It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Ethnic Conflicts in Bulgaria - Civil Unrest - Deaths, burned houses and flipped cars

page: 1
20
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 06:00 AM
link   


The spark of the unrest was in the village of Katunica, where on the 23rd of September a young bulgarian athlete was run over intentionally by a car by a relative of "Tzar" Kiro - a well known gypsy alcohol boss. The news spread fast and soon young nationalists, ultranationalists and football fans were travelling with trains to the village from all over the country.

There, several houses of Tsar Kiro were burned, as were several vehicles. There were fights occurring between Bulgarian and roma mobs. Soon police and gendarmery squads had the village occupied.

There was at least one death confirmed and more than a hundred hooligans detained.

Since the events of Katunica violent ethnic conflicts have arrived in many Bulgarians cities, including the capitol and my own town. Police and gendarmery have been dispatched to many big cities. Ultranationalist parties are protesting in the capitol.


On a personal note, to be perfectly honest with you, I even got a call last night. My friend told me people were being recruited in neighbourhoods to go to the gypsy ghetto on the edge of town. 500 Bulgarians were fighting roma mobs in the gypsy ghetto. I'm staying out of trouble, of course - unless the "trouble" comes to me, that is.

There has long been ethnic tension in my country and many people are trying to make politics with these tensions, so there is, for me, the very real prospect of nothing less than civil war.

I am sorry there are not many good sources available in English yet. I guess no one is interested, haha. I will try and keep this updated.

Also, please excuse my poor English.

You can use google translate, for an approximate translation, I guess.
www.vesti.bg...
www.dnes.bg...
Conflict in Varna


This is from Plovdiv, the second largest city.


"Improvised" protest in the capitol following the events in Katunica



edit on 27-9-2011 by falseveils because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-9-2011 by falseveils because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-9-2011 by falseveils because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 09:07 AM
link   
This is an interesting story, you'll need to keep this thread updated. Event's like this don't make the news here in the US. My question is what are the odds of it spreading beyond Bulgaria, it's my understanding these Roma are spread all over Europe, and are a closely knit group.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 09:36 AM
link   
Well this is what I call the news, not the story about new Paris Hilton scandal.
Thank you for posting and keep us updated.

I was not aware of ethnic tensions in Bulgaria and I am sad to hear that they exist but I can't say that I don't understand Bulgarian people. Sometimes its hard to go along with Roma people because of they culture but I hope that will change. Fighting wont bring anything good.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 02:23 PM
link   
Wow!!

I was just in the city center. There were several mobs of no less than two hundred people with flags singing songs. We got out of the center and I watched the live news report on TV (on my phone) - they said everything in the town was quiet and there was no violence, just a few people handcuffed on the ground. A little later we went back to the center. I got a call not to go any further in, the gendarmery was teargassing people, everyone was running. Later on my cab was stopped because of a mob of no less than a hundred people running from the cops across the street. They were with vests, helmets, shields, the whole drill. I even got a small video, but the quality is extremely bad. I'll try and upload it tomorrow.

I heard they were going to the gypsy ghetto again and the police was ready to occupy the area. Looks pretty hairy so far. I'm all for optimism, but if anyone else gets killed this is going to get very nasty one way or another.

update:
www.dnes.bg...
edit on 27-9-2011 by falseveils because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 02:44 PM
link   
reply to post by dario86
 


The Roma may be hard to get along with, but its not only because of their culture and because they are a closely knit people.
Lets be fair, for centuries they have been persecuted and are still being discriminated, everywhere in Europe



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 02:56 PM
link   
Similar problems in Hungary. Seems pretty insoluble on both sides.
My observation is that ruthless, raw global capitalism has made these tensions a lot worse all across Eastern Europe. And there is a very high percentage of Roma in Bulgaria, Romania and Hungary.

Bear in mind this is not a problem like African Americans in the US, Asian immigrants in Australia etc.
The Roma had also been victims of the Holocaust in these countries.
They are also disproportionately represented in organized crime, frequently preying upon their own ethnic group.

I don't see much of a solution to this problem in Bulgaria or in Hungary or Slovakia - except economic growth with a more humane, inclusive society with very aggressive and attractive integration programs.

The local Fascists have a different solution. (Think camps and piles of skulls.)



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 03:00 PM
link   
There is no way to integrate these people. Not to mention we're the poorest country in the EU. How are we supposed to throw enormous amounts of money to give free stuff to gypsies. Nobody is going to stand for this anymore.

I have to go now; will be glad to discuss the issues with the roma later on.
edit on 27-9-2011 by falseveils because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 03:07 PM
link   
Bulgarians hate gypsies. Hate them. They basically feel gypsies are the lowest form of life, lower than Turks even(surprising given the history), and are there just to mooch of their society. I don't see a solution to this problem. I'd actually say, something like this has been bound to happen for awhile, given the history between gypsies and Bulgarians.

My fiance is Bulgarian, and her mom was just visiting earlier this summer. We talked about the Bulgarian/gypsy dynamic, and I was somewhat surprised to hear how Bulgarians feel about them. Bulgarians basically feel gypsies don't bring anything positive to society, don't do honest work, don't learn the language, don't send their kids to school, and expect the government to help them, even though they don't contribute to society. Some of the gypsy neighborhoods are extremely rough.

Anyway, my fiance is at work right now, and I will ask her about it later. Her entire family is in Sofia, so it'll be interesting to hear from some who live in the middle of it.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 03:25 PM
link   
I have a friend who is from Sophia,it's tragic that Bulgaria cannot overcome it's ethnic issues

this apparently goes back 5,000 years!! Bulgaria has an astonishing ancient past, I started watching these videos about the archaeology of Bulgaria and started watching the thread comments turn into racial hate diatribes !

it was bound to come to a head ,there is a crazy high level of hate and resentment over there



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 03:26 PM
link   
I found this article relating to the Ethnic troubles in Bulgaria.

It seems the Leader of the Nationalist Party tried storming the Presidency over the troubles. This could be the spark that leads to BIGGER trouble.

I hope not. Stay safe.

www.novinite.com...
edit on 27/9/11 by Cobaltic1978 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 03:41 PM
link   
I drove through Bulgaria last year and spent a pleasant holiday next to the Black Sea.
I was doing some research there and in Romania and one song really summed up the ambient (inland, not on the coast, which is touristy) - Nevena Tsoneva sings a Bulgarian folk song "Delio Haidutin"



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 03:50 PM
link   
There are also protests in northern Czech Republic against the Gypsies who had savagely attacked ethnic Czechs while yelling racial slurs.

Thread

I also read on the EU Times (not sure if it is a good source) that the Bulgarian government buildings were stormed by National Union Attack. Its leader tried to enter the Presidents building but was blocked from entering.

What it seems like to me is that racial tensions are heating up in Eastern Europe and to a lesser degree in Western Europe. With Geert Wilders gaining in Netherlands, Sweden Democrats entered parliament, the FPO in Austria is set to take power and polls show 42% of youth support them, the SVP in Switzerland is to hold power this year, Marine Le Pen is gaining ground in France, and the True Finns surged in Finland to third place this year in the election now polls show they are number 2 in polls. In Hungary, my ancestral home, the conservative Fidesz had won huge in the election last year with the socialists collapsing and Jobbik surging into government, polls now show that Fidesz is 59% and Jobbik is second at 18%. Jobbik had won its first mayoral seat in a town which had faced Gypsy problems back in April.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 04:20 PM
link   
reply to post by Misoir
 



What it seems like to me is that racial tensions are heating up in Eastern Europe and to a lesser degree in Western Europe. With Geert Wilders gaining in Netherlands, Sweden Democrats entered parliament, the FPO in Austria is set to take power and polls show 42% of youth support them, the SVP in Switzerland is to hold power this year, Marine Le Pen is gaining ground in France, and the True Finns surged in Finland to third place this year in the election now polls show they are number 2 in polls. In Hungary, my ancestral home, the conservative Fidesz had won huge in the election last year with the socialists collapsing and Jobbik surging into government, polls now show that Fidesz is 59% and Jobbik is second at 18%. Jobbik had won its first mayoral seat in a town which had faced Gypsy problems back in April.


I think we are witnessing the results of a disasterous muliticultural experiment.

Or maybe this is the plan? If history is anything to go by we all know what nationlism results in. I hope not, but fear it is going to be so.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 04:29 PM
link   
reply to post by Cobaltic1978
 


I pray multiculturalism ends but I also pray no blood is shed in the process. We do not need supremacists coming to power or genocidal lunatics. What we need are reasonable people who want to protect our nations and civilization. I just hope that the necessary reforms are done democratically rather than through violence like a Mussolini or Hitler.

Personally I think we need nationalism but not in the 1930s sense of the word; more along the lines of protecting national identity in a democratic way. The best way to do that in Europe is to dissolve the centralization of the European Union and for both Europe and United States reinstating former immigration laws which are strict requiring money, health and morality tests, learning the language and history, having someone sign for them before they move to our country, and not allowing any welfare benefits until after 2 years of paying taxes as a legal permanent resident.

Hopefully the goal of globalization is not mass internal civil/ethnic/racial wars because that would be a nightmare for all of us. But I also do not want our civilization to die. Western birth rates are already plummeting and our share of the world's population is below 10% now yet we still invite others in when we cannot afford it and our culture is on the edge of the abyss.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 04:30 PM
link   
I live in a small town with a large and vocal gypsy population. I know several personally. As they say here, there are good gypsies and bad gypsies. It's gypsies en masse which the whites don't like. Village gypsies who grow up alongside whites and with white friends tend to be quite different to gypsies who grow up in town and city ghettos. Gypsies are biologically mature earlier than whites and their main concern in life is having a large, strong family. The fact that they earn child benefit from each baby has encouraged them to breed more. This is angerring the whites as their Social Insurance payments keep the gypsies. Gypsies don't really get the concept of 'job' or 'career'. They're hard and fast workers when paid to do something like plastering a room or laying concrete or sawing a log pile, for which they'll earn cash, but since the end of Communism they have largely remained unemployed despite being regularly offered jobs. Under Socialism you either worked or went to jail. Everyone worked, even gypsies (usually doing manual work on a collective farm or in a factory, etc). Gypsies are not stupid (unless heavily inbred), they worked out early on how to milk the social welfare system.
Every morning I watch gypsies (even toddlers) hanging upside down in the local rubbish container, doing their 'shopping'. There are many like that but there are some decent ones who are extremely warm, generous and giving - a few have been damned good to me over the years.
I hope it doesn't kick off, Kosovo-style, between the whites and the gypsies but unemployment and poverty are on the increase and someone always has to take the blame...



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 05:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
I have a friend who is from Sophia,it's tragic that Bulgaria cannot overcome it's ethnic issues

this apparently goes back 5,000 years!! Bulgaria has an astonishing ancient past, I started watching these videos about the archaeology of Bulgaria and started watching the thread comments turn into racial hate diatribes !

it was bound to come to a head ,there is a crazy high level of hate and resentment over there



I have a lot of respect for Bulgarians having worked with many. They have as you say a rich and fascinating history, which, despite the yoke of communism, has survived in the hearts and minds of the people.

Thus it pains me to hear of this strife. There is an obvious problem with obvious symptoms, but the root cause seems to never have been addressed.

Having seen how romanies have been treated in Ireland down the years, I have to wonder how they wound up in such a position. The answer based on my own observations is that they have been ostracised by the system we call society. They fail to rise to it's standards primarily due to their nomadic tendencies and non-nuclear family structures. Their ways make them difficult for our 'legal' systems to deal with them.They are essentially playing a different ballgame.

Consequently they have been stigmatised and ostracised. They do what they can do get by, some even become very wealthy. They have found, much like banks and corporations, that fraud, crime, embezzlement and violence are a fastrack to their ends.Surprise surprise!

I suspect the case in Bulgaria and much of Europe is similar, though the romanies in question are largely of a different ethnicity, my point being that it is not so much an issue of ethnicity, rather a clash of cultures and social philosophy.

If the Roma were allowed to integrate better they may well have done so and could be an asset to their hosts. Instead they are on the road to ruin, pushed all the way by a dominant, pervasive and monolithic social ethos which is damaging us as much as them.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 05:21 PM
link   
No sane person could say there is a solution in today's society. I should repeat that Hungary is very similar - last year we had a Romanian sportsman murdered in a disco brutally in open view by Roma mafiosi. That and other events sparked ethnic threats and a few murders.

However, I have seen many exceptions from poor Roma backgrounds. One is the Buddhist school in the poorest district of Hungary with Roma students and mostly Roma staff - started by a Gypsy-rights activist who is Buddhist. They generally do not lead the lives of the underclass most of us literate people would never accept or support.

I should say that I remember Communism nearly succeeded in integrating the large Roma minority in Hungary. (Not that I ever wished the Soviet empire's return in any way.)

Yet, should I have an overly positive evaluation of this group collectively, immediately I am accosted by their dark side. Beggars, break-ins, extortion and mafia, abusing welfare services are the least.
Should I condemn it, the Universe brings me cases of open prejudice and violence of "whites" against them.

That is why I think presently there is no solution and that more and more clashes and actually a sort of war can be expected.

The Roma were the biggest losers en masse of the changeover to globalist capitalism in Eastern Europe.

I still think it is mostly a sociological problem and not due to genes or race - although bad patterns may surface in families for generations in my psychological experience. Remember though that these people were as a race persecuted by the Nazis as well.

However, today's society does not even integrate its own middle class of the same ethnicity, has become extremely predatory so one cannot expect sane behavior - if your family is attacked by violence, you will react unless you are a Buddhist monk -but then you will have no family to start out with.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 07:26 PM
link   
Anyone smell a fascist regime similar to Norsefire from V for Vendetta? Because that we are seeing ladies and gentlemen



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 10:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by notsosunny
reply to post by dario86
 


The Roma may be hard to get along with, but its not only because of their culture and because they are a closely knit people.
Lets be fair, for centuries they have been persecuted and are still being discriminated, everywhere in Europe



As long as their "culture" is based on being leeches and thieves... they are going to have problems. I lived in Eastern Europe for the last 6 years and saw how they operate. I have a tough time wrapping my mind around using the term "discriminated against" in reference to the "Roma".



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 12:52 AM
link   
reply to post by expat2368
 


Okay, I'm back. Here's my take on the gypsy issue.

First of all, one of my best, life-long friends is a gypsy. We were best friends in primary school. We both finished high school. He works now. His father and mother have worked all their life. His sister goes to school. He's one of the most polite people I know. He is fully integrated into Bulgarian society.

In conversations with the aforementioned friend he explained to me that gypsies recognize different "races" of roma. Many of the tribes have been here as long as the slavics and protobulgarians He said among the roma themselves some tribes were accustomed to fair labor and some were simply not.

In my personal experience we are dealing with a tightly knit society totally incapable of adapting to our world. They deal with crime and terror. They steal. Pick-pocketing, straight out robbery, stealing of cables, any metal they can get their hands on. One of the few places you can buy heroin in Varna is "Maksuda" - the gypsy ghetto. They live in total misery. They rely on social benefits from the state and sell their votes on an industrial scale every time there's elections.

There have been many programs established to integrate the roma. They were handed out homes and land for free. Not me, though.. I'm just Bulgarian. They were handed out books, so education can be absolutely free.

I know of the story when they gave the gypsies in Silistra several apartment buildings. Within no more than A FEW WEEKS.. there was no METAL OR GLASS IN SIGHT. Sold for recycling. There were DONKEYS AND HORSES in the building. There were fires in the apartments (to keep warm).

These people cannot by integrated into society by any means currently known to man. And I don't think it's adequate at all for us, the Bulgarian people, citizens of the poorest country in the EU to throw massive amounts of money to give gypsies free stuff. Although now we have to, since our politicians decided it was in their interest for Bulgaria to be in the glorious union and we must emulate their mind numbing moral systems and understandings for the sake of our westernization (read: "civilization").

I don't even care if there is no obvious solution for the moment. Just stop providing these social parasites with the means to continue their degradation of our already troubled in many ways and by many parties society and culture. I just want to live a normal life and not be afraid to walk on the streets of my own homeland, knowing I pay the taxes that bought that gypsy that mugged me his knife..

And I sure as hell won't stand to be lectured from some American "titan of morality" who thinks having their issues with African Americans means he has any understanding of ethnic issues around the world.

Sorry for ranting. I know I'm stereotyping a lot of people, but that's what words do. Ask Richard Bandler if you don't believe me.

tl;dr - being gypsy is not bad. being a social parasite is bad.

P.S. Ok, more ranting. When you actually go to gypsy villages and ghettos around the country you often get called "Raya". This is a term that came from our half-millenia long enslavement from the Turkish Ottoman Empire. It's kind of a social group of infidels (to the muslim faith). I don't know what the correct translation is, but everyone from my grand-grandmother to my history teacher in high school explained to me it meant "herd" and "animal". You won't see any comment on discrimination against Bulgarians from the roma, huh.

No one cares. No one is looking out for our interest. Not the government, nobody. Who will you turn to for protection, for change? No one in sight. Well.. looks like people just took to the streets and displayed their rage. Not just here though. I guess you might say we're behind, even. The whole world is on the edge of social collapse, IMO. And rest assured, no crisis is going to waste.



new topics

top topics



 
20
<<   2 >>

log in

join