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Oh, so your a libertarian!! cool!

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posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 09:20 AM
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That's what I got from the guy who's fixing my fireplace......
He said he is too, pretty much, except that he is voting bush so kerry won't get in.. He votes libertarian any chance he gets, but do you see what Badnarik means that libertarian is everybody's second choice?? His dad is a libertarian, and he will always libertarian... But do you see??

We gotta get brainwashing bs out of everybody's heads!

People know what libertarian's stand for, people know their policies aren't bunk and their promises aren't bs, but apparantly it's not good enough. Apparantly people have to vote the "other" guy out so he doesn't get in, so they play the two political parties game and ENABLE THEM!! :bnghd:

[edit on 26-8-2004 by TrueLies]




posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 09:25 AM
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I live in Britain, so i don't have a clue what a libertarian stands for, being as your libertarian, what do you stand for? I've heard lots of people talking about libertarian but have quite understood it.

eg.. Left wing, right wing?
Pro-europe, anti-europe
Pro-iraq, anti-iraq
etc

thanks

(damn i confused myself with that question)



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 09:28 AM
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I agree...the BS with people saying stuff like "A vote for Nader is a vote for Bush", etc. has to stop because its simply untrue. I'm going to vote my conscious which will mean a vote for Nader! However, even people I meet that like Nader say they are voting for Kerry just so Bush doesn't win, and I think "wow...thats flawed beliefs." I personally don't see how voting for someone you really don't agree with is Patriotic or Democratic? Third parties will never stand a chance if people keep voting for the two parties in control, because at the time of every election one of them will say "dont vote for him because its a vote against me" etc.....

Its a neverending cycle, and the average Joe doesn't catch on...

[edit on 26-8-2004 by Jazzerman]



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by UK Wizard
I live in Britain, so i don't have a clue what a libertarian stands for, being as your libertarian, what do you stand for? I've heard lots of people talking about libertarian but have quite understood it.

eg.. Left wing, right wing?
Pro-europe, anti-europe
Pro-iraq, anti-iraq
etc

thanks

(damn i confused myself with that question)



We stand for one thing above all else ........Freedom

Herer is a link that will answer any questions you have
www.lp.org...


[edit on 26-8-2004 by Amuk]



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 09:46 AM
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Tell me about it!

Their enabler's and they have an EXCUSE for it! The other problem with third parties is getting on the ballots in different states.
If these liberals and republicans really cared about freedom, they wouldn't try and shut others out, they wouldn't try and censor...

These aholes take an oath to uphold the constitution before they get in office officially and in the past 20 years i've seen nothing but them screwing with it!

We need a party that will actually PROMISE to uphold it, but these damn politicians will say whatever whenever to stick their hands in the money bag.

When are people going to realise this. The libertarian party is one that is unique because it's really what everybody wants, unless your a commie/socialist...

The lp would be taking care of this countries security while upholding our constitution and civil rights, not jeapordizing them, they would take care of the environment not say they will meanwhile playing the hush hush game and allowing corps to dump more the the regulated toxic level...

Have you guys heard how many states 42 have dead fish all over the place because the EPA has illegally rewritten the toxic levels for corporations to dump toxic chemicals in our lakes?? Thank god their being sued but that doesn't solve our problems underneath the water. Our ecosystems are going to #, this is our home and their ruining it all to save money on disposing of their dirty work responsibily..

Guns: Wouldn't be screwed with...
Laws: Would be upheld but not the ones that intrude on our everyday lives.
isssues: www.badnarik.org/issues

I'm not the best person to ask because my brain soaks it up but when it's time to spit it out, it comes out in bits and i'm not the best "professional" explainer.. I know it in my head, but coming out is something different...



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 09:48 AM
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Originally posted by Amuk
We stand for one thing above all else ........Freedom
Here is a link that will answer any questions you have
www.lp.org...[edit on 26-8-2004 by Amuk]



Pretty much ... That's it in a nutshell...

I guess people don't care about freedom anymore if they can get babysat, taken care of, and spoonfed....



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 10:21 AM
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After a brief look at the site (thanks for the link) i found it interesting.
Although i don't agree with many of the issues, such as the legalising of drugs Drug Discussion Thread

I think the libertarian's make a nice change to the tunnel vision ideals of the Democrats and Republicans.

America needs more than just two parties and the libertarian's look like they are really going to mess the Democrats and Republicans up.



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 10:29 AM
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I'm voting libertarien this year. Why? Because they want what i want...Less Big Government in my life. More control to the states and less federal control.
Pretty vague, but I'm sure that if you check our the libertarian website you'll get some great details!



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by UK Wizard
After a brief look at the site (thanks for the link) i found it interesting.
Although i don't agree with many of the issues, such as the legalising of drugs Drug Discussion Thread



Yes, but if you look at it like there is no double standard you will see that the legalization of drugs is part of individual freedoms. As long as they aren't bugging you, interfering in others lives, feel free to shoot yourself up as long as you want..

You can't believe in individual rights and freedoms truly if you are going to have a double standard and tell people what freedoms they can and can't have... It just doesn't work.



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by TrueLies

Originally posted by UK Wizard
After a brief look at the site (thanks for the link) i found it interesting.
Although i don't agree with many of the issues, such as the legalising of drugs Drug Discussion Thread



Yes, but if you look at it like there is no double standard you will see that the legalization of drugs is part of individual freedoms. As long as they aren't bugging you, interfering in others lives, feel free to shoot yourself up as long as you want..

You can't believe in individual rights and freedoms truly if you are going to have a double standard and tell people what freedoms they can and can't have... It just doesn't work.


ANd think of all the tax dollars that will be saved when it won't be necessary to send every jo schmo who was caught smoking weed to jail. No more over crowded prisons. Most likely a major drop in gang violence and cartel violence. Of course they'll just have to find a new substance to illegally pedal.



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 10:59 AM
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I'm a member of the Ontario Libertarian Party. These are our principles: www.libertarian.on.ca/principles.htm



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 11:00 AM
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I often stradle between democratic and libertarian...Last election I voted for Gore b/c that's who I wanted to win, and he did win, he just didn't become president of course....

This election, I want to vote Nader - luckily I live in a state where I can vote outside of what's on my voter's registration card....but I guess I'm going to have to fall under the lump of idiots who vote for Kerry - Bush has to get out - he stole my last vote and he's proven to put it to no good use at all....I would rather know that my vote went to a major political party that is sure to win and replace him than to a third party that may only receive 5% of the vote.

Here's where the Kerry bashers will tell me, well Kerry is actually like so much worse than Bush dude....you know what - I want proof that someone can be more destructive than this fu**ing idiot we have now...I want to see a friggin certificate stamped in gold and signed by every Kerry basher maybe 1 or 2 years from now saying that everything Bush did pales in comparison to what Kerry has done...

I think its a reasonable decision....I know its a step backwards for third party support - and believe me, I don't like that....I equally despise the greed and corruption in our two major parties, but I need this satisfaction just once - And its not as if a hate Kerry's ideas - I can't stand his wife, but that's another story....I'm not voting for someone I don't really want to win and I'm not voting for the person I truly want to win, and in my eyes the means justify the end....



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 11:17 AM
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EOH,

What are the issues between libertarian and liberal that your at a tug of war with...



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 01:06 PM
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Here's a few things the libertarian party, as a whole, supports that I don't:

  1. Drug Prohibition....I agree that the drug war is doing more damage than good, but I don't think drugs like coc aine, heroin and the rest of those lab-produced drugs should be lifted of their illegal status
  2. Self-Defense....I agree that people should be allowed guns, but also think they should be certain types of guns only for certain purposes - Who really needs an automatic shotgun to kill a deer or to protect their home?
  3. Foreign Aid....I think ending this would be a bad idea - there are many countries unlike Iraq which we support for positive purposes....I also think that this would justify cutting the Peace Corps from federal budgets and that would be a sad day.
  4. Open Immigration....we have plenty of illegal aliens - I'm not on the side of saying America should be only "Americans" (what in the hell is that!?) but I think we should learn to better deal with our current situations before we open the doors for millions of people in need of change - they've come looking for something better, not for changes occuring while they're adjusting - many see America as a stable country and we should bolster that image first
  5. Welfare.....I see it as both a burden for our nation and a blessing for many people - tighten the loopholes and keep a closer eye on the recipients and their empolyment status

I think the libertarian party, and almost all third parties for that matter, do a much better job of actually spelling out the beliefs of its members - sure there's wiggle room here and there....but for democrats and republicans, the middle ground gets hazy, with people hanging on to two opposite ends and calling themselves teammates

I think the campaign issues for Kerry are blurry at best...but it's the party that I support, not the man - Everybody probablly knows at least one good politician or several good-hearted, hard-working, intelligent people that they would choose to lead this country if they could - and we'd have a million people on the ballot....but I guess we have to suck it up and make the most out of what the official party delegates see in their best interest


The day we have a real choice of who become's president is when we boot the existing gov't and install our own - but that's too radical for most people to accept and so we just have to enjoy finding our spot in the muddy line of what's right and what's wrong and hope we picked the right side.....

That's just my 2 cents on it tho....I tend to get pesimestic when discusing where my loyalties lie



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by TrueLies
That's what I got from the guy who's fixing my fireplace......
He said he is too, pretty much, except that he is voting bush so kerry won't get in.. He votes libertarian any chance he gets, but do you see what Badnarik means that libertarian is everybody's second choice?? His dad is a libertarian, and he will always libertarian... But do you see??

We gotta get brainwashing bs out of everybody's heads!


You can use a carrot...oryou can use a stick. Ue the stick: a microeconomics lesson of telling him he's not finishing your repair & you're taking your business elsewhere would work!!
I wholeheartedly agree that people should vote Badnarik; I can't say the same for Nadar. I think his whorishness of soliciting and accepting Republican money & networks was beyond the pale. He went from patron saint to streetwalker in too short a cycle.
I do still believe a vote for Nadar is a waste, but have soften on the Bush enabling portion. I've spoken to too many people who want him out & Nadar won't get the college vote again.



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 02:46 PM
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Oh EOH,

I'm getting tired of replying my opinion... I'm just going to say a few things before have a nap from all the drama today.

Nobody has the right to step in and tell people what guns they can gave and can't even if they want to protect their homes or hunt. Guns are a sport, people like shotting at targets, thats why they go to ranges, it's a hobby, the responsible people find it fun, therapeutic in a way, and enjoyable to shoot and hear the bang.. who are people to tell other people what they can have and can't.. That's not freedom.

You want to put limitations on immigrants, I agree. Somewhat, I think the loopholes need to be tightened as well, do you see democrats stopping this? I don't I see them enabling the size of the loopholes, such as putting damn water jugs along the desert lines for mexicans to drink to survive their illegal entry...

Drugs, well you smoke pot, wouldn't you like it legal? your picture below on your sig says to smoke the vote.. who are you to tell other druggies what they can put into their bodies and what they can't... And again, i'm not being mean, so don't get "negative' just making a point and throwing you a bone..

The other thing is foreign policy... They would not stop defending this country, thats one of the things they strongly believe in... That's what government should be about, a strong military defense, keep the people safe, but do not intrude in our lives in any small minute way and do not make federal gov a centralized power over the states, you cannot do that... You just can't, and we are.. And it's just going to get worse the way your all voting...

Welfare......Sure it's a blessing and a curse... You take that away and you no longer have a curse, and the blessing become organizations and charities and local people who will help local people in need.. These people would be better taken care of, they would get more help, better help, and the people who would be working to help them would be more adaquate.
I can't remember the other things you mentioned.. so feel free to debate me some more...



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 04:48 PM
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Well - the other things I mentioned I thought were fairly important with regards to the point I was trying to make, so I'll just quote them here:


I think the libertarian party, and almost all third parties for that matter, do a much better job of actually spelling out the beliefs of its members - sure there's wiggle room here and there....but for democrats and republicans, the middle ground gets hazy, with people hanging on to two opposite ends and calling themselves teammates

I think the campaign issues for Kerry are blurry at best...but it's the party that I support, not the man - Everybody probablly knows at least one good politician or several good-hearted, hard-working, intelligent people that they would choose to lead this country if they could - and we'd have a million people on the ballot....but I guess we have to suck it up and make the most out of what the official party delegates see in their best interest

The day we have a real choice of who become's president is when we boot the existing gov't and install our own - but that's too radical for most people to accept and so we just have to enjoy finding our spot in the muddy line of what's right and what's wrong and hope we picked the right side.....

That's just my 2 cents on it tho....I tend to get pesimestic when discusing where my loyalties lie

At any rate TrueLies...don't get yourself too worked up - I'm just postulating here, not spouting any kind of glorious truth....these are all just opinions I hold, which, if you read what I quoted above, I find far more valuable then that of my party or whoever may be in office due to x number of votes in "my favor"....



Drugs, well you smoke pot, wouldn't you like it legal? your picture below on your sig says to smoke the vote.. who are you to tell other druggies what they can put into their bodies and what they can't

Yes, I support NORML, and yes, I do smoke weed on occasion - although it's been quite a while since I have...like about 4-5 months I'd say....but not everyone who does drugs wants them legalized believe it or not - Here's where the parnoia sets in - lol - most people who are against it but use them are afraid that once they become legal they'll become more expensive and they'll have to kick their habits....this is pretty lousy thinking if you ask me...

I'm all for legalization of natural drugs....I think it's ridculous for the gov't to make a plant which grows in the soil of this Earth illegal and to persecute people for using it in the privacy of their own homes - However, I don't believe that lab-produced drugs should be legal b/c there are more unknown factors and they're, in general, used by the fringe lunatics who commit crimes and never learn and abuse rather than use their drug - those that can use it privately and not put others in harm are not of my concern, b/c regardless of which way the bricks may fall, illegal drugs will always continue to be made and used and sheltered from the eye-sight of law enforcement....I'm not saying what people can or can't use, rather what I personally regard as acceptable for the use of society and not acceptable....also the views expressed by NORML

Regarding your comments of foreign policy....I actually said foreign aid - so there's a difference there I think worth looking back over again...here's what both you and I said:


Me - Foreign Aid....I think ending this would be a bad idea - there are many countries unlike Iraq which we support for positive purposes....I also think that this would justify cutting the Peace Corps from federal budgets and that would be a sad day.

You - The other thing is foreign policy... They would not stop defending this country, thats one of the things they strongly believe in... That's what government should be about, a strong military defense, keep the people safe, but do not intrude in our lives in any small minute way and do not make federal gov a centralized power over the states, you cannot do that... You just can't, and we are.. And it's just going to get worse the way your all voting...


I agree with your comments on welfare - charities would be a better solution, but we can't simply wipe welfare off the maps and hope that other people will step in - this will have to be a gradual change....

I don't know if taking water jugs away from illegal aliens is going to keep them from being resilient....once they touch US soil, they're given whatever they want anyways - all they have to do is make it there....

But you see - where we disagree is just our different party affiliations...and to that, I say read what I began this post quoting....I'm currently taking a tally of people who want to over-run the gov't....you give me an okay and we can start planning a date
Hey - I'm serious...it's our right as pissed off citizens of this country...look at France - they make it a regular occurence


[edit on 8/26/2004 by EnronOutrunHomerun]



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by TrueLies
Nobody has the right to step in and tell people what guns they can gave and can't even if they want to protect their homes or hunt. Guns are a sport, people like shotting at targets, thats why they go to ranges, it's a hobby, the responsible people find it fun, therapeutic in a way, and enjoyable to shoot and hear the bang.. who are people to tell other people what they can have and can't.. That's not freedom.


With all due respect TL, I am a gun lover myself, but I do not think people should have unlimited access to automatic weapons, do you remember those two bankrobbers that took LA hostage with a couple fully auto AK's? Not everybody uses guns for therapeutic reasons, many people snap and if they were to have an AR-15 or an AK-47 at their disposal, just think about the damage they could do and the numbers of people that they could kill if they were to go to a busy shopping mall during the holiday season, not that these weapons are unattainable, but making them readily available would be insane, and where do you propose we draw the line, should we be allowed to have RPG's, etc?



Drugs, well you smoke pot, wouldn't you like it legal? your picture below on your sig says to smoke the vote.. who are you to tell other druggies what they can put into their bodies and what they can't... And again, i'm not being mean, so don't get "negative' just making a point and throwing you a bone..


Smoking pot and staying awake for a week on meth are two different things entirely. We should tell "other druggies" what they put in their bodies, when it may cause them to lose control of their own mental process and hurt themselves or others. Someone who smokes a joint will likely veg out on the TV and eat junkfood, that's about the most harm they will do. If they drive, they may miss their turn or forget where they are going, but they are in COMPLETE control of their motor functions and depth perception (unlike alcohol), don't believe the propaganda, pot is nowhere near the same as other drugs, you cannot overdose on it either, if you smoke to much, you fall asleep, that's it. Other drugs like heroin, coke, meth, etc. not only can kill you, it can cause you to kill others, there was a father here in AZ a few years ago who beheaded his own child because he had been up on meth for who knows how long and claimed he thought his son was the devil. Why would you support these harmful substances being legalized?



[edit on 26-8-2004 by 27jd]



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 05:57 PM
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Dudes, dudes, dudes... With all due respect, I enjoy your posts I really do, I do agree that everything is good in "moderation" indulgence, and ignorance don't go well together.

However, you guys are giving examples of such a thing, and i'm talking about the responsible people doing responsible things... These are the majorty, youguys are simply speaking for a few peoples, why makes laws based a few turkey's?? There are always going to be turkey's but you can't make everybody else suffer... It's just not cool...

And meth is a good example of your drug point, however, I believe in darwinism and I would rather have the laws of nature take care of those nuckle heads then law enforcement, law enforcement can't really do anything.
Don't people stay up on meth all week as it is??



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd
Not everybody uses guns for therapeutic reasons, many people snap and if they were to have an AR-15 or an AK-47 at their disposal, just think about the damage they could do and the numbers of people that they could kill if they were to go to a busy shopping mall during the holiday season, not that these weapons are unattainable, but making them readily available would be insane, and where do you propose we draw the line, should we be allowed to have RPG's, etc?

[edit on 26-8-2004 by 27jd]



I dont have a problem with them having ANY weapon including an RPG, if you really wanted to kill a bunch of people a trip Wal-Mart will give you everything you need to make one hell of a bomb.The Twin Towers were took down with a box cutter and the building in OKC was taken down with fertilizer. If you really want to kill a bunch of people a gun isnt the way to go.

When I was a kid you could buy TNT at the hardware store, no-one needed to show ID to get a gun, pot was grown fairly openly, welfare was unheard of, you could buy the stuff to make meth at the same hardware store, EVERYBODY was armed, hell I took a gun to SCHOOL so I could go hunting afterwards, most people didnt even have a freaking drivers Lic. much less a permit for a gun.

And Guess what?

The world didnt come to an end. People werent killing each other in the streets etc.



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