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The case for Aliens not existing

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posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 06:00 AM
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I was just sitting back and contemplating up at the stars, trying to send telepathic waves in hopes of contacting an Alien and telling him I love him.

I realized if they did exist they are from a far away planet...probably very different... but if possible, since we have so many options for stars and planets, and all types of creatures I was wondering...

If aliens did exist, since pretty much there is an infinite amount of star systems, there would be an infinite amount of cultures. Most probably wiped themselves out, nukes, cosmic rays, black holes, bacteria... etc...

but a few could survive like we have... then I realized that if aliens did exist, we would hear radio waves.. and see them possibly, but we don't, except youtube users, but nobody with a steady clear capable camera sees them... anyhow,

I was thinking so how come we never see Alien missionaries, I'm pretty sure they would have some type of belief system, and I could imagine a more advance species having more room for people to go off and settle with like minded individuals, example, Space Aliens who think like Amish folks and want a simple life... or maybe aliens who believe in racial superiority, or religious zelots.. why haven't we ran into any type of alien missionary?

Well that led me to another conclusion... when I go on vacation people always tell me the same thing, no matter where I go, don't drink the water.

Bacteria and virus's are evil and something we can't see, and they continually evolve... can survive a ton of dif enviroments, and can go dormant..

Chances are that if life exists on other planets, and let's say 10% made it to be a space society, and half of those made it outside there solar system.. what would they encounter?

Granted the tech they use is probably so far beyond what we could imagine... but there is one thing technology cannot do and that is defend us or them against super bacterias and virus's and probably some other type of long living lifeforms, probably been evolving since space became habitable, but stayed primitive because primitive lasts longer, but genes, and life is funny, somethings food is anothers poison.

So anyhow let's say our of the 5%, 2.5% decided and were able to keep exploring and defeated any type of bug invasion on there immune system.. or bringing back contams to their planet and destroying it that way. Or running into whatever version of aliens like to eat, sacrifice, or use for target practice other lifeforms...

Now remember i'm using these numbers to simplify situation, since we do not know numbers out there...

so out of the 2.5%, 1.25% survived to continue to evolve... some might have even formed confedarations with other life forms....

but, in order for the 1.25 of those aliens to survive space... they would have to genetically advance their species to not only combat space bugs, radiation, affects of dif gravities, dif foods, that they would probably just eventually upload the organic mind to an object like an android... or what not...or not... but the point is, that they must adapt as a species as a whole to be able to stay a species and not faction off which would decrease their resources greatly, and of course to be able to reproduce...

or become sentient robots... at which case they might lose the possibility of reproducijng, but would gain ability to backup conciousness...

but remember this theory also needs ambitious aliens who want to leave their tailor made world.

Granted now we are gun ho as humans to want to float off, but the one time we made it to another rock, the moon, we never really went back... because a floating rock with no warmth, grass, or water is not fun for us.

Well, anyhow I would imagine anything beyond our technology level as a species is pretty rare, space is pretty big and overly dangerous..if becoming a space traveling race is hard, why would you even bother announcing it, chances are one of a billion possible disasters could just hit this planet, asteroids, virus's, wars... life will always survive.. but in the long run it seems micro organisms have an edge in this universe.

Multicellulars seem to be burdened by not only single celled and virus's but by other multicellulars, and we can't really hibernate, a good change in weather, could detoy us, a bug could wipe us out... space rays, or our own technology can destroy us..

So does space have life.. I think so, prob a ton of flu virus and bacteria and probably other things we can only imagine, primitive yes, but long lasting.

But does space have intelligent life? We haven't heard a radio signal yet, which means that we probably do not have any higher advance life forms in our neck of the woods, or perhaps they didn't start transmitting until recently.. We haven't seen missionaries spreading alien socialism, or philosophy, I am sure if intelligence is the same everywhere, then wehatever the belief system they use there would be perhaps fringe groups who see it as the way they must spread to the rest of the Universe..

Chances are, intelligence itself could be the undoing of evolution to a certain degree, example, Hey we can make nukes now... or hey! What happens if I mix these two bacterias together... or hey! lets burn fossil fuels till we kill our planet and have to barely get by on hostile colony worlds and ships, and eventually just stall on evolution since we don't have room to evolve.

Chances are the most evolved worlds are gated communities, who send out robots to mine, and bring back all the resources to sustain the planet regardless, so homeworld is where the people stay. It's easier to have robots explore and mine. Sure space might have interesting places to look at, but I bet a ton of those worlds are like the grand canyons, you see it once, make a post card and thats about it. And any welcoming world as far as tempeture and other sentients go, would probably have some bugs, so you wouldnt want to make direct contact for fear of bringing back a bug to homeworld...

So anyhow i'll close off the ramble now by just saying, chances are whoever made it to super evolve, probably just hangs on his home planet, otherwise they risk the integrity of the species, any who actually decided to voyage the stars probably splintered off into a few dif species...and probably ended up not having enough genetic material to really continue on, or ran into stars driving drunk.

So anyhow, in my opinion based on this mental exercise in possibilites, I believe that whoever the most intelligents are out there, probably stay home, and probably just spend all their resources and energy investigating conciousness, which is the internal voyage. spirituality, probably art, love, and the universe is left to robots and bacteria. Neither of which care to communicate with us.

/13\




posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 06:24 AM
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Well, you've got some good points there, i do believe there is sentient extraterrestrial life out there, i think they may be observing us, for whatever reason. As for proof, just look at the miryad of good sightings out there, like...

en.wikipedia.org...

... this, which has been one of my favourites for years. So here's my input on what you've said, hope it gives you something to think about



Originally posted by Chesster

then I realized that if aliens did exist, we would hear radio waves.. and see them possibly, but we don't, except youtube users, but nobody with a steady clear capable camera sees them... anyhow,


Well maybe but then maybe they don't use radiowaves for communication, perhaps they have sone other way, we are limited to thinking like humans, who knows what technologies civilizations Millions of years more advanced than us might have?


Originally posted by Chesster i was thinking so how come we never see Alien missionaries, I'm pretty sure they would have some type of belief system


Religion, another human concept, perhaps any alien civilization out there may be entirely scientifically based, believing in only facts?


Originally posted by Chesster
Granted the tech they use is probably so far beyond what we could imagine... but there is one thing technology cannot do and that is defend us or them against super bacterias and virus's and probably some other type of long living lifeforms, probably been evolving since space became habitable, but stayed primitive because primitive lasts longer, but genes, and life is funny, somethings food is anothers poison.
We have hazmat suits, and a whole lot of other things designed to stop the spread of bacteria and infections. Sure, i'm no expert on these things but if an advanced civilization had the capability to traverse the expanse of the galaxy then they will likely have ways of keeping themselves away from harmful microbial life.


Originally posted by Chesster
but, in order for the 1.25 of those aliens to survive space... they would have to genetically advance their species to not only combat space bugs, radiation, affects of dif gravities, dif foods


The bugs, radiation and gravity have all been experienced by earthlings, why would a space faring be any different? And would they not bring their own source of nutrition with them?

You also said something about not being able to get a decent picture of a UFO, have you ever tried taking a picture of a plane, high in the sky? Especially at night? It's not easy. I actually had my first decent UFO sighting last night, and, as i stated in my post at the time, getting my camera would have been useless as all that would have been visible was a white dot on a black background, if that.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 07:02 AM
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i think dr. michio kaku mentioned that we broadcast in the hydrogen spectrum and look for signals there as well, but that's extremely narrow, considering the rest of the spectrum and other forms of communication. i mean we're currently talking about transmitting communications via quantum entanglement, and such a method would be untrackable. the likelihood of "hearing" random quantum entangled particles passing a message to each other is pretty astronomical.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 07:09 AM
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Originally posted by Chesster
but a few could survive like we have... then I realized that if aliens did exist, we would hear radio waves.. and see them possibly, but we don't, except youtube users, but nobody with a steady clear capable camera sees them... anyhow,

Assuming they use radio to communicate. As soon as you find a FTL method then you use that, quantum entanglement for example.


I was thinking so how come we never see Alien missionaries, I'm pretty sure they would have some type of belief system, and I could imagine a more advance species having more room for people to go off and settle with like minded individuals, example, Space Aliens who think like Amish folks and want a simple life... or maybe aliens who believe in racial superiority, or religious zelots.. why haven't we ran into any type of alien missionary?

Even humans will day be intelligent enough to drop their belief in a supernatural being.


Granted the tech they use is probably so far beyond what we could imagine... but there is one thing technology cannot do and that is defend us or them against super bacterias and virus's and probably some other type of long living lifeforms, probably been evolving since space became habitable, but stayed primitive because primitive lasts longer, but genes, and life is funny, somethings food is anothers poison.

We (humans) are generally unaffected by viruses that infect other species. likewise Bacteria will be adapted to survive with the species they evolved with. It is exceptionally unlikely any alien virus or bacteria will affect us or vice versa. Now some ancient bacteria locked in amber....hmmm.


Well, anyhow I would imagine anything beyond our technology level as a species is pretty rare, space is pretty big and overly dangerous..if becoming a space traveling race is hard, why would you even bother announcing it, chances are one of a billion possible disasters could just hit this planet, asteroids, virus's, wars... life will always survive.. but in the long run it seems micro organisms have an edge in this universe.

Wow what an assumption based on a sample size of one, the earth. For all you know we are en exception evolving on a very dangerous planet. After all there have been several extintion level events on this planet already. There could be millions of planets out there who never have ELE's and so dinosaurs are currently engaged in astrophysics.


But does space have intelligent life? We haven't heard a radio signal yet, which means that we probably do not have any higher advance life forms in our neck of the woods, or perhaps they didn't start transmitting until recently.. We haven't seen missionaries spreading alien socialism, or philosophy, I am sure if intelligence is the same everywhere, then wehatever the belief system they use there would be perhaps fringe groups who see it as the way they must spread to the rest of the Universe..

Perhaps we are too boring to bother with. Perhaps they don't know we are here because we use radio waves. Perhaps that even if you can travel to any star in the galaxy in one day you could spend a lifetime never coming across one single habitable planet and yet the galaxy is full of them.

Quick math : you travel for 100 years, one day per solar system, that means you have visited 36,500 stars out of 100 Billion. Ther could be 1million civilisations in our galaxy so the odds on you visiting by chance are 1 in a 100,000 and you have 36,500 chances in a lifetime!

Perhaps they are here but just keeping quiet for now.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 07:12 AM
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reply to post by undo
 


We're made out of star dust. Everything on this planet including us and including the planet itself comes from star stuff found throught the universe. If we're here they're there.

I don't doubt at different levels of development some more advanced some not but they're there.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 07:19 AM
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As a poster above said. Maybe they don't communicate using radio waves. We have limited our search for extraterrestrial life to our way of thinking: we have detected no radio signals so they don't exist, this planet doesn't contain water so it must not harbor life, etc..

We have already proven that life, albeit bacterial, can exist in the harshest of conditions. Just because we here on Earth require water for survival does not mean it is a universal law for life to exist.

And if they have detected our radio signals, they are probably hearing the insane ramblings of Hitler right about now. Reason enough for them to avoid us altogether.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 07:29 AM
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reply to post by IamAbeliever
 


Okay follow along now, space is vast gigantic!

It's take millions of years sometimes for things to get around..... if the universe had life at any point that used radio waves we would hear them.

Because given this

en.wikipedia.org...'s_razor

we can assume that if aliens followed science they would probably discover magnetism and electricity early on and use radio waves at some point until they were developed enough to switch.

Like yea, we have cell phones now, but if you tore up houses you would find land line wires... same with radio waves, we would see them if they ever existed at any point and were flying towards us. It's not like species jump from discovering the wheel to using quantum entanglement right? At some point they would use rado waves!



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 07:29 AM
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reply to post by IamAbeliever
 


Okay follow along now, space is vast gigantic!

It's take millions of years sometimes for things to get around..... if the universe had life at any point that used radio waves we would hear them.

Because given this

en.wikipedia.org...'s_razor

we can assume that if aliens followed science they would probably discover magnetism and electricity early on and use radio waves at some point until they were developed enough to switch.

Like yea, we have cell phones now, but if you tore up houses you would find land line wires... same with radio waves, we would see them if they ever existed at any point and were flying towards us. It's not like species jump from discovering the wheel to using quantum entanglement right? At some point they would use rado waves!



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 08:00 AM
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Its an impossible and futile venture to try and speculate what aliens are like. We only have ourselves as a reference point, which is a bad place to start when considering the vast differences that could exist between us and them. Mathmatics offers a better solution, the drake equation tells us its probable there are many civilizations out there without the need for wild speculation. en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 08:08 AM
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Until they appear before us it's never gonna be excepted that alien life exists, especially by crazy religious cults. But the chances of there being life out there far outweigh the chances of there not being. Let's face it though, one day, the other races who banished us to this desolate rock at the @rse end of the universe for our stubborn, warlike ways will come along to see if we've learned our lesson yet which, as a race, we really haven't.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 08:08 AM
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I personally think you are looking at everything to much from an human perspective. Things like beliefs and even our own intelligence are very much a human thing. Also for all we know there are tons of radio signals out there that are actually blocked by undiscovered phenomenon, maybe there is just a way more efficient form of communication we have missed. We probably have more similarities to frogs than we do to aliens. Not to mention perhaps our universe if just one location in a multitude of other dimensions and levels of existence.

basically if you want to understand aliens you are better of forgetting all the movies, films etc and look at nature. It is only recently we found out dolphins communicate yet for generations this was unknown to us despite sharing the same water. If Earth animals can communicate and we were never aware I feel we are ignorant to expect aliens to communicate at our level.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 08:45 AM
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reply to post by Chesster
 


depends on how they went about discovering the composition and laws of the universe. if they took a different track than us, their focus for communications might be in a different spectrum, particularly if they were not carbon-based, as they might hear different frequencies than us and communicate in different frequencies.ya know?



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 08:59 AM
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reply to post by Chesster
 


Lol, that was the funny introduction I have heard in so long.

Yes, space has intelligence life. The astronaut with the longest record on the moon said he was in the knowledge from his sources that alien have visited earth. He said he believes someone he knows who has seen an alien.

I know someone who did what you did. She was psychic. She called out in good intentions to the universe to the aliens. This was in the 90s when the aliens were still in operation over the US. It is true. They came a week later. They laid her down on a table to gather her reproductive gentics because they liked her, they chose her. She got mad and tried to yell at them. The mantis being was there and stretched his head out to look at her. Afterwards she understand the reality of alien abduction. How could she call in her mind to meet with them again after the bad experience? She had respect and said let bygones be bygones. For years later it was like the aliens were spiritually around her in her life. They carried out the hypnotic suggestions, something John Lear spoke about in his public statement and also grudge report. I saw this and it is as true as a stone on the ground that you would pick up and feel in your hand. The suggestions had to do with relationships, I don't know how many there were but there could have been a number of things alien related that were influenced throughout her life. The aliens found her when she was young, the flew over her in a UFO, her friends ran away. Thats all it takes, one thorough scan from an alien and they can track you and be with you, and plan events for later in life.

These type of aliens are so far advanced that time doesn't mean anything to them, they can see things on earth from space, and they are like a spirit in being omnipresent. They possibly can have white bodies that are as skinny as a toothpick, 5 ft tall, the head extend oval shaped towards the back rather than a big headed grey, but if you saw this being which does not have any clothes on our sexual organs you would recognize him as a grey.
edit on 26-9-2011 by greyer because: typo



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 09:06 AM
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Google the 'Drake equation'(ah, I see that somebody has already provided a link)

Here's Mr Sagan:

edit on 26-9-2011 by seabhac-rua because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by Chesster
I was just sitting back and contemplating up at the stars, trying to send telepathic waves in hopes of contacting an Alien and telling him I love him...



... But does space have intelligent life? We haven't heard a radio signal yet, which means that we probably do not have any higher advance life forms in our neck of the woods, or perhaps they didn't start transmitting until recently.


I find that interesting. You are sending out thoughts, not radio waves. Perhaps we should be looking for or sending out rhythmic amplified EM signals in the 1-20Hz range instead?



I was thinking so how come we never see Alien missionaries, I'm pretty sure they would have some type of belief system, and I could imagine a more advance species having more room for people to go off and settle with like minded individuals, example, Space Aliens who think like Amish folks and want a simple life... or maybe aliens who believe in racial superiority, or religious zelots.. why haven't we ran into any type of alien missionary?


That is open for debate. Ever looked into the ancient astronaut theory? Lots of missionaries, zealots, and genocide. There's plenty of benevolent beings in there, too.

It really boils down to what you will accept as evidence.
edit on 26-9-2011 by Flux8 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by seabhac-rua
Google the 'Drake equation'(ah, I see that somebody has already provided a link)

Here's Mr Sagan:


Indeed! Thing that amazes me, is that he takes a very conservative way of doing the math, and it's only for our galaxy too.

When you think that equation also applies to the billions/trillions of galaxies that are out there, it becomes so mind boggling impossible ti think that we are the only intelligent life forms in existence.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by AmatuerSkyWatcher

Originally posted by seabhac-rua
Google the 'Drake equation'(ah, I see that somebody has already provided a link)

Here's Mr Sagan:


Indeed! Thing that amazes me, is that he takes a very conservative way of doing the math, and it's only for our galaxy too.

When you think that equation also applies to the billions/trillions of galaxies that are out there, it becomes so mind boggling impossible ti think that we are the only intelligent life forms in existence.

i agree, and if they actually looked up how far our radio waves have traveled theyd find its not that far at all.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by Chesster
 


Let me be the first to give you a star for
a well thought out thread.
I don't necessarily agree with a good few of your points, but you have taken the time
to reason out theory, and for that you deserve a star.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by Chesster
 




but a few could survive like we have... then I realized that if aliens did exist, we would hear radio waves.. and see them possibly, but we don't, except youtube users, but nobody with a steady clear capable camera sees them... anyhow,


Not as easy as you think. We humans only used radio waves for over 100 years. They'll soon be obsolete. So, if aliens used them (lets be generous) for 500 years, and they were around a star 600 light years away, then their FIRST radio signals are STILL on the way here. Worse yet, if their LAST signal was sent 800 years ago, we'd have missed it. See, the thing with space, is that it's BIG....big, big, big. There is only a small window where we'd have to have comparable tech, to actually detect ANYTHING.


I was thinking so how come we never see Alien missionaries, I'm pretty sure they would have some type of belief system, and I could imagine a more advance species having more room for people to go off and settle with like minded individuals, example, Space Aliens who think like Amish folks and want a simple life... or maybe aliens who believe in racial superiority, or religious zelots.. why haven't we ran into any type of alien missionary?


Even if the Universe was TEEMING with life, it's still highly probably that only one such intelligent entity actually stumbled upon us. Of course, we also have NO frame of reference (other than ourselves) as to what would motivate them.


Bacteria and virus's are evil and something we can't see, and they continually evolve... can survive a ton of dif enviroments, and can go dormant..


Sure, and life, even intelligent life, may not take a form we'd even recognize (or see), for all we know.



Granted the tech they use is probably so far beyond what we could imagine... but there is one thing technology cannot do and that is defend us or them against super bacterias and virus's and probably some other type of long living lifeforms, probably been evolving since space became habitable, but stayed primitive because primitive lasts longer, but genes, and life is funny, somethings food is anothers poison.


Why not? Our own tech has already rendered many diseases extinct, and helped us fight even more. Who's to say they haven't eradicated it completely?

To even try and throw around numbers and percentages, we'd have to have at least ONE other example of a sentient alien species. We don't, so any numbers are strictly a GUESS at best...


or become sentient robots... at which case they might lose the possibility of reproducijng, but would gain ability to backup conciousness...


There are many researchers who feel the grays are just that, but more like biological robots.


Granted now we are gun ho as humans to want to float off, but the one time we made it to another rock, the moon, we never really went back... because a floating rock with no warmth, grass, or water is not fun for us.


You must realize the real REASON we went to the moon. It was to beat the Russians. Pure and simple. We had egg on our faces after Sputnik, so JFK led the charge to ensure we beat them to the moon. You must also consider, that we did go back, several missions. Just how much do you think we can accomplish on a dead rock? These days, our tech makes it cheaper and more practical to send unmanned probes into space vs. risking lives. Less romantic, but far better results for the buck.

I think there's evidence to suggest we're being visited, but even if space is teeming with intelligent life, they are probably so far away from each other, that they simply aren't aware of each other's existence. Granted though, if they can get here, then of course, they can get elsewhere, but that still requires some kind of search criteria vs. blindly looking in the universe for others.


edit on 26-9-2011 by Gazrok because: (no reason given)



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