The real John Titor issue

For Victor Was Right...
The scary thing is, I don't believe we have any assurance of living through a Titor-type past series of events. With that being said, I wouldn't worry about whether or not he was real. What would scare me is... what if he was right?


For GradyPhilpott...
It's amazing, isn't it? The fact that civil war in the US and a nuclear attack isn't enough for some people. They still cling to this time travel issue. So now I have a question for you.
Do you understand the dynamics of different time zones in our current world? You know, California is 3 hours behind those on the east coast, etc... Who's not to say that this time-line issue doesn't work the same way? Or at least has the same principles?
It's something to think about. Now i'm not saying that because those on the east coast are in the future because they are 3 hours ahead... but in reailty... they are. Thoughts?

Originally posted by Cold SteelDo you understand the dynamics of different time zones in our current world? You know, California is 3 hours behind those on the east coast, etc... Who's not to say that this time-line issue doesn't work the same way? Or at least has the same principles?
It's something to think about. Now i'm not saying that because those on the east coast are in the future because they are 3 hours ahead... but in reailty... they are. Thoughts?

Time zones were set up to compensate for the rotation of the earth and was established by international treaty to encourage standardization. Otherwise, half the earth would be conducting business at night. Do you think that international treaty could solve the perplexing time travel conundrum? We could put a lot of theoretical physicists to a far better use, if that was the case.


[edit on 04/8/28 by GradyPhilpott]

No, I don't think that international treaty will solve anything. But I do believe that time zones, the rotation of the earth, and a few other items could spring a leak in our questions about time travel.

Originally posted by Cold Steel
Round 3... Ding Ding...

In case you haven't realised, this is not a debate. You made some statements. I commented on them. If you don't like having people disagree with you, then you should place them on your ignore list or not post to public forums.

Why are you so willing and eager to start a discussion about something that was not included in this thread?

What in the world are you talking about? If your point was the 'people should be nice to eather other' then that should've been the title of the thread, not the current one. And if you don't want to discuss 'the john titor issue' then simply stop discussing them.

all that we are going on is the fact that someone started to post on a forum a few years ago... and that's about it.

Actually it was in an ICQ chat but I don't suppose thats much of a difference. We also know that there are laws of physics that are ludicrously violated in the john titor story, and that these make it not worth treating as anything other than a fraud.

up any photo editing program that you'd like, but that is not what I'm here to discuss.

Ok then stop talking about it.

I believe you are posting here off topic because it allows you to be heard... however faint it might be.

Giving input about john titor in a thread about john titor is obviously not off topic. Even if you had some other issue actually in mind that you wanted to talk about when you posted you -did- start off by talking about john titor, and wondering why people dismiss or reject it.

You instead persist on creating issues with wordy paragraphs in hopes that someone out there will believe or pity you.

Uhm, you were the one who brought up john titor. You were the one who wondered why people don't beleive it.

Did you honestly think that one day, everything would snap into place, and people would run to the countryside, police would instantly begin entrenching on people's rights, and Bush would just come out and say Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction?

Ok, now you are again referencing the john titor story. Are you going to pretend that I am being off topic by responding to this?

If you find no meaning in Titor's post, then you aren't looking.

Well while you were looking for meaning some people noticed that the story was fraudulent, a hoax.

Here's a news flash for you. Scientists have been making amazing breakthroughs that will allow them to capture black holes over the next 5 years.

Such as?

If i'm not mistaken, Dr. Hawking, the leading guru for advancing our knowledge of black holes, has recently said some stunning things as of late. Perhaps you should check it out for yourself.

Ok, again you are referncing john titor and aspects of his story.

So let me get this straight, when I bring up some things that show his story to be 'not true', I am being off topic, meaningless, and blind. But when you think that steven hawkings new research on how black holes disipate is topical? And what reseach suggest that black holes can be captured in anything like the way john titor claims they are? Or am i being off topic by requesting that?

In the article, he says that it won't be possible to travel to other universes. But his findings said that it would be possible to travel within our own timeline. Now with a breakthrough like this, do you really think that we won't advance this technology?

I understand why people look up to stephen hawking. I do not understand why anyone would think that a causual comment in a general newspaper interview by him is a 'break through', and no, I don't think that technology will be advanced ,by the ultra radical militas that the john titor story has comming out of a global nuclear holocaust, to such a degree as to allow mini black holes to float around and bend laser light but nothing else around them.

As far as this not being big news or people not caring, I think you're wrong. Actually, it was quite disturbing for the people of that time.

Irregardless the greeks demonstrated thousands of years before columbous that the world was infact round. The public however was uneducated on the matter. Its this lack of education or an unwillingness to apply reason that is a problem.

Here we go with Christ. [...] You don't think that it's possible in the least that Peter fudged some of what was said?

Again, you are the one who brought up christ and made the claim that he didn't want to establish some sort of religion. Now you are saying that the bible does indicate this, but thats because people misrememered it. First off I find it hard to beleive that the very apostles he was associated with 'misremebered' things such that they thought he in fact did want to start a religion, irregardless of how 'emotional' it was. And secondly if everything has been 'misremebered' in this way, what reason is there to think that he didn't want to start a new religion in the first place? I mean, you keep saying that everyone misinterpreted everything, but then what makes you so special that you are somehow able to 'get the message;'?

Baptism is not Christian specific, as I'm sure you'd like to believe.

I could give two craps about whether or not baptism is a purely christian ritual, and I never even hinted that it was.

you see it as actually picking up a cross and getting nailed to it.

You are incorrect, and you certainly haven't been given enough information to even approach being able to make any such assesment.

So I'd like you to do me a favor.

Mat 16:18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church

Matthew 18:16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'[1] 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.





You're section on the "Basics" was quite revealing. You showed your ability to copy/paste. Nice job.

I cut and pasted absolutely nothing in that section. 'Nice'

If you read my original argument, I believe I stated specifically that I neither believe nor do I not believe in John Titor.

Ok, so you can't figure out that it was a hoax. Fine. And, agian, I didn't say that you did one way or the other.

As far as you believing that I only want to be agreed with...
Have I asked anyone to agree with me?

Nope, but when I started talking about some of the problems with beleiving the titor story you suggested that I 'stick the lazor'. Certainly seems like you aren't able to deal with having people say things you don't like. Heck, in the begining, I didn't say 'you are wrong, titor is dumb' I merely talked about why people reject the Titor story, a subject that you brought up in the first place. And now in this post of yours you are telling me I am off topic.

Have I asked for your approval?

Did I suggest you did or did not receive it? Why are you apparently obsessed with my approval?

Infact, all of my posts have been arguments about the original thread

This -is- the original thread, and I haven't brought up anything that you didn't bring up in the first place

... with the exception of dissecting a few of your own retorts.

Dissecting would require addressing at least some of the points I brought it. You said 'but stephen hawking is cool' and that time travel may be possible. Good job. Excellent dissection.

If you don't want to talk about it, then don't bother talking about.

In case you haven't realised, this is not a debate.

Actually, it is a debate. I started by stating the obvious, at which point you then took offense to what I was saying. Maybe you ought to go back to the beginning and read it... word for word this time. When you do take your time and go through it, maybe you'll see that I'm not promoting John Titor, nor what he said, but rather how people interpreted it.

And if you don't want to discuss 'the john titor issue' then simply stop discussing them.

Actually, the title of the thread is "The Real John Titor Issue." Not "John Titor is real and there's nothing you can do about it... whooo hooo." While I have to admit, it DOES have his name in it, it does NOT mean that all we are going to do is discuss a lazor and the probablity of the likelihood that he time travels.

We also know that there are laws of physics that are ludicrously violated in the john titor story, and that these make it not worth treating as anything other than a fraud.

Again... Blah Blah Blah... This is not the issue of this thread... Blah

Ok then stop talking about it.

Actually, you brought it up.

Uhm, you were the one who brought up john titor. You were the one who wondered why people don't beleive it.

Obviously, you need this cleared up. The main purpose for this thread is not whether John Titor was a time traveler... but to decode the message. Thanks, end of transmission.

Well while you were looking for meaning some people noticed that the story was fraudulent, a hoax.

Again... Off topic.

And what reseach suggest that black holes can be captured in anything like the way john titor claims they are?

I believe Titor claims to have been from 2036. This is 2004, and they are already making advancements. I'm simply saying, he could have been on to something... or leaked something...

Its this lack of education or an unwillingness to apply reason that is a problem.

I couldn't agree more.

what reason is there to think that he didn't want to start a new religion in the first place?

Have you read the bible? You ought to before you discuss it.

I mean, you keep saying that everyone misinterpreted everything, but then what makes you so special that you are somehow able to 'get the message;'?

Here's the answer... Ready?
Look at what Christ said and did. If you find anything that points to starting a new religion, I'll admit my fault. But good luck... be forewarned... The word "religion" was one extremely despised by Christ.

You are incorrect, and you certainly haven't been given enough information to even approach being able to make any such assesment.

Nor do I care. After you, there will be other nit-pickers that give others' evidence in hopes of claiming whatever short lived victory that they have...

Mat 16:18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church

I don't see the word "religion" in there anywhere... Unless of course you are using "church" and "religion" interchangably... which would be worse than including "God" and "religion" in the same sentence.

Why are you apparently obsessed with my approval?

Uh Oh... looks like you had a conflict of worlds... better tuck that one away.



Now, with all that being said... Let's suppose that the "research" you did concludes that in order for the lazor to be bent, then all other light must be bent as well. OK. Point taken. When you decide to talk about the issue, I'm ready... And if you are still unclear as to what it is... all you have to do is ask.

-C.S-

I can't even follow all the "he said I said" stuff.

To the thread starter:

posted by Cold Steel
Our government is much stronger than its citizens, . . .

I disagree with this. That the government is stronger than the citizens that will oppose it- this I agree with.



[edit on 30/8/2004 by PublicGadfly]

I disagree with this. That the government is stronger than the citizens that will oppose it- this I agree with.

I'd like to think that too...
But look around, they control everything. Everything you eat, sleep, and breathe is regulated by the government. While they do not have the numbers that their citizens do, they do control them, thus overpowering.
I mean honestly, have you thought about the possibility of being thrown in jail based on false information? It is totally possible because they control the cops, the evidence, and the courts... not to mention the prisons.

Thoughts???

-C.S-

Originally posted by Cold Steel
Actually, it is a debate.

There is a seperate forum in this website specifically for debates. I haven't been posting in this thread for 'debating purposes'. You posted a post about john titor and some other stuff. I commented on it. I haven't been trying to debate you about it.

I started by stating the obvious, at which point you then took offense to what I was saying.

Uhm, no. You stated that it was strange that people reject the John Titor story. I gave some reasons for it, and discussed some of the other stuff you posted.

Maybe you ought to go back to the beginning and read it... word for word this time.

It was all pretty pporly thought out the first time around, I'm not going to bother with it again. When you do take your time and go through it, maybe you'll see that I'm not promoting John Titor, nor what he said, but rather how people interpreted it.

I can see that you do infact have a reading comprehension problem. I haven't stated that you were supporting or advocating the truth of the john titor story.
And if you don't want to discuss 'the john titor issue' then simply stop discussing them.

Actually, the title of the thread is "The Real John Titor Issue." Not "John Titor is real and there's nothing you can do about it... whooo hooo." While I have to admit, it DOES have his name in it, it does NOT mean that all we are going to do is discuss a lazor and the probablity of the likelihood that he time travels.

Then stop talking about it. the laser picture shows that there definite fraud involved. It also shows that most people that accept the story aren't thinking very clearly. On the likelyhood that he time travels, lets list it as 'extraordinarily unlikely'. If you disagree with me, fine, but could you stop complaining about the fact that

Again... Blah Blah Blah... This is not the issue of this thread... Blah

So you agree then that these items I brought up reveal that the john titor story is a hoax.

Actually, you brought it up.

Alright, I brought it up, you didn't mention john titor, and this thread has some other name. So why are you responding to that line? I'm serious. If you aren't interested in what I have to say, and you think its off topic, inapropriate and misses the point, why are you still responding?

Obviously, you need this cleared up. The main purpose for this thread is not whether John Titor was a time traveler... but to decode the message. Thanks, end of transmission.

See, here's what you do when you don't want to respond to a specific portion of a post, you, er, don't respond to it.

Well while you were looking for meaning some people noticed that the story was fraudulent, a hoax.

Again... Off topic.

I understand that you're basically just to stupid to see that john titor is not off topic in a john titor thread. There is no need to go to such lengths to repeatedly demonstrate it.

I believe Titor claims to have been from 2036. This is 2004, and they are already making advancements. I'm simply saying, he could have been on to something... or leaked something...

whoa whoa slow down there super-guy, this kind of talk is off topic here. Or is it just that the portiosn you don't understand and can't weasel out of in some way are the off topic portions?

Its this lack of education or an unwillingness to apply reason that is a problem.

I couldn't agree more.

Ah, i see, its neither of the above, you simply don't understand whats going on around you.

what reason is there to think that he didn't want to start a new religion in the first place?

Have you read the bible? You ought to before you discuss it.

Ok, first, is this going to be on topic or off topic for you? I mean, I know that you were the one who was talking about the jesus and john titor, but since you've decided that john titor is off topic, is the bible going to be off topic too? I also noticed that you didn't have any evidence from the bible to support your assertion, and that infact you earlier asked me to provice evidence for mine, which I did.

Look at what Christ said and did.

"you're the rock upon which my church will be built"

Yep, looks like he was interested in religon.

If you find anything that points to starting a new religion, I'll admit my fault. But good luck... be forewarned... The word "religion" was one extremely despised by Christ.

Where did he state this?

You are incorrect, and you certainly haven't been given enough information to even approach being able to make any such assesment.

Nor do I care.

Then why did you make such an assesment in the first place?

After you, there will be other nit-pickers that give others' evidence in hopes of claiming whatever short lived victory that they have...

I don't see the word "religion" in there anywhere... Unless of course you are using "church" and "religion" interchangably... which would be worse than including "God" and "religion" in the same sentence.

And what are churches used for? Religion. If there is no religion, then how are churches supposed to even exist? They'd've said 'house' or 'building' or somethign like that, and it certainly wouldn't even begin to make any sort of sense. Why would peter be the rock of some unimportant building? The church is the community of beleivers and followers, its the building in which they enact their religious rituals, you know, like the one that jesus showed them at the last supper? And so you are saying that the apostles, who actually knew the guy very personally, somehow messed up and started forming a new religion afterwards? That they mistakenly went around establishing churches and doctrine in error, but that you, some guy 2 thousand years later, who only has the writtings of those mistaken apostles to go on, that you, somehow, know the intentions of christ better than anyone who worked with him, adn that they were all absolutely and completely wrong?

Why are you apparently obsessed with my approval?

Uh Oh... looks like you had a conflict of worlds... better tuck that one away.

Uh Oh...looks like you can't bother to back up anything you say and instead prefer to just make assertions.

Let's suppose that the "research" you did concludes that in order for the lazor to be bent, then all other light must be bent as well.

Is there something about the phyiscs of light and gravity that you aren't understanding here that required you to put research in quotes and suppose that the other light should've been bent?

Time travel is not possible.

The single universe theory has the 'grandfather' paradox: if one goes back and kills his grandfather, then he would never have been born in the first place, so he could not kill his grandfather etc.

In order to solve this problem, the multiverse theory has been introduced, i.e. that when one travels in time, it moves from one version of the universe to the other; this theory has two possible explanations: either that all possible universes exist simultaneously or that choosing a different path replicates the current universe (so the old one is not affected).

But there is a paradox also in the multiverse theory:

If one can't go back to its own universe (the universe that the trip started from), then that universe can't tell if time travel exists. On the other hand, if one can go back to its own universe, then we have the case of the single universe paradox, because nothing stops him for going back to the same universe from another universe.

Therefore, time travel is not possible.

And if you don't want to discuss 'the john titor issue' then simply stop discussing them.

The title of the thread is "The Real John Titor Issue." I'm not here to debate, nor am I interested in, whether or not he is real.

If you disagree with me, fine, but could you stop complaining about the fact that

I'm not complaining about anything. Show me what empirical evidence you have, and we'll go from there. But you didn't come up with the bent lazor, so don't bring it up. And you might want to look up '"empirical" before you answer.

So you agree then that these items I brought up reveal that the john titor story is a hoax.

Whether or not he is a hoax is not the point of this thread.

If you aren't interested in what I have to say, and you think its off topic, inapropriate and misses the point, why are you still responding?

Because I believe you are a smart individual. And once you get past the fact of whether or not he was real, then we could possibly have an indepth conversation about the topic at hand.

I understand that you're basically just to stupid to see that john titor is not off topic in a john titor thread. There is no need to go to such lengths to repeatedly demonstrate it.

Name calling isn't really called for. If I could, I would rename the thread "The path we're on." But I can't. When I made this thread, I didn't realize there would be a die hard, anti-titor, flat-earthed person that would argue that John Titor is a hoax until he is blue in the face. Can anyone help him out with this?

Ah, i see, its neither of the above, you simply don't understand whats going on around you.

Actually, I was referring to you.

"you're the rock upon which my church will be built"

Yep, looks like he was interested in religon.

So then you must believe that religion is a good thing? I assume this because you use church and God interchangably. Keep in mind that religion is the #1 cause of death in the history of the world. I believe in God and Christ, but I don't believe that I need some priest to "get me to heaven." You might want to read over the history books before this conversation. Pay particular attention to the Papacy.

But, just to humor you, explain two to me.
1. Christ was a Jew, but he started Christianity?
2. Under Christian belief, there are three Gods; God the father, God the son, and the holy spirit. How can there be three if the belief is monotheistic ?

Uh Oh...looks like you can't bother to back up anything you say and instead prefer to just make assertions

I'm willing to talk about any subject, and give my view of any question. And you are more than welcome to ask anything, if you can get your head out of your butt long enough to ask one.

Is there something about the phyiscs of light and gravity that you aren't understanding here that required you to put research in quotes and suppose that the other light should've been bent?

I am not here to support the candidates, John Titor, or Jesus Christ. I am here to offer my insight into the issue. After it is all said and done, we will still be here, one way or another. What you have to decide is where you stand. Will you be a sheep and follow what people tell you. Or will you think for yourself. The information is out there... all you have to do is dig.

Now, do you see anything in there about the laser being bent? Is there something you don't understand about the topic of this thread? If I wanted to discuss whether or not John Titor was real, I would have. But I left an underlying issue that you have apparently missed. I'll put it in caps so you don't miss it again.

JOHN TITOR IS REAL, I KNOW THIS BECAUSE SOMEONE WITH THAT NAME POSTED ON WEBSITES. I DON'T KNOW, NOR DO I CARE WHETHER OR NOT HE WAS A TIME TRAVELER. MY MAIN POINT IS THAT, WHOEVER HE WAS, HE WAS ALMOST DEAD ON WITH REGUARDS TO OUR WORLD. HE SAID WHAT MANY OF US SUBCONSCIOUSLY THINK... AND THAT IS WE ARE ON A ROUGH ROAD AND THAT WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO AVERT AN ALMOST CERTAIN CHAOTIC FUTURE.

With that being said. Does anyone think that there is any validity in the statements John Titor made in reguards to our world?