"Occupy Wallstreet," the Communists in sheeps clothing.

Originally posted by jacobe001
reply to post by Honor93

 

Then you should be all for the Seperation of State, Big Corporations and Wall Street, since they tend to tailor their rules to win, rather than capitalism and free markets to dictate winners.

actually, you wouldn't be entirely correct in your assessment.
yes, i am against corporate individualism, against the operations of wall street, not the concept (against the laws that permit congress-critters to engage in trades of which we are forbidden / insider trading), totally against the FED reserve, against many things i am, however, i also have seen and participated in "communities" in my lifetime and rather successful ones at that and hold a firm belief that we have the power to create such communities within the system of a free market.

i do believe in the free market system and i also believe the actual duties of the govt are being obfuscated by the money game. i've never earned $50g per year my entire life but i hold no grudge for those who do. My angst lies with the (currently alive) historical figures that have developed this system of deceit and thievery.

My angst lies with the system as a whole, not just a particular leg of it.
Half or more of these protesters aren't even aware of HOW this system came to be, hence, IMHO their angst is misplaced. I fear their effect will be minimal at most.

when you say "the separation of state" ... what does that mean?
are these protesters petitioning for secession?
speaking of which, can anyone link a copy of the petition supposedly circulating?
without a proper petition of grievance, they are wasting everyone's time and resources.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


For every George Soros, there is a Rupert Murdoch, the Koch Brothers and just about every other conservative spook. Oh wait, I forgot the big kahuna, Grover Norquist.

We should learn to stop framing everything in a "left vs right" manner because that's why you're currently foaming at the mouth with your "commie" rhetoric.

Originally posted by Dystopiaphiliac

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by TsukiLunar

 

sounds like you don't have a clue what communism is.
It is not communal living by choice.
It is not equal distribution of anything.
It is not desired in any corner of America.
It has been defeated before and will be defeated again, and again and every time it rears its ugly head. Communism isn't what you seem to perceive.

curious question for you ... who or what is the power base/leaders in a communistic society?

True communism works, as long as people don't cheat the system. The problem with communism is that humanity is weak and too many people cheat the system in communist countries. If everybody follows it by the book then it would work perfectly. I don't think there should be any government but that would require an intelligent and tolerant society with peaceful goals towards self-sustaining Earth colonies with a lust for discovery and invention. Violence, fear, sorrow and anger are useless to humans but cause many of our current problems. They helped us greatly during and before the stone age to defeat the many wild predators our ancestors fought. Today they only cloud our minds and our judgment. Anybody can perform better at a task when they are calm and completely focused.

communism does NOT work ... not in any country it's been tried over the last 100+ yrs.
yes, several countries have a hybrid communistic approach but that is not communism, either.

it seems you are mistaken about what i wrote originally, please read it again.
some form of govt is necessary, even our fore-fathers knew this.
they tried the anarchist approach and that's what led to the original govt of the people, by the people, FOR the people. however, that was then and this is now and what we have is nothing representative of the people.
regardless of the ISM associated, this current system is a complete failure.

Originally posted by trailertrash
Right on. Here we go again kids. Blaming the commies.

commies are always innocent. a fact. just like their enemies.
also, both capitalist and communist propaganda machines
are very much alike.

Originally posted by jacobe001
I suppose anyone who speaks out against the bankers is a "communist" to you.

you can tell a commie by the way he thinks and speaks.
just as you can spot a bloodthirsty, babysealclubbing
capitalist by the way he thinks and speaks.

if you're aware of the capitalist propaganda machine
(consumerism, mtv, commercialism etc etc) you shouldn't
have no problem spotting a commie.

Wow at the whole "zomg communists" did i take a time machine back to the cold war?

and yes we should just let wall street do what ever they want as usuall, thats mos def the solution.

Originally posted by FuturePeace
and yes we should just let wall street do what ever they want as usuall, thats mos def the solution.

ummmm, are you paying attention to wall street action?? it certainly isn't suffering.
tis the same old, same old ... up and down she goes.
and since the protest is having -0- effect on wall street, exactly what is it accomplishing?

am still hoping/waiting to see the petition supposedly being circulated.
can't stand for something that isn't clear in a grievance, won't stand for the 'principle' cause that changes nothing and wastes a whole bunch of resources.

Alot of people posting here including OP are clearly asleep and have no idea how the world really works.

This is not a right wing extremist site.

This is not a left wing extremist site.

Keep that in mind before posting. There are people of all types seeking the truth, and the truth transcends silly politics and lies created by TPTB.

Wake up!

reply to post by Kicking2bears


I've been involved with this since the beginning, so let me clarify all these "associations" everyone is making. First off, Anonymous did not organize or start anything with this. Alex Jones' websites have been saying that Anonymous organized this, but they put out an endorsement WEEKS after the organizing had begun. First the magazine Adbusters just put the idea out there, then some techie activists made a website, and from the website local New Yorkers came together to start meeting, organizing and planning the protest. I was one of these New Yorkers. This group of New Yorkers is called the NYC General Assembly, and has been the planning and organizing machine for this whole entire thing.

The GA has been very open to accepting endorsements and cross-promotions with other activists, regardless of their politics, as long as they seem to be fighting for freedom, peace and equality. All of these associations are loose, just as the group itself is loose. The GA, meetings of which occur daily at the occupation, is made up of different thematic and working groups which come up with ideas in their respective areas, and then bring those ideas to the General Assembly to help everyone get an idea of what groups are coming up with and what to do next.

Mostly the GA has been leftist young people. But I myself am much further to the right, we have libertarians, baby boomers, disillusioned Obama supporters and all kinds of people. I've been cautious with this group because their ideologies are different from mine, but that's why I'm trying to stay involved--so that my ideas and influence can color the group's direction and decisions, and we get as many viewpoints as possible.

Bottom line--they're not "communists" any more than they're anything else. Just good people, some young and some old, some left and some right, trying to build a movement against banksters and corporate greed. It's really that basic. All us ATSers should try to get down there or on the website so that our own ideas are influencing the direction of this! That's the whole point.

I had a weird feeling about this too, especially since it's been so tolerated. I'm always in fear that I/we are playing right into the globlalists' hands somehow, and of course unrest is part of their plan. But it's stayed peaceful and, in my view, mostly honest so far. Power to us, I say...this is about reminding the people that WE have the power, and for now I think we're doing a half-decent job considering the time we've been at this.

Communist? hardly.
Look at their demands, you can now vote on them.
coupmedia.org...

reply to post by omarm1984


Looks pretty good to me.

Originally posted by DeadBirdCitizen
reply to post by Kicking2bears
[...] I've been cautious with this group because their ideologies are different from mine, but that's why I'm trying to stay involved--so that my ideas and influence can color the group's direction and decisions, and we get as many viewpoints as possible.

Thats the way to go!
Congratulations Sir, you understood how Democracy really works and what makes us strong!
Living Diversity is what keeps us vigilant and sharpens our minds, keeps us on our toes so to speak.

Originally posted by DeadBirdCitizen
reply to post by Kicking2bears
Bottom line--they're not "communists" any more than they're anything else. Just good people, some young and some old, some left and some right, trying to build a movement against banksters and corporate greed. It's really that basic. All us ATSers should try to get down there or on the website so that our own ideas are influencing the direction of this! That's the whole point.

I couldnt agree more!

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

For every George Soros, there is a Rupert Murdoch, the Koch Brothers and just about every other conservative spook. Oh wait, I forgot the big kahuna, Grover Norquist.

We should learn to stop framing everything in a "left vs right" manner because that's why you're currently foaming at the mouth with your "commie" rhetoric.

Murdoch is Bilderberg too. Saw his name on the list. I know you are not conservative, so stop pretending that you are not left.

It's really funny how when I post something less partisan I get just as much flak. While we are talking about commies, Axelrod's name is on a list of Bolsheviks.

Here are the ten steps of the communist manifesto proposed by Karl Marx.
Source

1) Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

We already have this in America. Through property taxes we have been made serfs on our own land. Through tyrannical zoning laws, wetlands regulations, EPA regulations, etc., we no longer control our lands. Our once strong private property rights have been abolished through regulatory oppression, bureaucratic tyranny and taxation.

The rest can be seen at the source link above.

Also those who are advocating a socialist agenda are a direct threat to our constitutional rights of individualism.One of the great tragedies of socialism has been the confounding of common rights (natural rights common to each individual) with collective rights (those that have been delegated to the community or its government). Common rights are inalienable, individual rights -- the very opposite of collective rights. Classical liberalism was based on the idea of common rights.

Originally posted by psyop911

Originally posted by trailertrash
Right on. Here we go again kids. Blaming the commies.

commies are always innocent. a fact. just like their enemies.
also, both capitalist and communist propaganda machines
are very much alike.

There are perversions of Capitalism. This is why Karl Marx wrote the communist manifesto. However, the Communist Manifesto advocates doing away with bourgeois private property in favor of the Proletariat collectively owning all the property.
You are either a collectivist or a free marketeer. Everything else in between is Socialist.

Originally posted by Daedal
Here are the ten steps of the communist manifesto proposed by Carl Marx.
Source

1) Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

We already have this in America. Through property taxes we have been made serfs on our own land. Through tyrannical zoning laws, wetlands regulations, EPA regulations, etc., we no longer control our lands. Our once strong private property rights have been abolished through regulatory oppression, bureaucratic tyranny and taxation.

The rest can be seen at the source link above.

Also those who are advocating a socialist agenda are a direct threat to our constitutional rights of individualism.One of the great tragedies of socialism has been the confounding of common rights (natural rights common to each individual) with collective rights (those that have been delegated to the community or its government). Common rights are inalienable, individual rights -- the very opposite of collective rights. Classical liberalism was based on the idea of common rights.

edit on 28-9-2011 by Daedal because: grammar

Thank you Daedal, very eloquent post and very true.

Originally posted by omarm1984
Communist? hardly.
Look at their demands, you can now vote on them.
coupmedia.org...

I saw a few things on the list I would get behind, notably repeal of the Patriot Act, there are however, a number of items that are socialist in nature and I would never support. It is definitely a mixed bag of demands. They want to forigive student loans----socialist----taxpayers would pick up the tab---what are these people thinking?

Equal rights for women? We already have equal rights. More leftist nonsense. Get rid of Capital punishement, more leftist stuff, they advocate letting brutal murderers live but......

Demanding the US ratify ALL other humans rights agreement... well that is the UN One World Govt if I ever saw it... again these people are making demands for One WOrld Govt....so again I was right about this protest.


Other demands seem to include changing how the courts work. I am deeply suspicious of that as well, because it probably has the INternational Criminal World Court in the Hague in mind, and thats more UN World Govt.

Interestingly, Obama steered the baillout money toward student loans, so I'm inclined to think that some of these protesters agree with the socialist agenda of Obama.

Originally posted by psyop911

Originally posted by jacobe001
I suppose anyone who speaks out against the bankers is a "communist" to you.

you can tell a commie by the way he thinks and speaks.
just as you can spot a bloodthirsty, babysealclubbing
capitalist by the way he thinks and speaks.

if you're aware of the capitalist propaganda machine
(consumerism, mtv, commercialism etc etc) you shouldn't
have no problem spotting a commie.

oh please!!! baby seal clubbing capitalists? Now I KNOW who is supporting this protest.

Originally posted by jacobe001
reply to post by Honor93

 

Then you should be all for the Seperation of State, Big Corporations and Wall Street, since they tend to tailor their rules to win, rather than capitalism and free markets to dictate winners.

Something tells me you don't understand what "Separation of State" denotes. It has nothing to do with Capitalism and Wall Street. It has to do with not being subject to a "State Religion". Free Markets do not "dictate winners". You simply do not understand what free enterprise is.

I am in the process of gathering information and researching the Socialist Party and have come across a lot of pertinent info,which has led me in another direction,but is directly connected to the movement in discussion provided in the OP.

Be back soon...