#1 Anarchy. #2. No Rules. #3. Burn Everything to the Ground and Start New.

I totally agree! Well, partly. I believe that we should free all land with fertile ground and plenty of wild animals for people to live primitive lives, and the rest of the land could go to modernized civilization. Simple enough eh?

reply to post by TheRiverCityAnswer

Dude - anarchy by definition means "Absence of any cohesive principle, such as a common standard or purpose."

I don't think you understood what many of us were saying. We're not laughing, we're all sick and tired of this puppet dictatorship we've lived under for umpteenth years and we're all yearning for change, but when you use words like "anarchy" and "burning everything to the ground", it sounds like you're talking about nihilistic chaos and I'm sorry but that's just not the answer. I get that it's your ideology but you posted it and need to be able to accept counter arguments.

For the sake of discussion, couldn't it be said we have anarchy now?

Doesn't everyone or every group fight to protect there own interests within the current "system", and wouldn't the absence of that "system" become a system of it's own in which everyone or group would still fight for it's own interests?

If that's true wouldn't human nature itself need to burn to the ground for the kind of change you may want to occur?

reply to post by timidgal


Good point.

I guess, I used burning everything to the ground as a dramatic metaphor for rejecting a system and being part of something more organic.

I just really feel like something BIG has to happen for humans to gain freedom.

Something New. Something, Brand New.

Your approach and idealism has been tried before, want to guess how it ended?

Yes it is so nice to preach the ideas of "liberty, equality, fraternity" but when you come to the sensible conclusion that utopianism is merely a dream, an incredibly destructive one at that, and then perhaps real solutions can be found for our problems. You would prefer to burn the whole barn down because we have a rat infestation, if your home needs major repairs I am sure you would opt to move rather than renovate the home even if they were equal in price.

Tell me; since you want a burn it all down and try over is that not a form of utopianism? We all know utopianism is the foolish beliefs by materialists in the 18th century onward beginning with the French Revolution which wanted a heaven on earth because they no longer believed in a heaven within the afterlife. Utopianism is the opium of the irreligious, a very dangerous opium which has often led to deaths on scales never before seen.

The overthrow you envision is the recreation of the French Revolution when nihilism is unleashed and the underclasses rise as mobs to punish all those they feel have suppressed them. Revolutions are the natural state of absolute equality; hence the reason Socialism calls for perpetual revolution. When nothing can stand still or organize there can be no hierarchy it is the fulfillment of equality, democracy, and individualism in their purest form. Eventually they result in people turning against each other and massive loss of life; i.e. the Reign of Terror, Gulags, Great Leap Forward, and the policies of Pol Pot.

Want to know the results of your aspirations? Look at our past 220 years it is the story of blood spilled by visionaries. It is a dangerous history causing more death than all the evils it rails against.

Originally posted by TheRiverCityAnswer


there are no rules, just a set of guiding morals; live a basic life, and do whatever you can to help other people.

Who decides what these morals are? What happens if some one does something that goes against these morals( code word for rules...) and who will enforce these morals?

Kind of sounds like we would need to arrange... you know... a government to make sure no one breaks these "morals".

I mean, come on. There are lots of people in this world and lots of people have very different morals. We would be fighting over whos morals we go by and who gets to enforce them...

We would be exactly where we are now.

reply to post by Gibbon


Yeah, I guess that's the whole point, just starting over.

Its just my raw wishes.
I'm so unhappy in this world. Me as a human being does not fit in this system and it rips me apart every day.

I dont want to march on wall street, I want to just start something new.
So Sick of old people running things. So sick of the fact that there is so much stuff to be sick about...

reply to post by Misoir


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe all of the those situations were created by revolutionaries that believed that the right type of government could solve all their problems.

reply to post by The_Phantom


Exactly my point, they believed that all the problems that have plagued man throughout history can be solved on earth and that they hold the key. It is a dangerous concept where man believes he can control his environment whereas all of society for the past thousands of years until 1789 thought that man was just part of the environment. All change must be gradual and organic; we must look to our ancestors for advice into the future.

Please read the below, Alexander Hamilton’s response best represents what I mean:
“I [Thomas Jefferson] invited them [John Adams, Alexander Hamilton] to dine with me, and after dinner, sitting at our wine, having settled our question, other conversation came on, in which a collision of opinion arose between Mr. Adams and Colonel Hamilton, on the merits of the British Constitution, Mr. Adams giving it as his opinion, that, if some of its defects and abuses were corrected, it would be the most perfect constitution of government ever devised by man. Hamilton, on the contrary, asserted, that with its existing vices, it was the most perfect model of government that could be formed; and that the correction of its vices would render it an impracticable government. And this you May be assured was the real line of difference between the political principles of these two gentlemen.”

Source

reply to post by TheRiverCityAnswer

And I think you'll find that any of us participating in this discussion are right there with you! It's finding that balance between true anarchy and peaceful rebellion that needs to be discovered. I agree that something HUGE has to take place - drastic times call for drastic measures and we passed "drastic" a loooong time ago - but sometimes the quietest resistance is the most affective and contagious (think Gandhi, etc.).

Wish I had the answers and unfortunately I don't, but it's going to take something spontaneous and somewhat peaceful to prevoke true change. In the meantime, we need to all keep thinking and talking because the answer will eventually reveal itself...

reply to post by Misoir


Right, I agree it could only happen if people agreed with it, it couldn't be forced on people, that's why it will not happen. I think it's a dream, but it's my dream. My post on the first page is about that very concept. But I don't agree that the situations you listed really fit.

By the way...I can sympathize with the desire for radical change and when I speak of human nature I am aware of the complexity of the puzzle.

I remember having deep altruistic feelings that were innate as a child. I wept for the old and lonely as a 4 year old and no one had to teach me that. I wonder if that is common to humanity. If so and good is innate to us all, then we are weak and unable to overcome the bad momentum of this world. History has proven it.

So what are we as a race? Either innately good people or innately mixed up people that keep loosing it in the end?

Either way something about us as a whole doesn't stand up to the wall in our way to that utopia we would like to see. We just keep painting crap.

Ultimately you yourself need to be the ideal. That is all you ultimately have power over. That doesn't erase the world around you and there will always be something to be sick of and weep over.

But if you ever see an old man struggling to get his groceries in the car while working a walker...offer to help. If the stakes are higher and you have to risk something to do the right thing...be smart and do it. Wise as serpents and harmless as doves. Marshal your wits to make sure you're not giving anyone around you a need to protect themselves from you. Maybe someone will notice and start doing the same.

I get exactly what everyone is saying about past revolutionaries, and societies trying and failing and it was well said.

The best intentions lead to evil, I know.

Honestly, I just want my moment in the sun.

I just want to taste it, you know?

I am so unhappy in my system, i feel so chained, like a giant pressure is built up in my head.

I want to see the stars at night, not having to pay to go into nature, no plastic in the ocean.

I know it would never last for long, but i'd have a smile on my face until the end.

I want something different.
I don't want to "burn everything to the ground" to make "guilty" people suffer.

I want something new so we all just have a chance to be humans for a while.

There is a primal need in me.

I want to be able to exist as I am.

reply to post by TheRiverCityAnswer

Very eloquently said!

reply to post by TheRiverCityAnswer


You said that well and I completely understand

reply to post by TheRiverCityAnswer


Isnt this the NWO's plan. Order out of chaos?

reply to post by Gravity215


yeah.

The NWO is supposed to come from a bunch of people looking for a leader out of a desperate situation.

It's a thin line tho, I agree. I just envision the no leader society. Impossible? Nothing is 100%

Isn't there just something with no rules that isn't chaotic? It's more of an abstract concept i suppose.

I 100 % agree with you here .

Unfortunately... Most people just suck..,

We live, as a society in a cycle, a cycle where we start, rise above ourselves, and eventually our own behavior is the very thing that corrupts and makes us fall down again...

I'm sorry to tell you, but I'm afraid we are currently living in a time where we are about to drop the mile, and it's gonna be a very long and terrifying mile this time...

We are living in a technologically advanced society... That same tech will be used to enslave us by the very thing that drags us down... It will be used to let us fall as long as possibly is needed to benefit those who will have the most to loose when we finally hit the deck.

Enjoy...

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by TheRiverCityAnswer

 

Question is, are you speaking metaphorically? I think answering that will help to further the discussion. I agree that we need sweeping changes, but I certainly don't want to start from scratch.

Starting from scratch will only open the opportunity for the same, if not worse philosophy we live by. Yes, change needs to happen, but how do you stop the ‘Machine’? Those who control the media ultimately control the views of sheeple…

Saying you're going to force something on me puts me in a heightened defensive mode. How can you convince me of something by threatening me?? Always resist tyranny in any shape or form.
Tyranny lines it's entry doors with ideologues and visionaries...once you enter, beware....changes abound.