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The Case for Satan (Let the Defense speak)

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posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 12:23 AM
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reply to post by NZkraw
 

Actually your jahova (lord god, enill) told people to worship him or die, and told his followers to kill anyone that doesnt follow their beliefs.
When did I say that was my God?




posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 12:37 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


If you believe in jahova, or as you said the god of the NT, the same 'god' of the OT: You said that you traded gods, when both the NT and OT gods are the same. So it is your god, because of your posts.



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 08:07 AM
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reply to post by NZkraw
 
No, I don't think so.
The NT cherry picks prophecies out of the OT but does not describe the NT God as being the same person as who is being called, god. in the OT.
Jesus points out that his God is not the same god as who they were supposedly worshiping.
The NT describes the old system of ordinances and death as being administered by angels.


edit on 29-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 11:56 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Luckily for me i know your bible better then you do. I hear so many christians now a days claim that the Old Testament is defunct for jesus was the “lamb” to clear away its rules and regulations. This is just another bull# scapegoat that christians use to ignore the atrocities and bizarre laws commanded by their god. Their preachers spoon feed them that the Old Testament is no longer binding so that they can excuse the majority of evil that the bible promotes. I am so tired of christians manipulating the scriptures so that they can assign a kinder nature to their god, that I have assembled a BRIEF list of verses which clearly show that the OT is not to be ignored. Its laws should indeed be adhered to, for the NT demands it! After this section I shall list where the bible contradicts itself concerning other laws.

Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17)

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17)

“the scripture cannot be broken.” (John 10:35)

Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then this nazerene said so.

Plus some more verses for you to feast your eyes on...
Exodus 3:21-22, 12:35-36 & Luke 19:29-34 all promote stealing.
Exodus 20:16. Proverbs 12:22 & Revelations 21:8 all say lying is forbidden. Joshua 2:4-6, Exodus 1:18-20 & 1 Kings 22:21-22 all support lying.
Exodus 32:27, Numbers 31, and THOUSANDS of other verses show your god commanding us to kill.
Hebrews 13:4. Now look at Numbers 31:18, Hosea 1:2 & 2:1-3 where adultery is advocated by your god
Proverbs 31:6-7, 1 Timothy 5:23 & Psalms 104:15 all encourage drinking and intoxication.

edit on 9/30/2011 by NZkraw because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 12:38 AM
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reply to post by NZkraw
 
I'm not exactly overwhelmed by your argument.
In one verse, Jesus is "warning about the pharisees" who loved money and I would guess that they made some money as divorce attorneys by finding legal loopholes. Jesus is basically calling them criminals and are going to hell or some bad place.
That was the "easier for heaven and earth to pass away" verse.
The "scripture can not be broken" saying was probably something like, 'look it up" where either the scripture says it, or it does not, and probably a term the Pharisees themselves used.



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 12:47 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



We all should know by now that jesus was a hypocrite along with people that believe in his following.
Yes, but the verse itself that i quoted says that the laws wont go away "as it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away" then to take away the OT laws.

As it says the scriptures can not be broken, you cant break them up to mean something else (which is just what christians do). No the Pharisees didn't use that term jesus did.

Oh well, i guess ill just have to get used to christians being as hypocritical and judgmental as their 'saviour'.
edit on 9/30/2011 by NZkraw because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by NZkraw
 
When Jesus says things like, "I have not come to destroy the Law and the Prophets, but to fulfill them", he is talking about a fundamental law that he taught, which was actually stricter when it comes to how you treat others, but completely ignores all the tedious parts that have to do with that Yahweh dude. So he never throws in the word, Moses, when he says that.



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 02:02 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Wouldn't you like to think that what you're saying is fact lol. Nope its just another christian rant saying something that fits in the same category as "that's not my god" and "that's not my church". Practically speaking, it's just more brainwashing christian dogma.



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 02:34 AM
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reply to post by NZkraw
 
I did not come by it from it being taught to me.
It is one of those things I had to figure out myself, since my church was a little too much into the OT god thing.
So it is a bit of a rebellion for me to think the way I do.



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 02:40 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Well, that's cool. Clearly i was wrong thinking of you as a "fundie" and i apologize.
We all have our opinions, as i have mine and you have yours on this subject

I want to ask, whats with all the contradictions in the bible?
edit on 9/30/2011 by NZkraw because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 03:17 AM
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reply to post by NZkraw
 
Because back in the day, regular people would never actually see what has become what we now know as "the Bible", and only priests and other people who were being paid by the system, who never worried about that sort of thing, such as contradictions, since they were already sold out.


edit on 30-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 07:34 AM
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reply to post by NZkraw
 


In many ways I actually 'side' with you, so don't take this as backstabbing.

But I CAN see the distinction JW is making (and which I consider clearly presented).

This doesn't however oblige me to 'believe' in either of the optional 'gods'. I just consider JW and his 'god' as potentially good neighbours with whom I would have no problems.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 03:49 AM
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Well done ButterCookie; you’ve provided a very creative concept and your research is to be commended. I am a former Christian and appreciate your compilation of so many verses describing a cruel and vindictive God in the Old Testament.

I’m currently reading a book entitled “Flying Serpents and Dragons” by R.A. Boulay. It is an extremely interesting read and for me clarifies much of the half-truths and mysteries of the Bible. Mr. Boulay claims that Jehovah / Yahweh of the Old Testament was actually an alien being who was first the local mountain god called Adad in Anatolia (Turkey). Viewing the entire God/man relationship and interactions in the OT, it makes much more sense for me to believe that the “Gods” were actually ETs, and that would explain why they were so bloodthirsty, vengeful, angry and punitive. Anyone interested can read the book on-line here - www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

As a Christian for 30 years trying to make sense from the Bible’s writings was crazy-making for me. So much of it didn’t make any sense at all to me. There are huge gaps in much of the Bible; for instance, what ever happened to King Solomon? Jehovah gave him incredible Wisdom (so the story goes) but then Solomon directly disobeys Jehovah by building shrines to all the foreign gods that Jehovah forbad and worshipped them, which he was forbidden to do. So where did all his wisdom go? What happened to him when he died? Was he taken to glory to be with the Lord forever? The Bible gives no information about Solomon’s eternal fate for disobeying the Lord. If the bible is God’s Testament to mankind, a road map to heaven as it’s often referred to in Christian circles – why am I left scratching my head with more questions than answers after reading it?

Why was the Tower of Babel such a threat to an all mighty God? Why did God feel so threatened that he confused mankind’s language so communication was interrupted?
The bible is full of contradictions, consider the following; do the sons bear the sins of the fathers or not?

1. Yes they do
A. (Exodus 20:5) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me."
B. (Deuteronomy 5:9) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"
C. (Exodus 34:6-7) - "Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in loving kindness and truth; 7who keeps loving kindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations."
D. (1 Cor. 15:22) - "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive."

2. No they don't
A. (Deuteronomy 24:16) - "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin."
B. (Ezekiel 18:20) - "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."

Eh? Does Jehovah speak out of both sides of his mouth? Of course the answer lies with the priests, scribes and monks who translated the text. It’s pretty obvious that so much of the Bible has been twisted to conform to the writers or current Pope’s views and beliefs. The Pauline epistles are full of Paul’s misogynistic views; he clearly degrades women to second class citizens. Paul was very dogmatic also; it was his way or the highway.

I watch Ancient Aliens and that makes so much more sense to me, than the stories in the Bible. There is so much architectural evidence of an advanced intelligence behind the building of all the ancient monuments around the world. Why were pyramids such a common feature of so many ancient civilizations? Why were they and many other ancient structures aligned to magnetic north? It seems to me that there was a common shared advanced knowledge of astronomy and a deeper meaning to it all.

I for one agree with ButterCookie’s supposition that the lord Jehovah was not the benevolent, all loving God that He is portrayed to be. There a dichotomy between being kind and merciful and having thunder, smoke and lightening as back drops to most things that Jehovah did. Jehovah’s judgments were beyond harsh.

Again I must commend ButterCookie for her concept of setting this thread in the context of a courtroom drama. Nice job ButterCookie.

Best Wishes All



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 04:21 AM
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reply to post by fishing4truth
 

The Pauline epistles are full of Paul’s misogynistic views; he clearly degrades women to second class citizens. Paul was very dogmatic also; it was his way or the highway.
That would be the so-called Letters to Timothy, which likely were not written by Paul. So some of your anti-Christian sentiments may be misplaced and rightly should be put in opposition to the clergy-for-orthodoxy who made a religion of it by forging letters in promotion of that goal. Better to salvage the pre-orthodox Christianity than discarding it on grounds of what it had been later made out to be.
Thanks for the link and there is something being guarded there at Sinai that the authorities do not want anyone examining, for one reason or another, and I would suspect the groups dependent on people supporting their religion, such as Israel.
edit on 3-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 08:24 AM
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I used to be a Christian until I began to see way too many contradictions and cruelty by the Lord God...

In church, I remember thinking, "Satan is not scary....can't recall what he' done....but Lord GOD....he's something to be afraid of.

Then I could remember the fear that was installed to 'persuade' me to give my life and soul to the Lord......
edit on 3-10-2011 by ButterCookie because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by ButterCookie
 
I think that too, but then it is all filtered through people with an agenda, church pews to fill and offerings coming in and nice salaries for the officials. People resurrected the OT god to scare people from being gay and things, so they ruined the whole NT idea, then throw in some books like Jude, and 2 Thessalonians, and Revelation to revive all that vengeful OT god imagery to keep people scared. At least you seem to have learned your lesson on churches.


edit on 3-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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Unfortunately, you have this all wrong because Satan is the Victim, not the defendant in this Court. So if Satan could come forth, I'm sure S/He'd have a Bible in Hand to throw back into Court complaining about our nations 1st Amendment and breach of contract, promise and dishonor of all the oaths free;u sworn on a Bible before We the People. Satan's had many roles and disguies but if the truth be told; as GOD's other kid she is an escape goat, burnt offering and the Black Sheep in the Trinity family. God's Prodical Daughter who was allowed to come to and from or even Get away with murder. But according to the bible the reason Satan fell was because of what was in Her Heart; "I sit as a queen and shall be no widow". I just think Satan is sick and tired of folks blaming stuff on Her and saying the Devil Made Me Do It; when She did not and they thought up all that evil by themself. According to Any KJV of the Bible; You wont find anywhere Satan ever disobeyed GOD like Adam 7 Eve or the rest of yall. So in this story, Satan is Innocent; well at least Not Guilty because the Record shows; it was Adam who Deceived Eve by adding to the Words of GOD by telling Eve She also couldnt Touch the tree or she would die. Didnt you ever wonder where Eve Got that Big Fat Fish Story, I mean little White Lie.

reply to post by ButterCookie
 



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by ButterCookie
 
I think that too, but then it is all filtered through people with an agenda, church pews to fill and offerings coming in and nice salaries for the officials. People resurrected the OT god to scare people from being gay and things, so they ruined the whole NT idea, then throw in some books like Jude, and 2 Thessalonians, and Revelation to revive all that vengeful OT god imagery to keep people scared. At least you seem to have learned your lesson on churches.


edit on 3-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


Oh indeed!!

And I agree.

I started to feel 'scared' and bullied by the peer pressure into 'giving my life to the lord' (baptised) and I did so only to appease my relatives.

Once it was over, I felt nothing different.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 07:50 PM
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reply to post by ButterCookie
 
My experience was different where it seemed more a guilt thing, as if I was harming my parents, where they were suffering from grief, knowing I was not saved, or something like that, which came from the pastor. I doubt any of it was true and that my father probably thought I needed to get in line as a good example for my younger siblings.



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 01:09 AM
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reply to post by ButterCookie
 


when i went to church i never felt like i fit in i was like the social loner lol




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