"Occupy Wallstreet," the Communists in sheeps clothing.

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posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 12:44 AM
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reply to post by TsukiLunar
 

wow, i've stumbled upon an agent ... ok, let's see what you think you know.

without the assistance of Wiki, let's start with a definition. source

Communism - 1a : a theory advocating elimination of private property b : a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed
2 (capitalized) a : a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics b : a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production c : a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably.

so, now that we have a selection of definitions, please clarify which one you think applies to the communism or communistic approach supplying this protest and/or it's objectives.

hint -- Aside from a capital letter, there is no difference.
in communism, there are no individual rights, there are no needs greater than another and there is no use of the supplies on an 'as needed' basis. (see any communist country for vivid examples)
we in agreement so far?

communal living occurs in nearly every capitalist city in America. how do you figure they are practicing communism?

here's some of the history associated with Communism

Various historians have studied the history of communism, including Robert Service and Archie Brown, many of whom have taken a negative view of the ideology, which they viewed as having a tendency towards authoritarianism, totalitarianism and for allowing human rights abuses.
--- snip ---
Some Marxists tried to adapt to these criticisms and the changing nature of capitalism, for instance Eduard Bernstein emphasised the idea of Marxists bringing legal challenges against the current administrations over the treatment of the working classes rather than simply emphasising violent revolution as more orthodox Marxists did.
Wiki just for you

alternate source explaining the minute differences between communism and socialism.

cooperatives are a communal business model yet, not communistic.
communes encourage communal residential experiences without a hint of communism.

IF communism is so grand, why are all of the countries who practice forms of it, failing miserably?
and since so many are failing, which part of the communistic principle still holds true?
the ppl contributing or the government hoarding?

in a communistic society, who decides which need is addressed and when?
of those countries practicing forms of communism today, which of them do you find desirable enough to reside?

the blanket statement that communism is the answer is BS.
hasn't worked in any country it's been tried, so why would America be any different?
we value individual rights.

i've met many communists myself, amazingly all of them reside in America.
(one has to wonder why?)
communism has been shoved down the throats of Americans all the days of her existence ... 200+yrs of trying and still yet, even here, it has -0- influence ... that isn't likely to change anytime soon.

btw, courtesy and manners dictate that you respond to my question first.
besides, i have no need to answer the question you posed, as you already did.
for you to assume that i am either a communist or capitalist is a bit narrow-minded wouldn't you say?




posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:05 AM
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reply to post by Honor93
 





wow, i've stumbled upon an agent


Cover is blown it seems.




IF communism is so grand, why are all of the countries who practice forms of it, failing miserably?


China?




in a communistic society, who decides which need is addressed and when?


A leader?




the blanket statement that communism is the answer is BS.


I never said that...




I've met many communists myself, amazingly all of them reside in America. (one has to wonder why?)


Why not?




communism has been shoved down the throats of Americans all the days of her existence ... 200+yrs of trying and still yet, even here, it has -0- influence ... that isn't likely to change anytime soon.


Not even close. Communism has plenty of influence all over the world.




btw, courtesy and manners dictate that you respond to my question first.


I am not taking your test.




besides, i have no need to answer the question you posed, as you already did.


Well played. I didnt think you caught that.




for you to assume that i am either a communist or capitalist is a bit narrow-minded wouldn't you say?


Your right, it is. Are you socialist? Its cool man, to each his own(except if you're communist)



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:19 AM
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What phrase I never got was "Wolf in sheeps clothing". Because that phrase implies we're the sheep and that we have a Shepard. So who is this Shepard and why is he making deals with wolves, or is our Shepard just incompetent? In fact why do we have to be sheep? How come we all can't be wolves, or is that just to bloodied for most?

OT: As for the wallstreet thing, good on them. Always gotta remind whoever has power or wealth that we at the bottom still hold a voice, and still have the true power. This goes with Government as well as corporations.
edit on 9/27/2011 by Mcupobob because: Switcho
edit on 9/27/2011 by Mcupobob because: Fix'd up your post for ya, should run fine now.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:43 AM
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reply to post by TsukiLunar
 


You mentioned 'communal living' as being communist. What about 'communal dieing'? It is relevant, no? Well, since over 100 million people have been murdered in the name of 'Communism' in the twentienth century alone, I suppose your view may change, if you happened to end up in the 'wrong' community. Perhaps all of those who lost their lives, due to communist leaders: Stalin, Mao,and Rouge were free to choose their 'communal' death beds. (BTW, have you read any of the witness statements of how babies and other young 'communal' were put down? Read about it sometime. Make a game of it, 'they' did.)

I feel like some youngsters have the misconception that communism is a grand social party that just throws their daily earnings into one big pot and live happily together. Sadly, the most common shared 'pot' is in no way monetary, rather it's a melting urn of death, sorrow, fear, and disease.

The ONLY happy communists are the commie LEADERS, which is exactly why they will throw every penny they have into fooling the youth into it's fantasia. It's more like the carnival Pinochio was lead to, only with much dyer consequences. Capitalism is death to commie wanna-be-leaders, wihich is why they will stop short of death to destroy it's lively-hood.

BTW, you pick China as an example of current Commie success stories? Really? Let's see if you feel the same way, after a vacation to the country. How many dead female newborns willl you step over before you change your mind?
edit on 27-9-2011 by SourGrapes because: so many spelling a grammar errors. ARGH it's late!



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by rbnhd76
 


I suppose anyone who speaks out against the bankers is a "communist" to you.

My lord, the ignorance on here.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:53 AM
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Originally posted by TsukiLunar
I don't know why people bash communism. It IS the reason we have survived as a species till now. You should thank communism for getting us to the point where its even practical to practice capitalism. We owe a great deal to communism- your life for starters.


Well, I will try and explain it to you and anyone else who has heard the glorified version of their red college professors and the agents of obamanomics.

Ever hear the word "gulag"? Well Alexander Solzhenitsyn was a prisoner in a Russian gulag. He wrote a book about his experiences, called "the Gulag Archipelago". It gave an insider's look at the Soviet prison camps for the first time. Later on, after the Cold War ended, the Soviet archives were opened to indeed prove that the camps existed.

I don't know where you came up with your claim that communism somehow allowed us to practice capitalism, as Karl Marx wrote his manifesto in order to break Capitalism. It is a shame that the schools have been so greatly infiltrated by red professors that people do not understand what happened in the early part of the century.
Karl Marx advocated the abolition of bourgeois private property. That is probably the biggest part of what communism is, because this whole property thing is what spurs the class warfare. The communists hated the Tsarist rule over Russia, and thus revolted. They murdered the Tsar and his children in cold blood, that is, after they forced Nicholas to abdicate his throne.This was part of the Bolshevik Revolution. Lenin authorised the murder.
They set up a military dictatorship and put dissenters and bourgeoisie merchants in prison. The revolution was violent. Lenin led the revolt and headed the Communist Party.Lenin also worked in the Russian Social Democratic Labor Party, for those who still believe that Socialism has nothing to do with Communism. Now, there was a revolution in October, fittingly called the October Revolution.
Notice how there are protests set for October with these Day of Rage people. The Soviet Secret Police, called the Cheka, was set up. This was the predecessor to the KGB.

If you happened to have heard the name Leon Trotsky thrown around, he was nother prominent Russian communist leader.

Lenin did preside over murders in the name of Communism

In Kharkov there were between 2,000 and 3,000 executions in February–June 1919, and another 1,000-2,000 when the town was taken again in December of that year; in Rostov-on-Don, approximately 1,000 in January 1920; in Odessa, 2,200 in May–August 1919, then 1,500-3,000 between February 1920 and February 1921; in Kiev, at least 3,000 in February–August 1919; in Ekaterinodar, at least 3,000 between August 1920 and February 1921; In Armavir, a small town in Kuban, between 2,000 and 3,000 in August–October 1920. The list could go on and on.[94]

en.wikipedia.org...

Stalin was more notorious in the murderous bloody rampage. Stalin presided over a great famine in Russia.

As a result, the USSR was transformed from a largely agrarian society into a great industrial power, and the basis was provided for its emergence as the world's second largest economy after World War II.[2] However, during this period of rapid economic and social changes, millions of people were sent to penal labor camps,[3] including many political convicts, and millions were deported and exiled to remote areas of the Soviet Union.[3] The initial upheaval in the changing agricultural sector disrupted food production in the early 1930s, contributing to catastrophic Soviet famine of 1932–1933, one of the last major famines in Russia.


theen.wikipedia.org...

The gulags were a system of prisons for dissenters against The Party.


The Gulag (Russian: ГУЛаг, tr. GULag, IPA: [ɡʊˈlak] ( listen)) was the government agency that administered the main[1] Soviet forced labor camp systems. While the camps housed a wide range of convicts, from petty criminals to political prisoners, large numbers were convicted by simplified procedures,


14 million people passed through the Gulag "labour camps" from 1929 to 1953, with a further 6 to 7 million being deported and exiled to remote areas of the USSR, plus 4-5 millions passed through "labour colonies", which meant to confine the prisoners serving short (less than 3 years) terms.[9] The total population of the camps varied from 510,307 (in 1934) to 1,727,970 (in 1953).[6] According to a 1993 study of archival Soviet data, a total of 1,053,829 people died in the Gulag from 1934 to 1953.[6] These estimates exclude those who died shortly after their release but whose death resulted from the harsh treatment in the camps;[10

en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 27-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 02:03 AM
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reply to post by TsukiLunar
 


Now, lest you think that the brutal murders of the tsar and the gulag prisoners, and even members of the Party itself, is all there is to the evil of communism, there are those of us who remember hearing in the news about the long bread lines. There was scarcity of imp[ortant items like bread and meat, and people had to wait in various lines to get each item. This is the result of centralized planning of all the means of production, which is what the communist system really is, regardless of the prison system or outright murders. Along with all this, the collectivist farms didn't work out so well, and there were famines, and they did not have a good grain output. Some of us remember hearing about how the US had to give Russia loans for grain, because the farms goofed it up. If you google, you can find accounts on blogs of other people who remember this stuff or researched it.
People were forced into professions, and the govt controlled who got jobs where and who got the good jobs. So all that wonderful stuff you keep hearing about how there is going to be social justice and everyone is going to be equal is just not true in actual practice. What you will see is what Obama is doing now, giving the jobs and the public's money to his crony friends. People are calling it crony capitalism, but in the end what difference does it make? It's an abuse of public money and resources.
So do some research on your own if you want to understand it. Don't lie to yourself or let others lie to you for political expediency.
edit on 27-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 02:06 AM
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reply to post by ARealandTrueAmerican
 


They call for seizing of abandoned buildings. This is otherwise known as squatting.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 02:07 AM
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reply to post by Daedal
 


So there are communists among the protesters.
I couldn't take a look at the protesters myself (since I'm living on the other side of the world) but from what I read there are all kinds of people down there.
From the left to the right there are: Socialists, Anarchists, Libertarians, Tea Partiers and "Ron Paulists" (



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 02:15 AM
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You people are absolutely bonkers. You missed the point entirely, claiming i said "communism is so great- I love it", this is out of hand. All i said is the truth. Our ancestors, long long ago, used to be basically communist. Christ sakes people! Of course communism can go bad! So can capitalism. And countries. And people.

Red shirts entering schools? When? Or even, who cares? Not once have i mirrored a teachers opinions(or anyone elses). I don't understand why you think i would.
edit on 27-9-2011 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 02:15 AM
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Been watching their stream and one of the guys there was being interviewed and he said something like.

"you see the tea party on the news all the time with their radical right views, if you want to be a part of the radical lefts protest then come on down we need you here"

Not sure if he was speaking for the whole group but thats just what I saw a second ago.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 02:31 AM
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reply to post by TsukiLunar
 

China hasn't been a communist society since the 80s ... nice try though.
how 'bout Cuba instead?

in a true communistic society, there is no leadership or structure for leadership soooooo, who makes that decision?

why not?? well, where else can they find such freedoms and practice such nonsense simultaneously?

yes, communism has plenty of worldly impact ... not disagreeing but for you to dismiss the communist push in America is just ... well, naive would be the kindest word i could muster.

a test? i didn't ask you to take a test, i suggested you show some manners which are apparently not included in your skill set. sorry for you.

i am neither a socialist, communist or staunch capitalist for that matter.
good luck trying to pigeon hole me, many have tried, none have succeeded.

i will tell that i have strong affinity for the communal models previously exercised in this country.
however, i am totally against all forms of communism and socialism.
as for capitalism, i've never really participated in such a society so i reserve opinion until i have experience from which to form one. the America i've grown up in has not been anything reflective of a society let alone a capitalistic one.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 02:41 AM
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reply to post by ColCurious
 


Funny, Code Pink never ever shows up at Tea Party rallies.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 02:45 AM
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Let me guess, there are baby boomers in this thread?

If so, then that pretty much explains the mindless red-bashing.

Quick, go hide under your desk!



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 02:48 AM
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reply to post by TsukiLunar
 


Maybe you meant they were communal. I've heard theories that religion is based on communistic practices too, because people in religious orders usually give up a materialistic lifestyle and don a specific garb, and rely on donations for sustenance.
Russian style communism, however, is very different, as this type of communism is forced violently, and uses Secret Police such as KGB to spy on people and keep them in line. It is really strange that people attack Capitalism and say that it is based on the authoritarian model. Stalin was most definitely an example of the authoritarian model, and so was Mao, and Pol Pot.
Socialists traditionally hated communists, saying they were too violent. But both systems are similar in that they both advocate redistribution of wealth and the abolition of private property. Both are forced, but one more violently. Communism is an advanced form of socialism.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 02:56 AM
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reply to post by The Sword
 


Are you an advocate for communism? Just wondering. If so, why?



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 03:27 AM
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reply to post by Honor93
 

China is still communist.
China has adopted some less communistic economic practices, but they still have a highly controlled society, and a heavily filtered Internet service, often referred to as "the Great Firewall of China". Google worked with China to develop a browser tool that relied heavily on censorship. I think that the States has a less censored version, but I believe we are headed in that direction. Just look at todays headlines with both the facebook fiasco on privacy settings and charges of it being a CIA tool for tracking, and the Fed now wanting to track everything people say about it on the Net.
Think about it. If you don't like it, you wont like communism(or globalism, or whatever name you would like to apply).

Li, the rights lawyer, said the ruling Communist Party is especially wary of dissent and controversy this year, the 20th anniversary of the 1989 pro-democracy protests ended by a bloody crackdown

www.reuters.com...

Now that article is from 2009. You say China has not been communist since the 80's? Hmmm who told you that?
Still, there are Chinese activists who manage to get around the filters.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 03:40 AM
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Originally posted by The Sword
Let me guess, there are baby boomers in this thread?

If so, then that pretty much explains the mindless red-bashing.

Quick, go hide under your desk!
I'm an open minded baby boomer that strongly believes in questioning and challenging corrupt leadership regardless of which of the political parties has a resident in the White House.... Being in the military is about as close to communism as you can get but being a very materialistic person like most Americans I did my thing and got out.... Communism works when the goal is educating people living in the third world as is evident to me when I talk to Vietnam vets that have returned a few times over the last 15 years... Less than 10 years after we abandoned the embassy in Saigon they had a stock market.... I think they will be fine if they don't also put in a privately owned banking system like the Fed, which by the way financed Lenin's take over of Russia with box car loads of gold... We are going to have the kind of government that works for the ultra rich and their whip crackers that kiss their a$$es and are rewarded for making sure that they are putting the screws to those that do the bulk of the work which amounts to about 90% of the population when things are going right.... Things haven't been right for a long time.. I am sure that the people that vote do not choose who is elected and the whole political process is a dog and pony show..



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 03:52 AM
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Seems to me that the OP is a Wall street Globalist shill... It is funny that people
are finally calling attention to the place that created this mess, the unemployment,
the whole shebang... And here we have people attacking the individuals that are
out there speaking up. I here about Rules for Radicals, sounds like you and the
Conservative elite pawns are using the commie strategy. This conservative induced
Red Scare is just a replacement for terrorism, a way to control the conservative masses
who operate from a place of fear. So conservatives protect the elite with taxation,
with regulation and by attacking the Americans who are out there DOING something,
not sitting around like a bunch off obese farm animals.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 03:56 AM
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I saw a quote once that comes to mind - i'm not sure who to attribute it to, but it rings true to me.

"Communism would never exist if people could be nice."

Income inequity is causing a backlash, and it may well be communism. It might be something else, I dunno, but people with money and power really haven't been playing nice.





 
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