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Sunspot 1302 Continues to Turn Toward Earth

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posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by asperetty
reply to post by Maxmars
 


I think I might have watched the hearing where yu got this quote from. Reps from the Heritage Society(Foundation?) were speaking on the valid threat of EMP attacks from enemy countries as well as from the Sun and had proposed that the US set aside funds to construct some type of EM deterring box around transistors and generators and all other sorts of equipment that supplies us our electricity and would be affected by an EMP. I think the cost was some 200 Mil to effectively protect our eletrical infrastructure. Maybe 2 bil? Either way, it certainly was not expensive, and the benefits of preparedness far outweigh the costs. But then they were suggesting SMART grids for the nation, and I know many people here don't support that prop. Still, the phenomena is not being ignored and that is what is important for now.
edit on 27-9-2011 by asperetty because: (no reason given)


I had done some looking a good while ago, another aspect was I recall, concern for the age of US transformers in use, and also that those transformers, (or some type of transformer) is not even made any more, and that if there was some kind of EMP, (I understand there are different gradings like E1 to E3) there would be a big problem in coming back on line. I'll look for the old links, both for the transformers and this EMP conundrum, I may be wrong, but I thought that there is a scenario whereby the earth could be hit by a solar triggered EMP- like geomagnetic storm, when the magnetosphere is massively deflected temporarily. Something to do with the modulation, I think.
edit on 28-9-2011 by smurfy because: Text.




posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 


Well at least this is something genuine to worry about. Just think of all the nonsense that people worry about that could not possibly have any effect on us. From Alien invasions to HAARP and so many TEOTWAWKI dates
have been perposed as to expect something to happen any day. This is I believe the first time we should actually take note and prepare for something to happen. Keep your Ice trays filled, coolers ready, candles and flashlights ready with plenty of batteries, generators and cars fueled, plenty of propane for the barby, canned goods stocked, water supplies full, ETC and then relax cause there's nothing else to do. While preperation is practical, we should not lose our heads. we need to keep our calm even when the enevitable disaster does happen. It's probably best to stay inside and listen to news on the radio. Those that will survive the longest will be those that are prepared, calm and protected. There's no telling how long the power and utilities will be down so it's best to wait before venturing outside and only at odd hours when most wont be around. Vigilance is the best defense for a bad situation!



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by nosacrificenofreedom
 


I could sign up to that, Maxmars has been very forthright without scaremongering with the info he has given in the thread.



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by 2PLUS2IS22
 

If you believe it is "carefully crafted wordplay" to use correct terminology, so be it. Solar flares do not produce an EMP.

Geomagnetic storms do not produce an EMP which can damage car batteries or electronics (unless they are plugged in). Geomagnetic storms do not produce an E1 or E2 pulse which are the EMP effects which do that sort of damage (not sure it can damage car batteries though).

As I said, geomagnetic storms do produce an effect similar to an E3 pulse.

Like a geomagnetic storm, E3 can produce geomagnetically induced currents in long electrical conductors, which can then damage components such as power line transformers.[23]

Because of the similarity between solar-induced geomagnetic storms and nuclear E3, it has become common to refer to solar-induced geomagnetic storms as "solar EMP."[24] At ground level, however, "solar EMP" is not known to produce an E1 or E2 component.

en.wikipedia.org...



Yes, it's true we have only been able to record x-ray flares since the 1970's. I did not claim that the 2003 flare was the strongest which ever occurred. But the the 2003 flare may have matched that of the Carrington event.

We found that in each of these categories the 1859 event had close peers or superiors.

www.leif.org...

My point was that the 2003 flare was an extremely powerful flare which did not do any damage. My point was in agreeing with Maxmars' doubts about this statement.

"....Solar Flares cause Electromagnetic Pulse (EMPs) and EMPs can cause serious damage to the electrical power grid and literally fry computer components at power stations, in cars, and even in airplanes."

Solar flares do not damage electronics or power grids. Geomagnetic storms may damage power grids but they do not damage electronics or car batteries.


edit on 9/28/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 


When we were getting hit a couple of days ago my computer kept shutting down and glp was down as well..So if its not the magnetic wave or the cme then what is it..Hope i said that correctly..im tired



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 


Thank you.

Kind of makes you wonder about all the threads and people saying 'Nothing happened on the 26th-27th nothing will ever happen!"

I wonder if we'll still see a yet larger X class flare? Shaping up that way



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 12:49 PM
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1302 is a big sunspot for sure, but in the 1600s the Sun was seen to have many of them, and they were very organised. Of course there was no electrical infrastructure to be affected, or all the electronic devices, but I wonder what the Sun going into this phase again would do to our modern world?




posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 02:13 PM
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Are you saying that solar flares can cause problems with electrical infrastructure? They can't


A massive solar flare can knock out power infrastructure for months...



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by abeverage
 


there's no point trying....
I gave up. I just hope others have the wisdom to find out the information for themselves and not listen to everything stated by strangers on an internet forum, regardless of how knowledgable they may appear. Sometimes an answer may be part of an agenda.



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by abeverage
 


A massive solar flare could knock out electric power for months.[8]

Did you see the reference used for that statement?

It's this article:
www.dailymail.co.uk...
What does that article say?

The resulting solar storm could cause a geomagnetic storm on Earth, knocking out electricity grids around the world for hours, days, or even months, bringing much of normal life grinding to a halt.

Geomagnetic storms pose a danger to electrical grids. Solar flares do not.

CMEs cause geomagnetic storms. Solar flares do not.
CMEs are not the same thing as Solar flares.

edit on 9/28/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Phage you are correct that CME’s and Solar Flares are different phenomena and I usually respect your responses and being a man of science am glad to see a voice of reason.
I will not argue CME's and Solar Flares are different solar phenomenon. Nor do I doubt that you are somewhat right. I will argue that a strong enough Solar Flare will harm us if it was strong enough to go through our atmosphere or penetrate our magnetic field. Gamma Rays and X-rays are not healthy for life and CAN affect electronics!!!

en.wikipedia.org... a Solar Flare runs the spectrum of radiation from Light to GAMMA and Neutron! AND THOSE AFFECT ELECTRONICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why they can kill satellites!

Now for strength how do we know the sun cannot unleash a large enough flare? WE DON’T!

www.nasa.gov...
They state that yes our sun is stable and won’t produce such an outburst but a sun like ours can? Now do they really know? They have a good idea, but science is full of surprises... and a powerful enough solar flare would Destroy many electronics and effect the gride and possibly END all life on this planet end of story!

But to say it cannot happen is incorrect and just shows you want to dismiss the OP. I am sorry but there is a very very valid reason to respect and fear what our sun can do and not just dismiss the power our star has.

Oh and I will be photographing the sunspots (for size and count) just like I always do, later today. So maybe you would like to stop quoting what you know and do some actual science?
Here is an old one now it looks like maybe I need to post some newer ones
SUNSPOTS
edit on 28-9-2011 by abeverage because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 03:55 PM
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My phone has no connection or whatsoever, doesnt send any messages.
Internet isnt working properly.
Can not visit dutch websites etc.
Dont know if there are more people in Holland having these problems?
My first thought was the emp but meh, dont know if im the only 1 having these problems..



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by abeverage
 

The atmosphere absorbs x-rays and gamma rays. That's why our x-ray and gamma ray telescopes are in orbit. Neutron radiation is also mostly absorbed by the atmosphere, that's why the detectors are placed on high mountains.

But now we've gone from the effects of geomagnetic storms on infrastructure to the annihilation life on Earth. Quite a leap.

They state that yes our sun is stable and won’t produce such an outburst but a sun like ours can? Now do they really know? They have a good idea, but science is full of surprises... and a powerful enough solar flare would Destroy many electronics and effect the gride and possibly END all life on this planet end of story!
There is no evidence that all life on Earth ever ended, yet in spite of that and in spite of the fact that the Sun shows no evidence of being capable of producing such an outburst, you cling to the idea that it could happen. No evidence that it could happen so we have to resort to the fallacy of an argument from ignorance.

It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not been proven false (or vice versa).

Argument from ignorance may be used as a rationalization by a person who realizes that he has no reason for holding the belief that he does.

en.wikipedia.org...







edit on 9/28/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by sabalsis1972
 



maybe this is it : here my new theory!: the sun spot are huge, earth could imerge into the hole very easy!, this is how sun protect its eggs(planets),perhaps now it is time to get inside the sun , the hole planet must go inside the sun(nest), this would be the only way to protect Earth by the collision ( possible) with an alien planet or space station or nemesis or Melancholia, Nibiru, elenin......maybe now it is the Time to go in another dimension in this manner.....today is the 4-th day that i am surveying the sun with my binoculars and i can not believe that i see what i see 3 huge cracks in the sun ( one in a billion years image for me).


OK, creative. But BINOCULARS????

Since you can still see to type, I'm going to assume they are some kind of binoculars with some type of sun filter? Like welding masks?
I sure hope so....



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 


Anything COULD happen........ buy why worry about it and not live life to it's fullest? Be prepared for the worst, but always hope for the best.

Phage this isn't directed at you, you seem to know what you're talking about
Thanks for all the info by the way!



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 06:25 PM
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For the basis of this thread, and it's desired intention I think an extract from the executive report,

Report of the Commission to Assess the
Threat to the United States from
Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack

Is enough for people to take note of for their own purposes.

'Geomagnetic storms, a natural phenomenon driven by the solar wind, may, by a different physical mechanism, produce ground-induced currents (GIC) that can affect the electrical system in a manner similar to the E3 component of EMP. Disruptions caused by geomagnetic storms, such as the collapse of Quebec Hydro grid during the geomagnetic storm of 1989, have occurred many times in the past'

It does not enlarge on that for obvious reasons, and that includes any possible damage to animals. I don't give a flying sh... if all technology got scrambled, I do if people are harmed, an EMP weapon or fallout will harm people, I don't know if a Geomagnetic storm of any strength, (which may or may not be relevant) has that ability.
NASA itself has talked in the past about the potentials around the solar maximums, including the lead up to the present which has yet to peak. Kudos to Aestheteka for his/her contributions.

www.empcommission.org...


edit on 28-9-2011 by smurfy because: Text/link.



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 06:35 PM
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reply to post by smurfy
 


this may help:

"ground-induced currents (GIC)"

these would be currents,,or electro-motive Force,,
stored in the proper shielding,,12/2 wire,, AND A COPPER earth ground,,
ie :rubber,,porceline,,etc,,
too be able to " leap from this shielding "
due too the need of the " go too ground " laws.
ie: don't touch open electrical, wires.

This force field of impedence,, or resistence, is overcome
by the natural " inductance "
created by the influence of a " magnetic build up " around the wire,,
" weaked impedence " or resistence ,,cause the Force
,, or Electromotice force,
spark,horse power, current, etcc,,
to free its boundaries,,
to travel too much further boundaries,
, ie ground.
than what would be normally the case.
when in a low magnetic inductance ,,zone. ( see inductince magnaton readings.)
Bobathome.


edit on 28-9-2011 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-9-2011 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-9-2011 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 08:01 PM
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reply to post by BobAthome
 


Thanks Bob, though I was meaning in the area of radiation reaching the surface, or for that matter GIC as noone seems to deal with that, it seems those things are less dealt with than vunerable technology solutions, (BTW what I said about electrical systems, I should have said the likes of our media toys) it goes without saying that it is important that emergency services and systems should be capable of staying in place, and that begs the question is anything actually being attended to protectively? so many grey areas. Last reading I had was that there are 370 large transformers in the US and each one would need 3 years to replace, again, I'm not sure that alone is based on local replacement, if that is possible as of now, or worldwide?



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 08:16 PM
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reply to post by smurfy
 


"the likes of our media toys" dont care,, would give retail a boost,,
but other more critical systems,,,
ya another cost saving,,idea,,
after all who needs,,farrad shielding,,
,um i know,,why not just prevent it at the source,,all that is needed would be

ie Dynamo Room,,,or,,,Server Area,,,and back up system,

,i know too costly.
well see,,i hope ,,there right.
and its not needed,,
but still gonna be costly,
if starts popping transformers,,high inductance units,,to begin with,,,oh well,



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 11:38 AM
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reply to post by BobAthome
 


This is one transformer with terminal damage in Salem, New Jersey, 1989.

science.nasa.gov...



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