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Will you give up your freedoms just to be safe?

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posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 01:57 PM
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Now, now children! If you can't play nice then take it out in traffic.




posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 01:58 PM
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No, TrueLies (good name for you, btw), you're wrong. Voters are NOT apathetic. Get it?



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Those statements don't make sense. Look up the word apathetic. Use it correctly or don't use it at all.



oooh, good burn... not... Here let me help ya kid:

1. Lack of interest or concern, especially regarding matters of general importance or appeal; indifference.
2. Lack of emotion or feeling; impassiveness.

So me applying the word "apathy" to my point is basically saying that peoplel ike you have no real interest or "concern" towards the way in which this country is heading.. If you did, you wouldn't be playing a GAME of voting the "lesser of two evils" Apathy, not having emotion.. If you were passionate about people's safety AND freedoms, you wouldn't be playing the game of "voting the lesser of two evils" you would get serious and give your head a shake to get that stupid theory/LIE out of your head.

Like I said, I completely understand now why your voting for Kerry....



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by TrueLies
How is voting lp giving into the terrorists


It's not. It's your freedom whether you want to vote or not. Voting will not give in to the terrorist. Giving up your freedoms will. That's exactly what they want. Also, what do you mean by "lp?"



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
No, TrueLies (good name for you, btw), you're wrong. Voters are NOT apathetic. Get it?


Ones like you are... Your buying into a lie because you couldn't care enough to actually do your own homework and stop buying the bs kerry and bush co are putting out for ya's..
And yes truelies is a good name... I really enjoyed the movie, thanks... oh and... good burn.... NOT...



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by mrmulder

Originally posted by TrueLies
How is voting lp giving into the terrorists


It's not. It's your freedom whether you want to vote or not. Voting will not give in to the terrorist. Giving up your freedoms will. That's exactly what they want. Also, what do you mean by "lp?"


LP= Libertarian Party... If you don't even know that then youdon't know what your talking about... It's your freedom if you want to vote, so vote. Not SELL OUT... Terrorists want Kerry in, because he's a socialist, he's voted liberal to everything, he's voted against capital punishment, against the laci peterson law tha would protect unborn babies, he's voted yes to higher taxes all the time, he's voted for a universal health care. You want to pay higher taxes, you want bunk programs after programs for those so called "disenfranchised" you want a pc world with confusion and anger, go right ahead, terrorists would love nothing more. Before telling me that if I vote lp it isn't my freedom learn what lp actually means... It is my freedom, it's not freedom "to me" if i'm voting rep or dem because it's not what I want to do... I'm not being victimized again, meaning i'm not voting for them to keep stripping my civil liberties thank you very much... ew.



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by mrmulder
Giving up your freedoms will. That's exactly what they want. Also, what do you mean by "lp?"


Yes, and if you vote kerry or bush the terrorists know that our freedoms will continue to go down the crapper... They both voted for the patriot act my friend... Whether you want to believe it or not...



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 02:29 PM
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Like so many posting in this thread has said, our freedom is more important.

As an American I agree with them.

The problem is not how we want our government to act, but the way the government is acting on our behave as you people has seen our liberties has been stripped away slowly but surely and not body in this administrations has taken their time to ask what the people of this country wants.

Not politician has come to my door and asked me if I want the patriot act or if it will be ok for them to change the law against my freedoms as a citizen.

Open your eyes Americans we have been rob blindly.



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by mrmulder
Well since the search option on this board isn't working at the moment I'm going to go ahead and post this.

We all know now what the Patriot Act is used for and if there's another terrorist attack the government will more than likely turn this country in a police state. By doing this it will take away our civil right, our freedom and our constitutional rights by monitoring everything we do. They're probably doing it to an extent already. My question is this. Are you willing to give up your freedoms just to be "safe?" I will never in a million years give my rights up. Why?

Regardless of who's responsible for terrorist attacks in this country, whether it's our own government or the terrorist, on thing is for certain. You give up your freedoms and your constitutional rights you're letting the bad guy win. How? Let's just say for the moment that Al Quada was solely responsible for 9/11. Why do terrorist around the world hate us? They hate us because we're a free country. Well if we give up our freedoms then we are giving the terrorist exactly what we want.

That's why I appose the Patriot Act and a police state. Many people don't seem to understand this. Yes, you will be safe but at the same time you've let the terrorist win anyways. If we we're attacked on 9/11 because they hate our freedoms then I say no to the Patriot Act. I'm not giving up my freedoms for the terrorist. I hope you don't either. Stand up for your constitutional rights and your freedoms. Don't give the terrorist what they want regardless of who they are.

[edit on 26-8-2004 by mrmulder]


right on. what point is there fighting terror if we give up what we are defending? i've said it in other threads, and i'll say it here: i find it very odd how we in america are asked to sacrifice freedom in the name of safety, while we've turned iraq into a very unsafe place and expect everyone to swallow it because... it's in the name of freedom! something very fundamental doesn't add up.

-koji K.



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by TrueLies

LP= Libertarian Party... If you don't even know that then youdon't know what your talking about... It's your freedom if you want to vote, so vote.


Whoa! Hold up here. There's no reason to be rude or sarcastic. I don't appreciate that. I'm trying to have a friendly debate here. I know what a Libertarian Party is. I've just never herd that "LP" stands for that. I may not be the smartest person in the world but I certainly am not the dumbest. Secondly, about voting, whether I want to or not, I'm talking about my freedoms as an American citizen. I probably won't vote in this election because I know both Bush and Kerry voted for the Patriot Act and I'm against it. There are of course other reason why I'm not voting for both of them either.



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 03:21 PM
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I probably won't vote in this election because I know both Bush and Kerry voted for the Patriot Act and I'm against it. There are of course other reason why I'm not voting for both of them either.


If you aren't gonna vote for either Bush or Kerry, then why not take a look at the other candidates available and vote for the one who best fits your ideals? Sure, whoever you would vote for won't actually get elected, but if each election more people who are fed up with the Dem or Rep candidate vot for a third party, then the more people will begin to see as a whole that they may not be throwing thier vote away. Let's face it. No matter how much people dislike these 2 candidates, their gonna vote for one of them because they have been brainwashed into believing that a vote in any other direction is foolish. IT'S NOT!!! It will take a long time, but I'm young enough to have hope that I may see that change happen in my voting lifetime.



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by mpeake



I probably won't vote in this election because I know both Bush and Kerry voted for the Patriot Act and I'm against it. There are of course other reason why I'm not voting for both of them either.


If you aren't gonna vote for either Bush or Kerry, then why not take a look at the other candidates available and vote for the one who best fits your ideals? Sure, whoever you would vote for won't actually get elected, but if each election more people who are fed up with the Dem or Rep candidate vot for a third party, then the more people will begin to see as a whole that they may not be throwing thier vote away. Let's face it. No matter how much people dislike these 2 candidates, their gonna vote for one of them because they have been brainwashed into believing that a vote in any other direction is foolish. IT'S NOT!!! It will take a long time, but I'm young enough to have hope that I may see that change happen in my voting lifetime.


You're right mpeake. I just don't want to see my vote go to waste. I would probably vote for Dennis Kucinich. I think he would be best qualified to run for the presidency. Of course that's my personal opinion.
And you're right. I do hope things change for the better someday instead of getting worse.



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by mrmulder

Originally posted by mpeake



I probably won't vote in this election because I know both Bush and Kerry voted for the Patriot Act and I'm against it. There are of course other reason why I'm not voting for both of them either.


If you aren't gonna vote for either Bush or Kerry, then why not take a look at the other candidates available and vote for the one who best fits your ideals? Sure, whoever you would vote for won't actually get elected, but if each election more people who are fed up with the Dem or Rep candidate vot for a third party, then the more people will begin to see as a whole that they may not be throwing thier vote away. Let's face it. No matter how much people dislike these 2 candidates, their gonna vote for one of them because they have been brainwashed into believing that a vote in any other direction is foolish. IT'S NOT!!! It will take a long time, but I'm young enough to have hope that I may see that change happen in my voting lifetime.


You're right mpeake. I just don't want to see my vote go to waste. I would probably vote for Dennis Kucinich. I think he would be best qualified to run for the presidency. Of course that's my personal opinion.
And you're right. I do hope things change for the better someday instead of getting worse.


I hope you do vote for an alternate candidate!
IMO the only wasted vote is an unused one...Those that don't vote for who they believe is the right person for the job don't deserve the right to complain about their elected officials, or even their citizenship IMO



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by mrmulder

Whoa! Hold up here. There's no reason to be rude or sarcastic. I don't appreciate that. I'm trying to have a friendly debate here. I know what a Libertarian Party is. I've just never herd that "LP" stands for that. I may not be the smartest person in the world but I certainly am not the dumbest. Secondly, about voting, whether I want to or not, I'm talking about my freedoms as an American citizen. I probably won't vote in this election because I know both Bush and Kerry voted for the Patriot Act and I'm against it. There are of course other reason why I'm not voting for both of them either.


I wasn't being either of those two things, I was just merely making a point, mrmulder, I think your the one jumping the gun here... Now you know what lp stands for so look on the bright side, you don't have to fully spell the party now.. woohoo. Your not dumb your smart, and smarter for even asking more questions, there's never such thing as a dumb question. vote in this election, do it, just vote your heart, and what you believe in, apparantly it's not bush or kerry... great... so now, find a party that matches your beliefs and vote for them... do your part to make us out numbered guys heard... The wave has to start somewhere...



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 06:26 PM
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To the originial Question,

Fox,

For one to gain some freedoms in a conventional society, one must give up some freedoms. It's a rule of thumb, which cannot be averted. Tax, yes we complain, but when we give up x amount of dollars towards the goverment, we are granted access to facilities such as, Hospitals, Schools, recreation centers, facilities funded by the goverment, funded by us.

The patriot act, though I am not well versed, follows this train of logic. We give up certain freedoms to the goverment, so in turn, they can allow certain freedoms to be reaped by the citizens.

Deep



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 06:33 PM
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It's not. It's your freedom whether you want to vote or not. Voting will not give in to the terrorist. Giving up your freedoms will. That's exactly what they want. Also, what do you mean by "lp?"


A intergral part of freedom should, and always will be, ones active part in the self-determination process via vote/not vote. Wether or not you choose to vote, you are still obligated to follow under the rule of the chosen party, it's an overt contract between you and the soveriengty, if you choose not too, then you can simply leave the soveriegn, or try to change it.

I think a major set back in America, as it is quite evident, is the fact that only 2 major parties exist, America is a two party system. If there were an advent of 5-6 different parties, it would give voters different avenues and socio-politico-religio-economico variations.

Deep



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