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How was Jesus' Crucifiction the Ultimate Sacrifice?

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posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:26 AM
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I was raised Christian, and like so many of us as time went by lost my faith. I ask this question not to incite, but to learn. Most importantly, I hope this thread remains respectful.

Jesus is God. In essence, he is the physical version of the God of the Heavens.

God is the Creator. He created the Heavens and the Earth, and holds dominion over them. Heaven is Gods house and nobody can kick him out.

Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice. He was crucified for our sins as a means of allowing us mortals to enter into Heaven.

If Jesus is God, and God always has a place in Heaven, what was so ultimate about Jesus being crucified?

To me, this is like a magician making the ultimate sacrifice of sawing himself in half. Sure, to the crowd it might seem heroic, but at the end of the day the magician knows he will be just fine.




posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by soldita
 


Everything that happens is God's will.
Well first off God is the creator as you stated, and we are his creation, correct? With just that, can't God do as he Wills with his creations? Just as you do with your own belongings.

And Jesus had nothing to do with God still having a place in heaven, Jesus was the bridge to enable Man to be capable of entering heaven blameless.

-marcus



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:33 AM
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reply to post by soldita
 


contradiction in the bible #9879535083539083485345



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:34 AM
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reply to post by buildingthenations
 


I appreciate your reply, but that in no way answers the question.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:38 AM
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Because Jesus died sinless, it kind of went against Gods old way of sinners must die. By dying sin free it allows us to ask God for forgivness of our sins and enter heaven.............


Something along those lines.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:41 AM
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reply to post by soldita
 


It was the ultimate sacrifice because God gave Jesus, his own Son, to be sacrificed so that we can have life. He sacrificed Himself for every sin to be committed. So His Believer's may have life and be able to be clean before God.

answer it?



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:45 AM
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It is the Death/Rebirth Cycle of deity that has existed since mankind invented the need for God(s). It reflects the cycle of the year where death and rebirth are the main factors. The deity "must" die and be reborn to (fill in the blank) for mankind. The Jesus myth is really a retelling of older stories and common(at the time) myths involving a "son" of God(s) coming to earth to save mankind.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:47 AM
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reply to post by woogleuk
 


I am sure some babies have died without sin before Jesus did. So Jesus needed to die without sin? Otherwise stated, God needed to die without sin?

But didn't God sin, killing people, or because it was God doing it, it wasn't considered a sin?



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:51 AM
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reply to post by soldita
 


The crucifixion has many significant parts.

1. Proof that God so loved his creation that he actually came here as a man to teach us.

2. His life and death show how we should live our life’s and to what extent we should be willing to go for our faith.

3. Jesus questions God in the hour of judgment as an example that it is ok for us to question our god when bad things happen. This theme is prevalent throughout the bible, but when Jesus does it he is teaching us.

Mathew 9 (1-8)
Getting into a boat, Jesus crossed over the sea and came to His own city. And they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven." And some of the scribes said to themselves, "This fellow blasphemes." And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, "Why are you thinking evil in your hearts? "Which is easier, to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up, and walk'? "But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins"--then He said to the paralytic, "Get up, pick up your bed and go home." And he got up and went home. But when the crowds saw this, they were awestruck, and glorified God, who had given such authority to men.

5. Jesus forgives the sin of his crucifixion on the cross to prove that all sin is forgivable to God; it is through his resurrection that we know that he had the authority to make this claim. Honestly if one does not believe in the resurection than Christianity has no fondation. The entire foundation of Christianity is the promise of love and eternal life. If Jesus was not resurected as a man the claim for eternal life is baseless.

So I believe the crucifixion and resurrection proved many things the most important is love.

Is there anything more loving that one person can do for you than to sacrifice their own life to save yours?

When I finally understood this message I wept like a child. I am not perfect but the thought of committing sin now makes me sick to my stomach, before understanding I knew right from wrong but found it easy to chase after all the wrongs of the world. My message to all of you, read or listen to (like I did) the entire bible with an open heart. I cannot make you a believer but God can if you will let him.

I encourage you pray for only one thing God's will in your life. I promise God knows what is best for you.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by redbarron626
It is the Death/Rebirth Cycle of deity that has existed since mankind invented the need for God(s). It reflects the cycle of the year where death and rebirth are the main factors. The deity "must" die and be reborn to (fill in the blank) for mankind. The Jesus myth is really a retelling of older stories and common(at the time) myths involving a "son" of God(s) coming to earth to save mankind.


^ but that is according to man.. man is fallible.
Jesus, God's son, or one of your so called "son of God(s)" gave epistles straight from the word of the true God.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:51 AM
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He never died that is the key point don't get caught up in the cruci-fiction. www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:53 AM
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But Jesus was the son of God, man is born into sin because of Adam and Eve, Jesus was Gods way of rectifying this situation.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:54 AM
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reply to post by buildingthenations
 


No. Because you say in one sentence he gave his Son, then he gave Himself. Which is it?

If he gave his son, I would deem that kinda sacrificial. But certainly not the ultimate sacrifice as people have given much more for much less throughout history. Further, what was he sacrificing, his time on Earth? Who cares about that, Christians would give up every minute of their futures on Earth to be in Heaven and Jesus was guaranteed a spot in Heaven, right?

If he gave himself, he once again being the ruler of all knew he was going to Heaven, so what was the big deal?



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:57 AM
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Originally posted by soldita
reply to post by woogleuk
 


I am sure some babies have died without sin before Jesus did. So Jesus needed to die without sin? Otherwise stated, God needed to die without sin?

But didn't God sin, killing people, or because it was God doing it, it wasn't considered a sin?


Those babies weren't God in the flesh though first off..

And God has never sinned, he is a God of mercy and also a God of jealousy, the people God had removed were because of their paths in life. God's Will.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:59 AM
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Originally posted by soldita
reply to post by buildingthenations
 


No. Because you say in one sentence he gave his Son, then he gave Himself. Which is it?

If he gave his son, I would deem that kinda sacrificial. But certainly not the ultimate sacrifice as people have given much more for much less throughout history. Further, what was he sacrificing, his time on Earth? Who cares about that, Christians would give up every minute of their futures on Earth to be in Heaven and Jesus was guaranteed a spot in Heaven, right?

If he gave himself, he once again being the ruler of all knew he was going to Heaven, so what was the big deal?


Jesus-God's Son is God the father in the flesh. Part of the Trinity, which is God the Father. God the son. and God the Holy Spirit, which all together are one. not three different gods



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 02:02 AM
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reply to post by soldita
 


I do not fully understand the trinity and I don't believe anyone does. But the fact remains that God uses the same terms when describing Jesus the son, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit. An understanding of scripture will tell you that this would be blaspheme if all three were not actually one and the same. God does not blaspheme himself so it must be accepted as true.

Jesus sacrifice was not as much for death as for the resurrection. It is the resurrection that is the foundation of Christianity not the Crucifixion. The Crucifixion and death are significant in their own right but the resurrection was the proof to man that Jesus had the authority to claim forgiveness of sin and eternal life.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 02:03 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


Thank you for the reply.

"Is there anything more loving that one person can do for you than to sacrifice their own life to save yours? "

This is the crux (pun intended) of my question.

Yes, without a doubt that is the ultimate sacrifice. But my point is, Jesus knew for a fact his "life" was not over, he was simply leaving Earth and going to Heaven.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 02:04 AM
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reply to post by soldita
 


I think the point of Jesus dieing is to show that even us mere mortals, "even though the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak" mere mortals, can enter into the "kingdom of God."

I don't think that God can be kicked out of Heaven but I also think there is some sort of collecting of souls going on. Jesus' death was a roadmap to some sort of a place I can only imagine as being non-corporial.

Just my two cents.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 02:04 AM
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reply to post by buildingthenations
 


Job's family?



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 02:07 AM
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Originally posted by soldita
reply to post by woogleuk
 


I am sure some babies have died without sin before Jesus did. So Jesus needed to die without sin? Otherwise stated, God needed to die without sin?

But didn't God sin, killing people, or because it was God doing it, it wasn't considered a sin?


My issue with this, not what you said, but the whole part about babies, is that even though some babies die without committing sin, one would think they would be entitled to go straight to Heaven, right? Wrong.
If the baby was born out of wedlock, if that baby should die, it would be interred to hell. If the baby born out of wedlock should live to be an adult and have offspring of its own, not only would it still go to hell upon death, but so would 10 generations of it's offspring afterwards.




“No one born of a forbidden union may enter the assembly of the Lord. Even to the tenth generation, none of his descendants may enter the assembly of the Lord. Deuteronomy 23:2



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