The Creator

Creationism is merely a simple-minded person's attempt to answer a question that is essentially impossible for a being viewing time from a subjective standpoint to answer. The very idea that the universe has always existed, for no discernible reason, is way too much for them to answer without adding some supernatural element to the mix. Unfortunately, their answer merely brings up the question that you presented in your OP.

reply to post by Q:1984A:1776


IDK More liike a spiritual element really. I'd be happy with the universe just farted itself into existence. I mean just for the record and if that's what made the most sense ? But it dosn't make any sense at all.

Originally posted by hudsonhawk69

Originally posted by knowthepath
reply to post by hudsonhawk69

 

WOT I BELIEVE , sure mate. I "personaly" think that in what you do in this life determines where you go or wot you evolve into (a higher existance maybe). Mayativebe if you live life the positively we will go to a higher dimension or if you are very negative reincarnation maybe (to learn from ur mistakes and give you another chance to evolve). I'm open to opinions, but I've always had a feeling that this life is like a catapillar shell and when we die , only then do we all become butter flies. _javascript:icon('

') ( a bit of a # description, I know, but you get what I mean ! I hope .

Thankyou... That was an educational and helpful opinion that you expressed there. You should do that more often.

Sorry but i didnt think that I was to educate you, I thought you asked for my opinion !

reply to post by randyvs


So, because something does not make sense to you, you can replace the unknown with some supernatural being? Sounds childish to me.

reply to post by Tony4211


It dosn't just sound chidish. It would be chidish, if it were actually the way it rolls off your tongue.

So did you create this thread, to hear people answer your question, so you could then insult them for giving you
the wrong answer ? Because if that's the case ? Well now that's childish.

reply to post by randyvs


I believe you were the one that started the ridicule in this thread. I started off saying I wanted to hear everyone's opinion, yet you felt the need to laugh me off. In fact, every single one of your comments has had some negative part to it. hmmm..... Anyway.. try to add some conversation to the thread, it is derailing. I would like to hear what you have to say.

reply to post by Tony4211


Good luck with your thread.

Originally posted by randyvs

Creationism is merely a simple-minded person's attempt to answer a question that is essentially impossible for a being viewing time from a subjective standpoint to answer. The very idea that the universe has always existed, for no discernible reason, is way too much for them to answer without adding some supernatural element to the mix. Unfortunately, their answer merely brings up the question that you presented in your OP.

reply to post by Q:1984A:1776

 

IDK More liike a spiritual element really. I'd be happy with the universe just farted itself into existence. I mean just for the record and if that's what made the most sense ? But it dosn't make any sense at all.

edit on 26-9-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Now that was childish, and completely missed my point. All too often Scientists and Creationist alike miss the point. Just because we have a pretty decent explanation of the universe coming into existence at one point in "time", doesn't mean that there wasn't more than one "big bang" in an infinite sea of "universes" and that matter and energy have always existed and always will exist in a constant flux of "creation" and "destruction".
Sorry for all the quotes, but at least I didn't say something like "farted itself into existence". Go mock someone else's thread, Randy.

An alternate possibility on how "Big Bangs" happen, a la "Brane Theory":

Matter (aka galaxies full of stars, and the dust surrounding them) is not in a certain part of the "universe". In an adjacent universe, the same thing starts to happen as well, as these cycles are related to each other in each universe. As less and less matter is present, the fabric of space begins to lose stability (as gravity is a force that bleeds from one verse to the next, keeping them separated. lack of matter = lack of gravitational force).

As less and less matter is in that region of the universe, and the stability decays further, the two verses "touch" and create a massive display of energy in a 'big bang'.

_________________________________________________________

Now, big bang or not, Randy's comment of God being the "causeless cause" is the most pertinent thing in this thread.

I love this topic. If there is a God (which i believe there is) then if we are his offspring/part of him/ his children then he must be looking down at us with pride and amusement as we desperately try and find the reason for our creation, whilst imprisoned within our 5 senses and three dimensions. An ant trying to read war and peace comes to mind.
When the answer is right our noses, we are him! we just forgot, i mean that literally, and maybe the only way that God could truly experience himself as glorious and a creator was to create us and everything else. Its the old tree falling in the forest metaphor. He doesnt truly exist without us, there is no point of reference, its just him, but with us, its him, us and everything that is not him and us, , (dark matter i think??? im not a scientist)

Originally posted by Tony4211
Regardless, I am relatively new to this forum and would love to hear what both sides have to say about this. . . . Before anyone mentions it, this thread was not meant to deceive anyone. I am curious to hear these questions answered to the best of everyone's ability.

Tony4211,
Please forgive my confusion, but it's late and I may have missed the point.

WHY do you want "to hear what both sides have to say..." Are you dissatisfied with your present beliefs and want to explore others? Do you think the back and forth will be amusing? Do you have a new thought that you're planning to disclose once the discussion is started? Are you just bored?

For some strange reason, that makes a difference to me.

Charles1952

God the Father spoke to a humble prioress Mother Eugenia, July 1, 1932. This private revelation from God the Father, the only one approved by the Church was dictated from the Father to Mother Eugenia in a language, Latin, which was totally unknown to her.

Interesting about Mother Eugenia, she discovered the first medicine for the cure of leprosy, extracting it from the seed of a tropical plant. You can read the entire revelation on line. Here is an excerpt...

The Father Speaks to His Children

...Realize then, O men, that for all eternity I have had but one desire, to make Myself known to men and be loved by them. I wish to stay forever with them.

Do you want an authentic proof of this desire that I have just expressed?

Why did I command Moses to build a tabernacle and the ark of the covenant, if not to come and dwell, as a Father, a brother, a close friend, with My creatures, men? This was My ardent desire. In spite of this, they have forgotten Me and offended Me with countless sins. I gave Moses My commandments to remind them, in spite of everything, of God, their Father, and of His sole wish, to save them. They were supposed to observe the commandments and thereby remember their infinitely good Father, always intent upon their present and eternal salvation.

All this was forgotten and men sank into error and fear, considering that the observance of the commandments as I had transmitted them to Moses was too taxing. They made up other laws in accordance with their whims, in order to observe them more easily. Little by little, in the exaggerated fear they had of Me, they forgot Me more and more and heaped outrages upon Me.

Yet My love for these men, My children, never quite ceased. When I realized that neither the patriarchs nor the prophets had been able to make Me known and loved by men, I decided to come Myself.

But how could I come among them? There was no other way than to come Myself, in the second Person of My divinity.

Would men know Me? Would they listen to Me?

Nothing in the future was hidden from Me; I Myself answered these two questions:

"They will ignore My presence, even though they will be near Me. In My Son they will treat Me cruelly, notwithstanding all the good He will do for them. In My Son they will speak ill of Me; they will crucify Me to bring about My death."

Shall I stop because of this? No, My love for My children, men, is too great.

I did not stop there. Understand well that I loved you, as it were, more than My beloved Son, or rather, more than Myself...

reply to post by colbe

colbe,

Please, could you post your source? It looks to be worth following up. Thanks.

Charles1952

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by colbe

 

colbe,

Please, could you post your source? It looks to be worth following up. Thanks.

Charles1952

Hello Charles,

I share a link to the message on line. Scroll down after info on Mother Eugenia
and church authority approval and you'll see Book 1, part 1. It's hard to read
a book on line, you might want to print the message off. I have the message in booklet
form at home. It's about 36 half pages.

The Blessed Trinity, mysterious for us to comprehend and we can't here but I can keep this straight.

Father = our creator
Jesus = our redeemer
God the Holy Spirit = our sanctifier

It is true the message, my personal testimony. I prayed a 9 day novena prayer using the prayer at the end of the message. God the Father answered my prayer on the day I finished my novena. It was a spiritual request but only God could of done this, no one else.

The link:
www.fatherspeaks.net...

reply to post by charles1952

WHY do you want "to hear what both sides have to say..." Are you dissatisfied with your present beliefs and want to explore others? Do you think the back and forth will be amusing? Do you have a new thought that you're planning to disclose once the discussion is started? Are you just bored?

To fully understand your own views, you must hear both sides of the story.

reply to post by Tony4211


[COLOR=GOLD]
CREATOR created this lil universe and all the energiies within it.

GODS or SPECIES FATHERS, are those who may have influenced the development of any species within this lil universe. GODS or FATHERS of species are CREATOR CREATED ALSO.

LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA*******
[/COLOR]

Originally posted by Tony4211
I am almost positive that this has been a thread at some point in time. I'm sure of it. Regardless, I am relatively new to this forum and would love to hear what both sides have to say about this. Obviously this is more directed towards the individuals in favor of a creator, but I am positive there will be interesting comments from the opposing side. ANYWAY! If there was a creator, an almighty being that brought everything into existence, what created him? What triggered the being to create life at that particular time or life at all for that matter? Why not make creatures as perfect as the being itself? Could the Creator be a metaphor for something? Before anyone mentions it, this thread was not meant to deceive anyone. I am curious to hear these questions answered to the best of everyone's ability.

What comes first, the chicken of the egg? The egg, of course. Or there wouldn't be chickens to lay the egg? Simple isn't it. I am sure it seems the reverse of what we are expected to expect, but just think of God being a "Parent Father/ Mother Fractal," with all of Creation as scaled-down fractals, representing an image of the "Original's" "Creation," which includes all things. Which is expressed everywhere in the universe. As flowers blooming, stars going nova, babies being born, or could it be that what that has created everything is an "image" of that which created it? All in a nutshell, wrapped up in a riddle, lies the enigma that is indeed the entire universe.

When we take-into account the simplistic mathematics contained in nature and the heavens, represented as "The Golden Ratio," or "The Golden Measure," or "Fibinnacci Series," how could a person doubt everything was perfectly-designed and formed? It is what it is, and it's plainly laid-out before us all, to behold, and understand. How can one doubt it? As with evolution meant to be a function of creation, it fits neatly and everything has a purpose, and might be different than humankind expects, but "It" is there none-the-less.

Peace!

reply to post by colbe


I am not trying to be disrespectful, but this comment does not address any of the questions I asked. This comment seems to be what you hold as proof that your god exists.

reply to post by trekwebmaster

could a person doubt everything was perfectly-designed and formed?

Yes and kind of no. Yes, because there are many examples of redundant characteristics in animals and other life that could never be mistaken for work of a perfect designer. Kind of no, because it depends on what you view as the creator. A supernatural creator? (No, in my opinion) Why? Because what we seem to understand has not yet been explained? Throughout time we have gradually inherited a better understanding of the world around us and will one day, perhaps, even know the mysteries of our origins. Until then, how can we ever begin to explain what we obviously do not understand? On the other hand if the creator is a metaphor for everything that has ever been and will be, yes.

reply to post by Tony4211


I don't think there really is an answer..at least, not one that we would understand or see....I mean, really...how can the human mind really get the concept of infinity? the concept of something with no beginning? I mean...lets even just take God out of it for a second, and look at us, ourselves....our Earth had to have a beginning...we are told it was the big bang...but there had to be something to make the big bang happen....which means..there had to be something even before that...and before that..and before that....and before that....etc etc etc etc...but when we stop to think about it...that means...at some point..somewhere...there had to be an actual beginning..where there was nothing before it...how did that first beginning get there? Science says that atoms smashed together, causing the big bang...Great...where did the atoms comes from? how did they get there? what created them? they were just there? how? and if something created the atoms..then what created it? and what created that particular it? or the it that created the it that created the atoms? etc etc etc....and yet, we come full circle and realize that after all these "ITS" there would originally have to be one beginning "IT" how? where did "it" come from?

I realize this wasn't probably to be a discussion on Science Vs. God (in my opinion they go hand in hand) but, how can someone say God can't from nothing, yet, turn around and say atoms can?

reply to post by davethebear


See, that is a conundrum in of itself. Per science we are told the human mind cannot think of something it has not seen. Meaning? yeah, sure..we can conjure up a pink lion with a elephant tusk in our imagination, because we have seen the color pink, we have seen a lion and we have seen an elephants butt. But, we cannot have the imagination to come up with something we have never seen nor experienced. So,..that begs the question..where did the concept of "GOD" come from?

The answer that ancients used it as a way of explaining their unexplained is not a good enough answer here....because they could only use that imaginational figure if they had seen or experienced that imaginational figure..so where did the concept of "god" or "gods" come from?