It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Are Criminals Ever Forgiven?

page: 1
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 06:46 PM
link   
I bring this up as I saw a post on my Facebook pointing out a child molester living in a community near by, and people called him disgusting, perv, nasty and said they were going to drive him out.

So, I ask other people's opinions on here on the same sort of subject.

Although I believe that a child molester was having disturbing thoughts, and obviously has issues with self control with the fact he acted upon the urge to commit this act and possibly ruin a child's life, should this person ever be forgiven and accepted back in society without the judgment?

If he was sentenced, served his time, and was 'rehabilitated', came back into society should we be bashing and making his life hard after he has served his time? What else can he do to be accepted back into society, and not be shunned and insulted every chance other people get and pointed out as if a leper. What else other than what the laws have put into place can this person do?

I understand what was done to begin with was a horrible thing and I am in no way standing up for people like this, I am just looking for others opinions as most of us freak out when we know there is a criminal living near by.

I had this argument with my wife about Micheal Vick and his dog fighting. The man went to jail, pay fines and when he got out he now volunteers and is a spokesperson for the SPCA, but yet my wife thinks he's still guilty and less of a person because of this. I asked what else she wanted from him to accept him into 'normal' society without being judged and still to this day I have not got an answer.

I don't know, it's just a weird situation to me. I might be alone though.


Any thoughts?

Pred...




posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 06:49 PM
link   
reply to post by predator0187
 


I see both sides.. and I have to agree..

Whats the point of prison if not to pay a debt to society?



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 06:52 PM
link   
reply to post by Miraj
 




You summed up my entire post into a sentence.

I just never understood what people wanted from them. Why are these people always tainted with this label? Is that not a benefit of living in a 'free' society is that you can make an error and be forgiven?

Pred...



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 06:54 PM
link   
Child molesters are a group different from "regular criminals" in my opinion. There is absolutely no evidence that they can be rehabilitated. Thus, I do not know if your question is even relevant to the situation.

Let's address criminals in a more general way. Are they ever "forgiven"? I would say NO. Not in the US anyway. Almost everything is a felony these days. "Felons" are punished forever with the loss of many rights for the remainder of their lives. It does not matter the crime, only that it is a "felony". Murder someone? Lifetime punishment. Right a bad check for over $1000 also lifetime punishment. Obviously our criminal "justice" system is flawed. The term "felony" has lost all meaning. To me it is just a form of back door gun control.



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 07:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by predator0187
Although I believe that a child molester was having disturbing thoughts, and obviously has issues with self control with the fact he acted upon the urge to commit this act and possibly ruin a child's life, should this person ever be forgiven and accepted back in society without the judgment?

If he was sentenced, served his time, and was 'rehabilitated', came back into society should we be bashing and making his life hard after he has served his time? What else can he do to be accepted back into society, and not be shunned and insulted every chance other people get and pointed out as if a leper. What else other than what the laws have put into place can this person do?

I understand what was done to begin with was a horrible thing and I am in no way standing up for people like this, I am just looking for others opinions as most of us freak out when we know there is a criminal living near by.


I'd have a hard time ever trusting a previous child molester. They have something in their heads that just isn't "right", or they wouldn't have had that urge to begin with. I don't think that can be rehabilitated out of them. Normal people don't have to worry about urges toward children because those urges don't exist.



I had this argument with my wife about Micheal Vick and his dog fighting. The man went to jail, pay fines and when he got out he now volunteers and is a spokesperson for the SPCA, but yet my wife thinks he's still guilty and less of a person because of this. I asked what else she wanted from him to accept him into 'normal' society without being judged and still to this day I have not got an answer.


If Michael Vick is truly truly remorseful, then I would try to find forgiveness, as long as he has really learned how lovable animals are.

Other crimes, it depends on both the crime committed, and the person.



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 07:05 PM
link   
reply to post by predator0187
 



I think people can be sorry for their crimes, and sincerely want to change ..and we need to give them a chance.

Lets take a child molester for instance.. there are degrees to the types ..that some odd reason are attracted sexually to children...but perhaps don't know how to fight that urge.

I think community needs to understand that, and see that there is good in the person..and help them feel like they do matter....and they will be supported for diligently fighting against these urges.

I personally worry more about the child molesters that take delight in really hurting a child physically, and abusing it ...but I think that is another can of worms all together...and even those are not loss causes...if they are truly sorry about what they have done.

In the case of the Vic..who did the time.. I think we need to give him a chance as well..if he is sorry for what he did...and it appears that he is sorry.

The biggest gift we can give someone who wants to change , and is truly sorry..is forgiveness, and support in starting over.


Doing time for the crime doesn't mean they are always sorry though, and that is the key difference.

Just my two cents for now..for what its worth.



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 07:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
Child molesters are a group different from "regular criminals" in my opinion. There is absolutely no evidence that they can be rehabilitated. Thus, I do not know if your question is even relevant to the situation.

Let's address criminals in a more general way. Are they ever "forgiven"? I would say NO. Not in the US anyway. Almost everything is a felony these days. "Felons" are punished forever with the loss of many rights for the remainder of their lives. It does not matter the crime, only that it is a "felony". Murder someone? Lifetime punishment. Right a bad check for over $1000 also lifetime punishment. Obviously our criminal "justice" system is flawed. The term "felony" has lost all meaning. To me it is just a form of back door gun control.


Why are they different from regular criminals? Killing a person is very similar as it can be just as detrimental to a child to lose their parent(s). Jail itself is no form of rehabilitation, if anything it damages the person more...

As for revalvence, just take murders, if someone knows a person living nearby is a convicted murderer they are treated differently, and looked down upon. After serving their sentence they are still treated horribly and are shunned, yet they could be a new person.

I agree about the term felon. A man with a small amount of marijuana shouldn't be in the same category as a mass murderer.

Pred...



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 07:22 PM
link   
well, i caught a felony on a drug charge over 10 years ago after a 6 month period of experimentation, because i had never used them before and wanted to see what it was about......i had to plea guilty because they were in the habit of holding people their for up to 5 years without a trial and they offered me 3 so i took it....what they do is they keep postponing your trial for 5 years, my public pretender convinced me to sign a waiver of my right to my speedy trial....i didn't know anything about that stuff, so i did it.....they postponed my trial for 8 months before i finally signed the plea bargain....i had never been in trouble before that in my life and haven't been in trouble since then, yet i can't get a job now because of my felony record........i'm living in my car at the moment with no job....so i guess i actually signed an agreement for a life sentence is what it boils down to.....but i can tell you this, it wouldn't be going on if the business owners didn't precipitate it...........seems they are all jumping on the bandwagon of "no felonies whatsoever" in their employment ads.......i would be one of the best employees they ever had if they'd only hire me, but i don't see that happening.....



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 07:22 PM
link   
the " logic " that child molesters are recividists who cann never ever be rehabilitated or trusted can be just as easily applied to any other criminal .



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 07:23 PM
link   
In terms of child molesters as a group, everything I have ever heard or read, including conversations with prison correctional officers, would suggest they cannot really be rehabilitated. Whatever is cross-wired in their brains is permanently cross-wired. They can perhaps be kept out of harm's way and placed in a situation where they will be unlikely to re-offend, but it is the nature of the beast that they have to be watched by the rest of society for the rest of their lives.

Nevertheless I think you need to look at the individual situation. Sometimes people are compelled to register as sex offenders because, for example, an 18 year old had sex with a 17 year old. Did that person do anything "wrong"? In most of human history women were considered of marriageable age as soon as they were sexually mature. It has been suggested, for example, that Mary, mother of Jesus, was about 14 years old when he was born. So is God a sexual pervert? (Note: Just making a point, not suggesting the truth of the matter.) The reason for this is that lifespans were in the neighborhood of 28. If you did not use every chance possible to reproduce, you wouldn't. It was a matter of survival of the tribe.

So to some extent what society perceives as sexual deviancy varies with the times. In the fifties the liberal viewpoint on homosexuality was that it might be able to be cured after years of therapy and gays should probably not be shot on sight. Today, there are laws saying it's a "hate crime" to even suggest a transgender person is really screwed up. It's his/her "civil right" to change genders and we are compelled to bow to whatever the "LGBT Community" deems politically correct.

So here you get an interesting picture. In places in the Arabic world homosexuality carries the death penalty, yet older Shieks way past their prime can marry eight year olds.

Hmm...When it gets this weird, I don't know where forgiveness fits into the picture.



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 07:24 PM
link   
Are Criminals Ever Forgiven? Depends on who the criminal is!



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 07:27 PM
link   
I've been saying this since, well since i was convicted of a felony. I grew up in the upper midwest, I was 18, me and a kid went out drinking. He had this great idea about getting some snacks to eat while we "country cruised" aka drank while driving around in the middle of nowhere. Pretty common. wrong yes, but whatever. anywho, he tells me his aunt owns a little concession stand at the park next to the baseball field. so i'm like alright, i drive over, he goes in, grabs a box of chips, candy bars, beef jerky. Well come to find out his aunt didn't own it. Couple weeks later i was arrested on a burglary charge. (my first criminal charge ever) He had rolled over and told them my involvement (eating the food and driving him around afterwards), and made a deal to not be prosecuted as long as he'd testify against me. So there i was, 18, being shipped off to state prison for 3 years. Sound unbeliveable? it was. I did 10 months, got out on parole. did another 2 1/2 years on parole. never got in a bit of trouble. Anyways, i've been off parole for nearly 9 years, still haven't gotten in any trouble, yet i have a scar on me for life. Apply for a job? good luck, you have to know someone for them to look beyond the lable. I had a good career in asbestos removal, ran my own crew and everything. $30/ hour, sweet job, did it for 6 years until bam 2009 rolls around an i'm laid off because i can't get an approval to work in a nuclear plant anymore. even though i have over 4000 work hours in nuke plants. even though the only thing i've done wrong in life was eat a snickers and drive a #ty person around.

Moral of the story, the prison system/judicial system is made to keep you in once you get in. you sit in a box for months/years on end and one day get released with no help, no rehabilitation, no money, no job, nothing. and you are expected to make it. I'm one of the lucky ones who had a wonderful family to help me get back on my feet, otherwise, i'd most likely be sitting in a box at this very moment.



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 07:30 PM
link   
reply to post by predator0187
 
\

I can't compare Michael Vick and his dog fighting to pedophiles molesting children, but that's just me. I don't know, somehow I think a child's life is worth a bit more than a dog's. I can't even think of anything else to say, which is different for me.



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 07:35 PM
link   
reply to post by queenofsheba
 


While you cannot compare the two, society and the criminal system does.

I also was not comparing the crimes, I was comparing how they are treated after their sentence.

Pred...



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 08:01 PM
link   
The system has embedded forgiveness for child molesters more than for any other offender. Everyone is concerned with how to rehabilitate them. I never hear that concern expressed for rapists of women, or bank robbers. or murderers. Secondly in many states they do sentences that are laughable, like in Massachusettes where a man who raped a 4 year old boy at the Boston Public Library got a 2 year sentence. If you research it, you'll see this is common across the states. Then they go on registry lists which they decry as some kind of double jeopardy but the truth is, registration allows society to justify letting them out long before what justice would demand. So I don't worry about forgiveness for these people. They already have more of it than practically any other criminal, in practise. Whether they have it in the hearts of the people, I really don't care. If you want to worry about someone, worry about the child who usually will not get the help he needs to cope with what happened.



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 08:08 PM
link   
People who have sex with children and animals are the lowest life forms on the planet.

I would rather have one of these disgusting creatures living around people who are going to keep an eye on him instead of running him off to live somewhere where nobody surrounding him gives a damn who he is and what he's doing.

The people who posted on your facebook page should personally deliver the pedo a welcome basket with a note making it clear that he is going to be closely watched.

Bottom line: Trust is earned. It is hard to ever trust someone who stole a child's innocense.
Just because you did your time doesn't mean that you are who you were prior to the crime.



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 08:25 PM
link   
how did this post get to be about pedophiles???????



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 09:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by patternfinder
how did this post get to be about pedophiles???????


because it was used as an example in the op..is my guess



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 09:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by Afterthought
People who have sex with children and animals are the lowest life forms on the planet.

I would rather have one of these disgusting creatures living around people who are going to keep an eye on him instead of running him off to live somewhere where nobody surrounding him gives a damn who he is and what he's doing.

The people who posted on your facebook page should personally deliver the pedo a welcome basket with a note making it clear that he is going to be closely watched.

Bottom line: Trust is earned. It is hard to ever trust someone who stole a child's innocense.
Just because you did your time doesn't mean that you are who you were prior to the crime.


I can understand your feelings..but what about the ones that were mind controlled into having sex with animals..?

I think of Cathy O'brian when you say those words..and I see a really good soul ..who was born into the wrong family..

Try reading some excerpts of Trance Formation of America....and see if you would still think that way.



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 10:51 PM
link   
reply to post by gabby2011
 


Not only that, but most child molesters were molested themselves so they are just continuing what they know and how they were raised. They are a product of society that we have yet to figure out how they work, and that's why rehabilitation is hard in these situations.

Anyways, this isn't just about what crime you were convicted of, it is the ramifications of society when you get out, after you served your time, and the fact that people cannot be accepted after they have paid their time.

Pred...



new topics

top topics



 
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join