From my cold dead hands! - A little Gun History

Though I am not American, I greatly admire the American Constitution (the ORIGINAL, not the bastardized version its become). So I just wanted to share something that was sent to me from a USA citizen, about countries that have implemented gun controls, and what they have meant to the lives of over 56,000,0000 people who once were FREE.

Before reading I will also state that since I was a young lad almost 50 years ago, I always had a fascination with guns, especially anything to do with the Wild Wild West. In fact other kids used to call me Davey Crockett

I have also owned a number of firearms over the years and indulged in plenty of rabbit and kangaroo shooting.

I apologize for not being able to give credit to the original source of the info below, but maybe another ATS'r does, and will post those details.

Now on to the information about the dangers of gun control:

After reading the following historical facts, read the part about Switzerland, twice.
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In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20,000,000 dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
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In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
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Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
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www.goldgetter.net...

washingtonstateeconomicdevelopment.vpweb.com...

Couldn't agree more. God created man, Sam Colt made 'em equal.

btw, Where are the trolls? Surely they'll be here shortly.

reply to post by SpaceJockey1

Great post. I wish I could give two stars once in a great while. These numbers are something people need to see and be reminded of from time to time. The truth never gets too old for the occasional repeat to keep the details fresh in our memory.

Originally posted by rbnhd76
btw, Where are the trolls? Surely they'll be here shortly.

Oh NO! Why wont anyone PLEAZE think of the CHILDRENZ!

Anyway, guns save more lives than they take.

reply to post by SpaceJockey1


A man uses his fists..............

Apples and pears when it comes to gun control, Switzerland is a relatively peaceful nation compared to others and has a lower rate of mental health issues, where as

How many people each year are killed in America because of guns? via gangs?

With one arguement another comes to light, how many American citizens have been murdered by American police because they throught the suspect was packing? Compare that to the UK stats please where they dont carry guns.

Is not a common known fact that during a suspected home invasion you are more likly to shoot a family member than a real suspect?

You can keep your guns, I live in a society with out them where I know if I get into a fight and it gets really bad only a bat or knife will be produced, but im sure I can out run a flying knife or bat but a bullit?

Reply to post by SpaceJockey1

Excellent thread.

Fits nicely with the link in my sig.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Reply to post by michaelmcclen

--A man uses his fists..............--

A man uses any tool necessary to protect what he cares about

--Switzerland is a relatively peaceful nation--

That cant be because they all have guns.

--compared to others and has a lower rate of mental health issues--

Source?

--How many people each year are killed in America because of guns?--

How about because of vehicles? Let's ban those too.

Water? Control it as well. The more control the better.

--via gangs?--

Just maybe if they could have protected themselves instead of relying on the government to do it.

-- how many American citizens have been murdered by American police because they throught the suspect was packing?--

They have been co.ditioned, just like you have been.

--Compare that to the UK stats please where they dont carry guns.--

You mean where the other means of violence went up, along with gun related crimes?

Effing brilliant move.

--Is not a common known fact that during a suspected home invasion you are more likly to shoot a family member than a real suspect?--

Source?


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


I take up your challange, list of countries by firearm-related death-rate per 100,000 population in one year

Countries with guns

United States 15.22
Switzerland 6.4
Australia 2.94 (looks like the ozzies buck the trend)

Countries without guns (except for hunting and extremly strict gun control)

Ireland 1.21
Scotland 0.58
England/ Wales 0.46[3] 0.38

Ill let the figures speak for themselves

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by michaelmcclen


LOL are you being serious?

I shouldn't be able to own a gun because there's a .00000000000001% chance a cop might "accidentally" shoot me?


And look up knife crime in those countries you listed. People kill people, guns don't fire themselves

Up to 60,000 young people, mostly male, may be stabbed and injured each year, the equivalent of more than 160 victims a day, according to a worst-case estimate for knife violence in England and Wales.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Originally posted by michaelmcclen
reply to post by SpaceJockey1

 

A man uses his fists..............

Apples and pears when it comes to gun control, Switzerland is a relatively peaceful nation compared to others and has a lower rate of mental health issues, where as

How many people each year are killed in America because of guns? via gangs?

With one arguement another comes to light, how many American citizens have been murdered by American police because they throught the suspect was packing? Compare that to the UK stats please where they dont carry guns.

Is not a common known fact that during a suspected home invasion you are more likly to shoot a family member than a real suspect?

You can keep your guns, I live in a society with out them where I know if I get into a fight and it gets really bad only a bat or knife will be produced, but im sure I can out run a flying knife or bat but a bullit?

edit on 27-9-2011 by michaelmcclen because: grammar

A dead man uses his fists, lol. Why do you think wars aren't fought with our fists?

Funny how the anti gun people fail to realize that the criminals will always have guns,even if the citizens have theirs taken away.

Pretty convient that all those people were rounded up and murdered after their governments took away their ability to defend themselves. You don't think that the two things might be connected do you? Wonder why the government is pushing to take away ours?

Since I can only give you a star and a flag, I hereby declare you an honorary American!

Thanks for the mostly positive responses so far guys!

Anyone that believes that they are actually SAFER by having gun CONTROLS in place, especially after all the examples cited, where it not only shows that the CRIMINALS are the ones that DON'T give up their guns, but those in control of the 'laws', are the ones most likely to ABUSE your perceived freedoms.

A cop only has to believe that that shiny iPhone you're reaching for is a .45 and he'll shoot you DEAD, and we aren't even talking about all those wrongful deaths...

56,000,000 exterminations in the 20th century alone, paints a fairly clear picture, no?

reply to post by mnmcandiez


The new figures indicate that in the year 2007-8 there were some 277 deaths from stabbings in England & Wales alone.

*This does not Include Scotland and Northern Ireland*

www.insight-security.com...

Homicides account for about 16,000 gun deaths in the US annually

blogalwarning.wordpress.com...

307,006,550 people live in America
61,838,154 people live in UK

So roughly 4.9 times more people, lets round it up to 5

So by laws of average in comparison 1385 would have died in a single year due to knife crime........even with these inflated figures it sure sounds better than 16,000 gun deaths.

@Lemon.Fresh - still sourcing my links for switzerland, harder than expected all im finding at the moment is links for the whole of the EU

reply to post by lonegurkha


Hey THANKS for that lonegurkha, it means a LOT to me!

The longer people continue to fight to retain their RIGHTS, the harder it'll be for TPTB, to achieve their goals, and heaven knows what they are, but I'd rather not find out the hard way, like those 56,000,000 did!

Originally posted by michaelmcclen
reply to post by SpaceJockey1

 

A man uses his fists..............

How many people each year are killed in America because of guns? via gangs?

Is not a common known fact that during a suspected home invasion you are more likly to shoot a family member than a real suspect?

You can keep your guns, I live in a society with out them where I know if I get into a fight and it gets really bad only a bat or knife will be produced, but im sure I can out run a flying knife or bat but a bullit?

edit on 27-9-2011 by michaelmcclen because: grammar

Have you ever heard the saying "bringing a knife to a gunfight"? Who do you think will win? The fact is criminals will always be able to arm themselves. It's the law abiding citizens that are negatively affected when gun rights are attacked, not the bad guys. Thankfully, we still have the right to keep and bear arms in America. The founders wanted it that way so the people of a free state could protect themselves from an overpowering Federal Government, not just common thugs.

Here is some interesting info for you:
“Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck reports that guns are used defensively about one million times per year. Ninety-eight percent of those times, not a single shot is fired, since the criminal runs away at the sight of the gun. Researcher John Lott, using fifteen surveys from such organizations as the Los Angeles Times, and Gallup, concluded that guns were used defensively 760,000 to 3.6 million times. No matter which side you err on, that is a lot of defensive gun uses, definitely more than are hurt in gun violence in any year. In light of those statistics, the question changes into: Is it safe NOT to have a gun in your house?” (www.saf.org...)

reply to post by seabag


Nice report, gun's vs guns. But its a culture thing im sure you will agree, you dont miss what you dont have and being in a country where guns are illegal I dont have to worry if someones packing.

A gun is a wepon that is used at a distance, where knives, clubs and fists arnt. you have to be in my face to use one it also takes a physical action where as guns only require to point and shoot.

Anyone can fire a gun at distance but judging by your avitar with the US army hat am I right in saying you have time served and are capable in martial arts?

I put this scenario for you, would you rather a person was standing 15 ft away with a loaded gun pointed at you (to kill you) or a man coming at you with a knife?

Its not the government im worrying about coming after me, its joe average with a chip on his shoulder!

reply to post by michaelmcclen


Yadda yadda yadda, guns are this or that... How about the senior citizen that gets attacked by a young healthy thug?? Having a gun for protection means life or death in lots of situations. You keep running off on the melee encounter tangent and how you would like the situation to be. On equal terms I agree a good bare knuckle brawl is appropiate, but by nature criminals don't hold to any rules of conduct. They are breaking the law ya know?? So a ninety year old man getting greviously injured is better then that same ninety year old pulling a gun and said criminal running or getting shot?

reply to post by michaelmcclen


I found an graph below that compares crimes committed with various weapons, and interestingly the only noticeable reduction appears to be the use of Air Weapons...I guess that a law was passed to control people (likly young hoodlums) easily accessing them. Shotguns, guns etc remained constantly the same, over the last 10 years.

reply to post by michaelmcclen


You are correct. It is a cultural thing. America was founded through the use of guns and we have a culture of guns. I’m not worried about the government coming after me either. I was referring to the founding fathers of America who fought a war of independence. They were rightfully fearful of oppressive government. The power here lies in the people...not the government.

I don’t believe guns are the problem. The people behind the guns can be a problem. There are bad guys in every country. In America (and many other countries) the bad guys are typically armed with a gun.

I spent several years in the US Marine Corps and I own a Mixed Martial Arts gym. Yes, I can defend myself. If I lived in a country where guns were not prevalent I would agree with you that defending yourself without a gun would be appropriate in most situations.

As to your scenario…in this culture I would assume the person did have a gun, not a knife. If the laws changed tomorrow and guns became illegal in America, I’d still assume the person had a gun. Laws only apply to law abiding citizens, not law breakers. Also, I would rather not go hands on with someone if my family was with me. What would happen to my family if it didn’t go in my favor? My ultimate responsibility is to defend them, not throw down with someone because it’s the manly thing to do.

reply to post by SpaceJockey1


Apples and pears, my stats are for deaths, how many times a weapon was used is not what we are comparing here , not trying to be rude or anything, but if you can walk away from an incident im not to concerned about it.

Aire rifles are not banned, they are seen as an immitation firearm is our laws. Althrough if you do own one they cannot be of power greater than 250 fps +10% anything greater than that is illlegal, supposedly you require a UKARA liscense for them but no laws requires you to have one , its more of a unwritten rule, you cannot buy a military coloured BB gun unless its two tone in bright colours. (used to help run a 52 acre air soft site here in NI)

@Seabag, Im the same. Time served but no TOD's (Diagnosed with chrons before my Afgan training , auto discharge)
Back to topic, my scenario is for my country where, there is no real gun crime you are conditioned not to worry about someone packing heat, you get into a fight worst they can pull on you is a knife and even at that in the UK carrying a knife is a automatic 5 year streach.

So your in your car, you get approached by hoodlums and all you have to worry about is a knife, thats easy lock doors and drive away, remember a knife requires a physical action where as a gun doesent, he cant shoot a knife at you!

And its the same in a fight they have to be up close and personal. Think about it logically if your saying you want a gun to protect your self whats to stop the other guy from having a gun to commit the crime on you, so basically its mutual destruction like nukes. At least in a fist fight or a knife fight you have a chance of getting away , where as with a gun , its pull trigger and nite nite.

Thats the point im trying to convey