knows how far this stuff goes...and why would Obama say that 90% of the guns used in the drug war down there and then go ahead and pump more guns down there? Is this some way for backdoor gun control, blowing up in his face? Heads should roll, but the media isn't even reporting this.

If an independent investigation isn't ordered anytime soon, this will be another case of sweeping things under the rug. Maybe letting this slide will be the thanks Obama gets for protecting Bush's ass after he left office.

edit on 29-9-2011 by illuminatislave because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 08:02 PM
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I would like to second the "thank you for keeping this going in ATS" for an operation like this to go on, the President would have to be notified, unless someone was trying to give him plausible deniability. Even then it wouldn't matter. The President has daily briefs that he receives everyday. I can hardly believe that no one informed him of this operation, considering it had to do with running guns from the US into Mexico. The sheer scope and magnitude of this, IMO, tells me the Pres. knew about this ahead of time.
Can we stay in the present though? This isn't about the former Presidents. We are focusing on the current Administration and bringing up the previous admin's doesn't further the conversation, it derails it. This President has benefitted from the media coverage and at other times lack of media coverage. It is very surprising to me that Forbes would have published this, shedding light on something many Americans don't think about anymore.



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by stinger94
I would like to second the "thank you for keeping this going in ATS" for an operation like this to go on, the President would have to be notified, unless someone was trying to give him plausible deniability. Even then it wouldn't matter. The President has daily briefs that he receives everyday. I can hardly believe that no one informed him of this operation, considering it had to do with running guns from the US into Mexico. The sheer scope and magnitude of this, IMO, tells me the Pres. knew about this ahead of time.
Can we stay in the present though? This isn't about the former Presidents. We are focusing on the current Administration and bringing up the previous admin's doesn't further the conversation, it derails it. This President has benefitted from the media coverage and at other times lack of media coverage. It is very surprising to me that Forbes would have published this, shedding light on something many Americans don't think about anymore.


I'll triple the thank yous by including ATS user DaddyBare, who has been keeping his ear to the ground on this as well. I remember Watergate when it was in its infancy. Rather than be impeached, Nixon resigned; I don't think Obama will do any such thing. That bastard is so damned arrogant that he thinks he can do anything he wants without consequences. I'm sure he'll go down swinging for the fences (but striking out anyway.)

I'll also echo a previous poster who said that if Obama goes down for this, then Bush should go down for his crimes as well - they BOTH have innocent blood on their hands. Imagine for just a second, in a perfect world, Bush and Obama sharing a jail cell... I wonder who the bitch would be?


Lastly, I just noticed your location. Third Mar Div?
edit on 9/29/2011 by OldCorp because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 09:26 PM
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Great article! Thanks for posting
Ive been following this for quite sometime now and it boggles the mind how little press it gets. What I have seen on MSM has been painted in a positive light...

I get allot of great emails from the NRA concerning the operation and it seems they are trying their best to get the truth out there. This organization gets things done, I'm interested to see how they handle this situation on a political level. Do they play it safe and just report the news, or do they call the proper people out on their responsibility and take them to court???

edit on 9/29/2011 by TheRealTruth84 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 09:49 PM
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if soldiers raping Afghanistan men that they dressed up in panties with a bag over there head didnt faze bush fandf is not going to faze the great orator.

two words rogue trader - lol with 2 billion dollars at his disposal - no f'n way



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 09:56 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


Real question here man, and no dirty tricks: Are you for or against the war on drugs?

Just curious.



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 10:51 PM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


I don't see this so much as a 'gun problem' or a 'drug problem' this is a race problem through and through. Mexicans can and will only being using those weapons on White citizens after they come over the border illegaly. Raping, killing, and robing every White farmer on their way.



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 11:12 PM
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The right-wing media claimed that the stimulus funded the operation; that wasn't true.

They claimed that Attorney General Holder "took credit" for Fast and Furious in a speech; that wasn't true either.

They've even claimed, absent any evidence whatsoever, that the Obama administration deliberately set up the operation to arm Mexican drug cartels in order to justify increased gun control.

In an appearance 9/2 on Fox News, Michael Sullivan, acting director of the ATF under President Bush, pushed back against such claims, saying that Operation Fast and Furious was "well within the rights of the director [of ATF] to approve or reject," and that he would be "surprised" to learn that "authorities outside the ATF" would have known the details of a specific firearms trafficking operation.

nothing to see here - i'd be more concerned about LightSquared or Solyndra ....

mediamatters.org...



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 12:15 AM
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I found this to be interesting in it's Wiki entry. I'd note this appears in many other places, but in this case, Wiki does have a way of cutting right to the heart of the matter.


Los Zetas is one of the most powerful drug cartels in Mexico[6] and considered by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration as the most violent drug cartel and paramilitary enforcement group in Mexico.[7][8] Los Zetas is a criminal organization dedicated mostly to international illegal drug trade, assassinations, extortion, kidnapping and other organized crime activities. This drug cartel, now led by Heriberto Lazcano, was founded by a group of over 30 former Mexican Army Special Forces deserters,[9] and includes corrupt former federal, state, and local police officers,[10] as well as ex-Kaibiles from Guatemala.[11]

Source (Emphasis mine)

Kaibiles was a new term to me. So I went to looking and ...ahem..Interesting is all I can say.

Marines train with Kaibiles

So we not only train them but Obama's ATF arm's them. I wonder if someone else in Government advises them in field tactics and strategy for cartel operations. I believe Obama and Bush both have a lot to answer for if the truth were to be known.





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