It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Death Panels Come To The UK

page: 2
9
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 06:51 AM
link   
Ok, lets first bear in mind this is only a report by a think tank of Doctors who don't have to worry about the political ramifications of something like this. Then, this report has been spun so wildly by the Daily Mail it is dizzy and vomitting everywhere.

This isn't policy and, to be honest, won't likely be policy. It would be political suicide. Just look at the huge u-turn NICE was forced to do afew years ago when it denied drugs to terminally ill patients.

Besides, with the cost of Cancer care going up, the Government and drug companies are likely to suddenly come up with "new" treatments that are cheaper and can cure Cancer, at a price still but a lower one. After all, they need us workers to be fit and healthy...

Already, there are some quite magical treatments in the pipeline and several highly placed peeps in the medical and pharma world have gone on record saying they envisage Cancer being one of those "manageable" diseases, like HIV or diabetes. They make more money out of a manageable disease than a terminal or cureable one....




posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 06:54 AM
link   
Maybe if the UK stopped importing so much genetic scum then there would be funds available and proposals such as this would end up in the bin.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 06:58 AM
link   
Death Panels coming to a grandmother near you
next in the USA...

That why we do not want state ran
healthcare.

Next it will be the children born mentally retarded,
I mean after all, they are just a waste of space and a drain on the system.
Being poked fun of and stared at, drooling over themselves, not even knowing what is going on, that is no life at all, what loving parents would let a child live like that? True ... The ultimate end result of empathy free Darwinism
edit on 27-9-2011 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 07:03 AM
link   
reply to post by stumason
 


The fact that these doctors have been commissioned to talk about it means that it is very much on the table.. It probably would be political suicide but then again that boils down to how they spin it too.

I am glad that newspapers like the DM (oh the irony) wax lyrical about the very possibility of such a thing lest it gets bought in under the radar as it were..



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 07:03 AM
link   
Well my opinion is that if you pay into a system all your life and work hard to pay into that system you have the right to any medical treatment that can save or prolong life. If there is to be a panel making a decision based on cost of treatment rather than medical need, it seems to go in the face of what Doctors are meant to be doing, saving lives!!.

No doubt this so called death panel will be made up of people who no doubt can afford to have the best of private medical care and need not worry about a reliance on the NHS, but for the rest of us it is our life line and I think it is immoral for a panel of any kind should have the power over life and death, the main focus for any medical professional or medical organisation should always be the saving and prolonging of life, no price can be attached to that and no one should have the right to deny a person the right to life no matter if that life can only be prolonged by expensive drugs or care.

A little less spending on military adventures by the British Government, such as the recent actions in Libya at a cost of over a billion pounds, could be money better spent on saving lives rather than taking them away through military actions all over the place.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 07:12 AM
link   
"A little less spending on military adventures by the British Government"
Spot on my pal, lets sort out our own mess, in our own country and leave the 3rd world to there own devices. We have been messing around in other countrys for the past 500 years. And what a mess we have made! After all charity begins at home eh?



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 07:12 AM
link   
reply to post by SpecialAgent25
 


Let’s say it costs £50k to extend someone’s life by an average of 12 months, whose treatment do you cut to afford that £50k? That is the decision that HAS to be made.

It’s easy to live a fantasy where everyone can just magically happen without costs but that is not the stark reality.


A little less spending on military adventures by the British Government, such as the recent actions in Libya at a cost of over a billion pounds, could be money better spent on saving lives rather than taking them away through military actions all over the place.


Do you honestly think we are £1bn away from everyone living a long healthy life? Even with an extra billion there will still be treatments that are unaffordable and decisions as to who gets priority will still be made. The question will still have to be asked “do we use this £1bn so cancer patients can live a few months more or do we use it to treat something else?”



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 07:15 AM
link   
reply to post by popsmayhem
 


Every country should aspire to have something like the NHS.
It is only when we Brits go abroad and see the health care available in other countries that we appreciate the NHS.
And that is why we are so passionate about it and care very much about what happens to it.

Perhaps if you cared to set aside your pre-conceived political bias for a while and actually enquired about the role of the NHS in Britain and the excellent service it provides everyone, maybe you will be able to appreciate it's benefits and why it is endeared by so many here and why we want it to continue and even improve it's service to a level we know it can achieve.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 07:28 AM
link   
reply to post by andy06shake
 


And what, dare I ask, do you mean by this? I bet you're one of the "patriotic" idiots who give the rest of us proud Englishmen look like racist football hooligans...


Originally posted by SpecialAgent25
A little less spending on military adventures by the British Government, such as the recent actions in Libya at a cost of over a billion pounds, could be money better spent on saving lives rather than taking them away through military actions all over the place.


Not really. The NHS budget is actually around 5 times the total defence budget. Add onto that the Welfare budget (the single largest Government expense and around 50% of all Government spending) and the Military budget/spending is but a drop in the Ocean.

It's an easy target though to those peave and love types who claim we could all live inn a Utopia if it wasn't for those damned Soldiers... A totally malicious lie, but it is repeated none the less.

reply to post by EvanB
 


Who commissioned it? I didn't see that in the DM. Facts aren't their strong point after all



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 07:32 AM
link   
I imagine its a supply and demand situation, we(UK) supply the old people and they(fascist totalitarian government) demand that they die!

least we remember these people(our Grandparents) fought in 2 world wars to protect our way of life!
edit on 27-9-2011 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 07:49 AM
link   
reply to post by andy06shake
 


So you’re just going to stick your fingers in your ears and go “lalalalala”, clinging to hyperbolic rhetoric while other people actually have to deal with the real world costs and constraints?



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 07:52 AM
link   
reply to post by stumason
 

It looks like death panels of a sort have existed for a while now..


Patients with terminal illnesses are being made to die prematurely under an NHS scheme to help end their lives, leading doctors have warned In a letter to the Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who care for the terminally ill claim that some patients are being wrongly judged as close to death Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid and drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous sedation until they pass away But this approach can also mask the signs that their condition is improving, the experts warn.


Source



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 07:54 AM
link   
In my opinion this Guy, Gerry Robinson should be employed to help sort out the NHS. He once did a documentary about fixing an NHS Hospital and his changes made a real positive difference to the hospital. If you could sort out the managers you could make a real difference.




posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 07:57 AM
link   

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by popsmayhem
 


Every country should aspire to have something like the NHS.
It is only when we Brits go abroad and see the health care available in other countries that we appreciate the NHS.
And that is why we are so passionate about it and care very much about what happens to it.

Perhaps if you cared to set aside your pre-conceived political bias for a while and actually enquired about the role of the NHS in Britain and the excellent service it provides everyone, maybe you will be able to appreciate it's benefits and why it is endeared by so many here and why we want it to continue and even improve it's service to a level we know it can achieve.


What it can achieve?
There going to be killing off old people now, is that what you wished to achieve?
The people from your country in this very thread have said what a drain the illegals are
using the system not paying in. You call the government killing off old people is something to admire?
That bloated healthcare system is destined to fail, only a matter of time now.
Why American do not want it, just look at it falling to pieces in britian.
edit on 27-9-2011 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 08:06 AM
link   
reply to post by popsmayhem
 


Are you suggesting that everyone in the US gets whatever treatment they desire regardless of cost? That’s not what happens to my knowledge.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 08:07 AM
link   
We live in a world that has taught most people to value greed over life itself. This panel should have looked at why humanity tolerates a for profit medical system. Today many are called into the profession because of how much they can earn instead of how much they can benefit humanity.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 08:15 AM
link   
"So you’re just going to stick your fingers in your ears and go “lalalalala”, clinging to hyperbolic rhetoric while other people actually have to deal with the real world costs and constraints?

I could stick my fingers anywhere you like pal. Dont matter what i do, things are just going to get worse until we remove the scum at the top. Oh yeh im Scottish and with your countrys behavior lately dont think you have a leg to stand on eh? Riot on dude!!! Proud English Man, thats a joke i hope! Atleast we can keep our Chavs under control!



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 08:16 AM
link   
reply to post by popsmayhem
 


But it's not falling to pieces and it's not failing.

Yes, it is mis-managed.
Yes, there is endemic waste.
Yes, there are the occassional horror story.
Yes, there are issues with the benefit system and free loaders being a drain on resources.

But all of those can be addressed, even those that are more directly related to social and political issues.
And that would benefit and help improve the service provided by the NHS.

Yes, there are genuine concerns about the direction Cameron's administration is taking the NHS.
But the vast majority of people in this country receive more than adequate treatment from dedicated staff regardless of the severity of their illness or ailment and regardless of social or financial background and standing.

No-one is killing off little old ladies...yet.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 08:28 AM
link   
reply to post by WhoKnows100
 



We live in a world that has taught most people to value greed over life itself. This panel should have looked at why humanity tolerates a for profit medical system. Today many are called into the profession because of how much they can earn instead of how much they can benefit humanity.


Can you respond to the point I made on the first page that has oddly (or is that predictably?) been ignored;

You could say that they [pharmaceutical companies] shouldn’t make a profit or that profits should be capped but if you do that then what incentive is there to invest in new drugs and treatments? If you look at where investment in new drugs comes from and where it goes you will find that markets that have a cap placed on prices and/or profits see much less investment. We can have cheap/free drugs if you want but that would come with a slower pace of development for new medicines.

Also at what stage in the development process does the moral duty end? So the investors must accept smaller dividends to bring the price down, but does that include the pensioners whose fund depends on those investments? What about the scientists and engineers who design the drugs and make twice the average income, should they take a pay cut? What about the factory workers who manufacture the drugs do they have a moral duty to reduce their pay since that also adds to the price? What about the truck drivers who transport them? What about the petrol station owners whose profits add to the distribution costs? If you bring together everyone who makes a profit out of that 40k headline cost then you will have far more people than just the “fat cats” on the board of Johnson and Johnson.


reply to post by andy06shake
 



I could stick my fingers anywhere you like pal. Dont matter what i do


But it does! As long as the majority think the way you do, that if not for the immigrants, chavs and wars we could have all the care we like and that costs don't really apply to us then we'll have idealistic but totally unworkable policies based on this delusion rather than sensible but harsh solutions to the problems we really face.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 08:40 AM
link   
reply to post by Mike_A
 


For this drug in particular, it was developed by British researchers at the Institute of Cancer Research (ICR) and the Royal Marsden Hospital.

Royal Marsden? Oh it's an NHS hospital! It doesn't look like J&J paid after all, it was you and me.. through our tax dollars!

What happens is that researchers ( not always funded by big pharma) sell the results of their results to big pharma. then big pharam markets them.

Look, I understand what you are saying. But to try and justify 40K for a course of treatment ( treatment in this case = a few extra yweeks of life) is in my view immoral when a course of treatment for Viagra costs 6$. It cost 600$ million to develop it!

There is something seriously wrong with society when life extending drugs are about a profit. You want to have guaranteed hard ons, then you should pay out the ear, you want to have your life extended for a few weeks it should be minimal cost.

At the end of the day the right thing should not have a cost associated with it, profit should NOT trump the right thing to do.

In our society an erection is cheaper then a few extra weeks of life, no amount of profits or lack there of can justify that in my view.



new topics

top topics



 
9
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join