If the US Was destroyed

You missed a pretty crucial step here. If the US were attacked by multiple nuclear weapons, they would have been detected while enroute. Using the automated systems currently in place, the preparation for launch would have been started immediately.

After the strikes, the men and women currently manning our various missile silos and ballistic missile submarines would receive the order to launch against targets across the globe (if no specific target was known).

The resulting fallout would render any economy null and void.

reply to post by Immune


So you think the UK will nothing in fear of retaliation? You mean in the same way as the US will do nothing about the crisis in Syria because of possible Russian retaliation?

Of all the scenarios I've read for the fall of the United States, the most convincing ones usually involve multiple EMP strikes. Given the likelihood of mutually assured destruction for any sort of nuclear attack or physical invasion, I don't think those ends are likely. How America falls is important for your scenario.

If there were an EMP attack, I could see the country balkanizing quickly out of necessity if there was an inadequate military response. Given how many forces of ours are posted outside the nation, given the tendency of Americans to arm up, and just the general nature of panic, the country would not hold together long. It could potentially be reformed later, but the devastation and violence would likely be crazy.

I'd like to believe people would pull together. I tend to believe they wouldn't. A balkanized America would be too much of a mess for anyone to get involved with directly, but I could imagine some promises of arms sales and financial trades for assets. That said, with America gone, the potential for a land grab would be serious.

In Europe, I'd see a renewed emphasis on building the European Union into not just a political and economic entity, but a functional military unit. With American forces recalled back to their own country, I could see a resurgent Germany forming closer links with Britain and France for their mutual protection against Russia.

Russia would probably expand influence much more strongly into central Asia, the Ukraine, and other places. Where accommodations could be made with the Muslims, they would.

China would pull Taiwan more firmly into its sphere of influence. This would not require a hot war as the absence of the American fleet would help both sides see the inevitable reality of this arrangement.

Japan and South Korea would increase relationships related to defense, including the rebuilding of a Japanese Navy to protect against potential Chinese ambitions.

As for the Middle East, who was responsible for what would matter. If an EMP happened, and it was caused by Iran, for instance, I'd expect an immediate invastion from Afghanistan and Iraq by positioned American forces there. I assume they'd be blamed in any case, and since the logistics of a withdrawal would be a mess, the American army might very well slide from civilian control to ground operational control.

The global economy would go to hell as many nations would see their exports tumble, but in the long term, regional relationships would become more important and there would be opportunities.

Eventually, America would be put back together, I think. But a lot of people would die, and America would necessarily be forced to put its money into reconstruction. It would be the basis for a real comeback in about twenty years, but the nature of our government would become much more authoritarian at home, and less involved abroad.

Just my $.02.

Originally posted by Heartisblack
No one would miss the US, no one would grieve for it. The US is considered in the cancer of the world, we're constantly in other countries affairs, poisoning other countries with our waste and the list goes on and on.
Some of the people are loud and trashy, people say disgusting things.......oh #, nobody would miss us when we're gone. I am American, I used to think this was a great country until I woke up.

Now you can smell the corruptions and lies a mile away. You make a great point, but this country is going down and falling into the #hole.

edit on 28-9-2011 by Heartisblack because: (no reason given)

you hear all the cheers for your post?


or do you hear crickets?

where are you gonna go with a US passport?

you think they will let you into their country if the US is brought down?

you will be stuck here, whining about how you love the country that destroyed your life but are ready to embrace whatever they tell you.

sounds good to me, NOT!

you will be a target practice dummy or die in the mines, lol!


"exit stage left" get out now while you can, yellow belly.

reply to post by cassandranova


emp's are so 1980's.

our military is hardened against that type of attack.

you and me ain't! lol!!

gee, "general! there is an mp3 i mean a emp going off!!"

general; "and then?"

"what do we do, what do we doooooooooooooooooo!!!"

general; "we just take em all out"

waaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

Originally posted by fooks

Originally posted by Heartisblack
No one would miss the US, no one would grieve for it. The US is considered in the cancer of the world, we're constantly in other countries affairs, poisoning other countries with our waste and the list goes on and on.
Some of the people are loud and trashy, people say disgusting things.......oh #, nobody would miss us when we're gone. I am American, I used to think this was a great country until I woke up.

Now you can smell the corruptions and lies a mile away. You make a great point, but this country is going down and falling into the #hole.

edit on 28-9-2011 by Heartisblack because: (no reason given)

you hear all the cheers for your post?


or do you hear crickets?

where are you gonna go with a US passport?

you think they will let you into their country if the US is brought down?

you will be stuck here, whining about how you love the country that destroyed your life but are ready to embrace whatever they tell you.

sounds good to me, NOT!

you will be a target practice dummy or die in the mines, lol!


"exit stage left" get out now while you can, yellow belly.

I have dual citizenship, I can park my ass in the UK and watch the fireworks. Dude, we're talking about stuff on a conspiracy website, do you really believe that somebody's gonna bring the US down ?

Is there any such 100% guarentee that American's underwater mobile nuclear arsenal could be effectively neutralized? I honestly see that as the ultimate reason why there wont be a major war between super powers anytime soon.

I'm no expert but I've heard that if one sub survived it would be devastating for the attackers? I've never heard any logical or existing way to counter the USA's submarines is basically what I'm saying.

I hope thats a good thing because all the scenario's I seen posted would not be fun to live through.

The point of this post was not the destruction of the US or what Canada would have to do to defend itself or the war.
The point was If the US was obliterated and all of its citizens died (maybe i should have gone with a plague) the fallout from the loss of a superpower economy would effect every country on the planet starting a massive downward spiral.

reply to post by Immune


Most certainly as they would stick to the same stupid corrupt system which benefits the few at the expense of the many. However if the US was to dissapear from the scene and the world changed their system to benefit all, then things like trade deficit and starvation would be gone.

Ok. Let's say a plague wiped out the United States, effectively killing all 315 million of us and leaving our lands as a quarantined cesspool of death and decay.

I figure that without us, the global economy would be better than ever. Of course, the price of oil would drop dramatically. But everything else would be in high demand.

The United States is a major food exporter. We also export billions of dollars worth of metals like steel and aluminum. Coal. Natural gas. Fertilizers. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Without those trillions of dollars worth of annual exports, the other countries would have to pick up the slack. Which means, business would be booming in just about every market.

reply to post by allenidaho


The US is a net importer, so all the countries that sell their products are going to be massively affected. Plus US customers are mostly high value, so your decreasing the market by 315 million, alot of which are high value

reply to post by allenidaho


I agree but you also must consider the fact that if these countries could feed their population don't you think they would? the problem would be the amount of land needed to produce the food that the US does china in no way shape or form could ever feed its own citizens most of Russia is to cold to sufficiently produce food Africa is a desert (most of it anyways) South America could feasibly do it just cut down the rainforest and plant wheat and corn.
yes the price of oil would drop as would the income of all the oil producing countries leading to the oil producing country's standard of living to drop and most citizens in the oil producing countries already live in poverty only a very few actually profit from their country producing oil. The world will go on with out the US but i think some massive changes to our way of life would occur including a massive drop in world population from starvation but after the world reaches a state of homeostasis where those left can support themselves things will smooth out.

And the reason we are a main exporter of steel and coal is because we have ALOT of it not many countries do which in fact will cause the price to dramatically increase for these commodities

Originally posted by Immune
reply to post by allenidaho

 

I agree but you also must consider the fact that if these countries could feed their population don't you think they would? the problem would be the amount of land needed to produce the food that the US does china in no way shape or form could ever feed its own citizens most of Russia is to cold to sufficiently produce food Africa is a desert (most of it anyways) South America could feasibly do it just cut down the rainforest and plant wheat and corn.

I hope you just joking when you say "just cut down the rainforest"

yes the price of oil would drop as would the income of all the oil producing countries leading to the oil producing country's standard of living to drop and most citizens in the oil producing countries already live in poverty only a very few actually profit from their country producing oil.

It is true that the majority of people in OPEC countrys do not profit directly from oil production, I just doubt the cost of oil will drop drastically--if the price of oil drops too much then the US would have a poor ROI (return on investment) from the Iraq war...

The world will go on with out the US but i think some massive changes to our way of life would occur including a massive drop in world population from starvation but after the world reaches a state of homeostasis where those left can support themselves things will smooth out.

Well im all for a massive population reduction, I'd just like to see all 3 of the worlds most populous nations be destroyed, not just the US. I agree that a lower world population would "sort themselves out", I just think getting to that point will be different.

And the reason we are a main exporter of steel and coal is because we have ALOT of it not many countries do which in fact will cause the price to dramatically increase for these commodities

Coal is going to be "carbon-taxed" out of the energy market, forget coal. Steel is refined from iron-ore, the US has less iron-ore than Australia or Canada (the two largest iron producing nations) and these two Commonwealth Nations main export market is China--which is a shame in the scenario you presented, as both nations are traditional allys of the US, I think it would pressure Canada and Australia to not fight against China, should China attack the US.

I like the hypothetical scenario you have presented and have enjoyed scrutinizing it, I just dont see it as the most likley outcome. Just my opinion.

reply to post by Immune


Good post.

I wish I could be upbeat about this but I just watched Panic in year zerO!
I bet you did not know that Frankie Avalon was in a post apocalyptic thriller. Great movie. Lesson learned? American's are armed and dangerous and on day two, they resort to barbarism, and its every man for themselves. Kill or be killed.

I also recently read One Second After Lesson Learned?
American's are armed and dangerous and on day two, they resort to barbarism, and its every man for themselves. Kill or be killed.

In Panic in Year Zero, American cities are destroyed by nuclear attack. A family in the hills, tries to survive a couple weeks. First thing they do, is go to get gas, get food, and get some hardware supplies. They have a trailer and a car since they are on a fishing trip.

A nice family. Man wife, son daughter. They have to hurry to get supplies though because the main highway now has 30 million fleeing people trying to get to the hills.

So since they have seen what happened from high ground, but its 4 am, they figure in a small town maybe people won't know, they could then get supplies, before anyone else does. So they outsmart the clerk, buy up a whole pile of stuff, go to the hardware store, and hold up the store with a gun, they are trying to buy from the hardware store clerk. 3 hours after the blast, they are holding up a hardware store in sleepy town. Typical nice Christian family.

Go to get gas, but the gas station is now charging 3 bucks a gallon (1962) so the dad clobbers the guy. Knocks him unconscious. Hour 4 they have now, attacked a gas station owner, and robbed a hardware store.

Hour 6, they meet a roving gang of hoodlums in a hot jalopy, family is hiding in the trailer, which is good, otherwise dad would be shot now by these three thugs. Son shoots thug, wounds him, they let them go. Big mistake. Many people will be murdered within the next week, because they let these punks go. His daughter will also be raped by one of them. Then, they will hunt them down and THEN kill them.

Meanwhile, his son will get shot by the one he shot and almost die.

And thats the story of about 10 people, and there are 30 million just like them, fleeing the blast area.

In One Second After (highly recommended audio book) the scenario is EMP.

Container ship in gulf, fires nuke missile into upper atmosphere, fries all electronics in America in one second.
Power goes out, and within a month, roving bands of cannibals are eating the last 10 percent of the population.

And this is supposed to be based on historical evidence and scientific reasoning and informed predictability models. With testimonials as to the accuracy of the information by Newt Gingrich and a sergeant who used to maintain nukes and launch codes.

Basically small town in hills, they try to stick together, but the small city close by, sends 5,000 refugees their way. 5,000

So they have to let them thorough 100 at a time. But the fact is those 5,000 are armed and its the end of the world and they are not going to stay on the road. They will be combing the hills for farms and anything they can beg borrow and steal, and will approach the town from all sides, right away, as soon as they find a gate on a road. So this story as bad as it is, fails to realize it will be far worse than that.

Guerrilla warfare on maybe day 2 if people realize it was EMP blast. Gotta get supplies before anyone else does. Gotta get ammunition. Gotta get baby formula. Gotta get insulin. Gotta get drugs for their addiction, booze, food, stereos etc.

Kill or be killed. Thats the way they are raised. Everyone knows in America all it takes is a gun to make things right.
.
The slightest little thing, and society in America could break down.
These two scenarios are big ones, but you have to keep in mind, the population is huge, and the food is not plentiful, if the trucks, and trains stop running. If the power goes out for a week, its all over for America.

Once people start to fight for survival. They burn houses, they burn everything. You think you are safe in a basement? When your house is on fire?

reply to post by Rocketman7


Epic post truly epic and scary because of the truth behind it!!! this is exactly how it would go in the US we are a nasty people who are so self absorbed in our own survival that when shtf all hell is going to break loose and we will lose more people to the looting and gathering of supplies than we lose to the bombs.
so lesson one is be prepared so you can sit home and kill every man women and child who comes to rob your stash kill or be killed

Originally posted by Immune
reply to post by Rocketman7

 

Epic post truly epic and scary because of the truth behind it!!! this is exactly how it would go in the US we are a nasty people who are so self absorbed in our own survival that when shtf all hell is going to break loose and we will lose more people to the looting and gathering of supplies than we lose to the bombs.
so lesson one is be prepared so you can sit home and kill every man women and child who comes to rob your stash kill or be killed

Whats the solution? Should we teach people from a young age what to do in case of emergency? Should we have more of a communal plan spirit? Where everyone knows what to do and what their job will be, and how to form a militia to gather together safety in numbers?

At least in Canada where I live they took our guns away, so there are a lot fewer guns to worry about.
But still they are there I suppose.

At this point it seems to me, that instincts for survival, moment to moment, will be the only factor determining if you or your family survives. The decisions you make on the spur of the moment.

One thing struck me in those two stories I quoted, which is foreign to most Canadians is what to do when you have a gun pointed at someone or have a gun pointed at you.

The impression you get from American culture is that its no big deal. And that people can get guns pointed at them, just so they can talk. And then again, if you have a gun pointed at someone, you might get shot by someone hiding somewhere.

This whole gun pointing etiquette is a tough one.

At one point in the movie I quoted, the dad is there, pulled over, ran off the road, its dark, the other vehicle turns and its headlights are blinding him in the driver seat, a voice says ok, get outta the car.

He gets out of the car hands up, but reaches in his inside pocket for his gun. Certain death under most situations I would expect. But the other party behind the headlights shoots the ground in front of him with machine gun fire.
You know, hold it right there kindof thing.

His response?

You have a machine gun???

This is what to expect I guess, except, I don't think people should expect the other party to shoot the ground in front of you.

I think it will just be like these places like Mogadishu, or San Salvidor or some place where its so common to see killings all over the place everywhere you go, you just get almost numb to it. Safer to not have a gun, and just walk, then your chances are maybe a little less than 40 percent you will get shot for sport, as opposed to getting shot right away, if you have a gun.
Unless you are Rambo.
Not good though if your wife or daughter is attractive. Face facts at that point. Its you against the world. No gun, no chance.

Something tells me sniping will be the order of the day. Which sucks when you think about it.

Sniping and setting houses on fire to flush out people.

Watch a farmhouse for signs of life, snipe the men, rape the women, then steal the food and its off back to the stronghold. Like a viking raid.

I suppose even living in a religious community didn't protect the people from Vikings.

reply to post by BO XIAN

However, God will NOT AT ALL let Israel be destroyed.
He is determined to be Israel's only support and protector.

If you must bring in religion to this.... fine...Ezekiel 22:19-22 states that Israel will be punished with destruction.
Regarding your second line, there are several verses which warn that Israel is headed towards destruction...

Good thread, i like the approach as its more about the effects of the fall compared to how you fell.

The rest of the planet will have a better futur ?
People will stop living in fear ?