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US Students Arrested And Convicted For Disrupting Speech

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posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 01:22 PM
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Ten Muslim college students in California were convicted and sentenced to probation on Friday for disrupting a speech at their university by Israel's ambassador to the United States.

The students, whose case touched off a furor over free speech rights at the University of California at Irvine, were also ordered to perform 56 hours of community service by an Orange County Superior Court judge.

A jury of six men and six women convicted the students of one count each of conspiracy and disturbing an assembly after an eight-day trial -- a verdict that was greeted by wails and sobbing from spectators in a packed courtroom in Santa Ana.

~~~~~~

The case stems from a protest organized by the Muslim Student Union at UC Irvine of a February 2010 speech there by Michael Oren, the Israeli ambassador to the United States.


www.reuters.com...



These students didn't hurt anybody, the police didn't even need to walk down the aisle to get them, the students VOLUNTARILY left after making their comments. If you watch the 5:15 - 5:30 mark you will see people in the crowd giving the students the bird and ##SNIP## You also see and hear their dean telling them that they were getting "failed" for their comments. How can a professor fail you for making comments at a speech? The students are not in college to study Michael Oren, why is his speech mandatory for them to pass?

I have seen people disrupt the President of The United States during speeches. I guess the Israeli ambassador to the United States is more important than the actual President! Arrested, convicted and sentenced for exercising their first amendment rights. People hate Muslims so much that they will arrest and convict their own college students for disagreeing with a man from another country! At least the students were American!



Speaking to Al Jazeera from Berkeley, California, Liz Jackson from Students for Justice in Palestine, said that this conviction was a "disgrace to the criminal justice system".

"This is a political witchhunt trial that reminds me of what I studied about McCarthyism in the 1950s," she said.

Arab and Muslim students are more vulnerable when they protests because of Islamophobic sentiments, but trials like this are actually encouraging more students to speak out against Israel, Jackson said.


www.liveleak.com...




edit on 9/25/2011 by ProphecyPhD because: added picture

edit on 9/25/2011 by ProphecyPhD because: (no reason given)

Mod Note: Do Not Evade the Automatic Censors – Please Review This Link.




posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 01:27 PM
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In America you only have "fee speech" until you enforce it, then you are tagged a terrorist and an insurgent, That is what goes on in the great nation of the free this days.

People still doesn't get it, you will get a lot of negative post because is going to be turn into Muslims against Israel, shame that this is happening to anybody lately regardless of religious affiliations.

Welcome to fascist Amerika, where your rights are guarantee until you want to enforce them, for that you may need a permission from our dictatorial government.



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


Well let me clear this up REAL quick. This has NOTHING i repeat NOTHING to do with Muslims against Israel. I am not a muslim and i have never been to Israel. I am American and i live in NewYork City.

I just don't understand how my fellow Americans could ever sit on a jury and convict for a "crime" such as this. This is a slap in the face for First Amendment rights!!



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by ProphecyPhD
 


Like the link said, the students were targeted because their religious affiliation, plain and simple, sad and ugly, in America people fight for the wrong reasons not knowing that they are perpetuating the status quo that is now destroying this nation.



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by ProphecyPhD
 


I'll preface this with a quote from General (Retired) Tom Franks that equally applies to me: "I have no Israeli visa in my passport." That said, did the students and certain other participants have a right to infringe on the free speech of the Ambassador?

If I organize an event--that is, if I pay to rent a facility and perhaps provide refreshments and so on to speak on why I think the minimum wage law is bad for the American economy, don't I have a right to express my viewpoints without being interrupted? Is there not some implied constraint of civility and good taste that allows me to present my case and then answer questions germane to the topic at hand?

I get the frustration expressed by Arabs and Palestinians in terms of Israeli policy. It's a growing frustration for the world (i.e. people of the world) toward Israeli foreign policy that is pushing Israel closer and closer to a precipice. My disagreement with your post is that it seems to represent the frustration felt toward Israel at the expense of neglecting the Ambassador's right in this country (America) to speak his viewpoints. So while I side with the Palestinians in their efforts to create a reasonably secure future absent Israeli bombs and bullets, I don't agree that these individuals had a right to infringe on the free speech of the Ambassador. If nothing else I believe free speech must be equally assured for both sides. Heck, I live in Lawrence, Kansas and am not more than ~30 miles from the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas. I also happen to be a combat veteran of three foreign boondoggles. Now and again there is a fallen comrade being buried in the area, and the Westboro Baptist idiots are on their warpath to spew hate at the expense of the fallen comrade's family. I literally hate it when they do that, but in the same breath of this sentence I would hate it just as much if we began to infringe on the rights of others to engage in free speech. I mean free speech is probably not as free as we imagine--that is, there are probably times when we pay a price in terms of what we may feel inside ourselves as the result of free speech. Ultimately, I think that's a price worth paying.

Addendum:
The Westboro Baptist idiots are kept at distance from the funeral site so as not to disrupt the funeral proceeding; nonetheless, they cry foul at a distance, and that is their right.
edit on 25-9-2011 by Kovenov because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-9-2011 by Kovenov because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 02:18 PM
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Isn't it amazing that you suffered the idiocy of the Bush years and thought that things would change under Obama. Do any Americans still think that that it actually matters who is the President?
If anything, things are now worse for freedom and democracy in America than when Bush was in office.

Freedom and liberty only applies to you if you nod and agree, the moment you express an opinion or thought that goes against the grain your rights are no longer guaranteed. If recent events have not proven this I don't know what will.



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 02:19 PM
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How is it that Muslims continually find themselves in this situation.

Shalom aleichem
As-Salamu Alaykum

The whole argument is on which comes first.
Notice above, of the two phrases Hebrew is listed first.
Islam would gain more ground arguing about the two phrases being listed alphabetically instead.

As-Salamu Alaykum: Peace be apon you. Arabic.
Shalom aleichem: Peace be upon you. Hebrew.

And within that purely academic argument about the order of things and grammar, lay the issues at hand.

Islam always seems to be looking for someone to punish instead. Directly, personally, and immediately.

I submit to you that if a college student wanted to say something, they would make a whole campaign, and try to take over the campus in the vox populi. But this blurt-out-obnoxious-sound-quickly followed up by the dissapper-into-the-crowd is just rotten manners. In the case of these particular students I give them a pass on this point, because they actually excused themselves after doing it. Now, THAT, was a class act!


David Grouchy



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by ProphecyPhD
reply to post by marg6043
 


Well let me clear this up REAL quick. This has NOTHING i repeat NOTHING to do with Muslims against Israel. I am not a muslim and i have never been to Israel. I am American and i live in NewYork City.

I just don't understand how my fellow Americans could ever sit on a jury and convict for a "crime" such as this. This is a slap in the face for First Amendment rights!!


The reason why they were convicted, is because it is so close to 9/11 and all they did was look at their skin color and associate it with what happened on 9/11.

Sad if you ask me.


Those kids posed no threat to anyone and shouldn't have been prosecuted or convicted or even failed by their professor.

Just goes to show you the world we live in and how people still react and still place blame.
edit on 25-9-2011 by Manhater because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 02:33 PM
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Well, that's what happens when you criticize the great and powerful Israel. I'm pretty sure our rights as defined by the Constitution only apply to American citizens, not Israeli ambassadors. But, as many of us know, our Constitution really has no meaning anymore. Was what these students did rude? Yes. Was what these students did a violation of law? Absolutely not. And I can completely understand their frustration and am incensed that they we're even tried for a non-crime.



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by ProphecyPhD
 

They were convicted because they disrupted a meeting. There is a law (Cal. Penal Code § 403,) there about that and it had nothing to do with free speech. They showed their butts at that meeting and were arrested, tried and convicted. A pretty good review is here,

TheConstitutional.org



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by Manhater

Originally posted by ProphecyPhD
reply to post by marg6043
 


Well let me clear this up REAL quick. This has NOTHING i repeat NOTHING to do with Muslims against Israel. I am not a muslim and i have never been to Israel. I am American and i live in NewYork City.

I just don't understand how my fellow Americans could ever sit on a jury and convict for a "crime" such as this. This is a slap in the face for First Amendment rights!!


The reason why they were convicted, is because it is so close to 9/11 and all they did was look at their skin color and associate it with what happened on 9/11.

Sad if you ask me.


Those kids posed no threat to anyone and shouldn't have been prosecuted or convicted or even failed by their professor.

Just goes to show you the world we live in and how people still react and still place blame.
edit on 25-9-2011 by Manhater because: (no reason given)


Really? Next time you are invited to give a speech to people who have paid for a room to hear you talk, please let me know.

I am sure I can find some folk to disrupt what ever message you have, regardless of the topic.

Would you be fine with that?


And it was ten years after 9/11.

This was a not a good call on the part of the judicial system. They should have been escorted out and told to stay off the premises under threat of arrest. That way, if they did not comply, it would have been a valid arrest.



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
In America you only have "fee speech" until you enforce it, then you are tagged a terrorist and an insurgent, That is what goes on in the great nation of the free this days.

People still doesn't get it, you will get a lot of negative post because is going to be turn into Muslims against Israel, shame that this is happening to anybody lately regardless of religious affiliations.

Welcome to fascist Amerika, where your rights are guarantee until you want to enforce them, for that you may need a permission from our dictatorial government.


I could almost guarantee that if this incident or similar had occurred at a campus in Los Angeles County, these students never would have been disciplined the way they were at UC Irvine. Events like these take place all the time at UCLA, Cal State Northridge...even up north at San Jose State and Fresno State, all throughout the state etc., and never ever have I heard of students being treated the way these students were.

That's what college students do...they get besides themselves because they are passionate about a subject but the punishment is just too much, a tad bit premature and over the top in my opinion.

Not excusing any misbehaving on the students parts but really?

edit on 9/25/11 by ThePublicEnemyNo1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by Bramble Iceshimmer
 


Now why did you have to go ruin the fun???

You're right, of course. The right to freedom of speech isn't absolute, and like any other right, it can be curbed at the point where it infringes upon the rights of others. If you're disruptive in a college class, for whatever reason, they can have you thrown out and/or arrested depending on how badly you act out. We all know this, so I don't know why people get all apoplectic about a situation such as this. In this case, their disruption infringed upon the speaker's free speech rights, as well as the right to assembly of the rest of the audience. Its pretty straightforward.

Now would I have had them arrested? Probably not. I've seen worse student protests. Suspension or expulsion? Maybe, but again, I've seen worse.



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by Bramble Iceshimmer
reply to post by ProphecyPhD
 

They were convicted because they disrupted a meeting. There is a law (Cal. Penal Code § 403,) there about that and it had nothing to do with free speech. They showed their butts at that meeting and were arrested, tried and convicted. A pretty good review is here,

TheConstitutional.org


Do you really believe it was that simple? Protesting at speeches on college campuses is as American as apple pie.
Protesting period is American!!

Was Congressman Joe Wilson arrested?



I don't see anybody getting arrested in this video either




posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by Bramble Iceshimmer
reply to post by ProphecyPhD
 

They were convicted because they disrupted a meeting. There is a law (Cal. Penal Code § 403,) there about that and it had nothing to do with free speech. They showed their butts at that meeting and were arrested, tried and convicted. A pretty good review is here,

TheConstitutional.org


Holy moly! They interrupted a meeting? Freakin' criminals should have been castrated! The law referenced in your link is wrong. The CA supreme court is wrong for upholding it. It is a violation of their 1st Amendment rights. Period. If you disagree with me, that's fine, you have a right to be wrong, just like WE as American's have a right to free speech. Well, we used to anyway. This case proves the lie. The only freedoms we will ever have again are the ones we take back from those who usurped them.



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 03:11 PM
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Really? Next time you are invited to give a speech to people who have paid for a room to hear you talk, please let me know.

I am sure I can find some folk to disrupt what ever message you have, regardless of the topic.

Would you be fine with that?


And it was ten years after 9/11.


The fact that you even mentioned 9/11 says a lot. What does anything in this thread have to do with 9/11? Oh i get it, the students practice the Muslim faith. Do you realize what you are insinuating? You just immediately thought of 9/11 because you saw some Muslims. These students were all honor students in college and they were all born in the United States.

Who cares what religion they are



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by ProphecyPhD
 


Manhater mentioned 9/11, which I thought was ridiculous as well. I was pointing out the fact that this was not so soon afterwards this happened. It may still be a raw wound on peoplpes psyche, but really has nothing to do with the story overall.

Other than that...don't care what color or religion they are. This happens all the time here in the US...but rarely goes to court.
edit on 25-9-2011 by TDawgRex because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 03:25 PM
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There is a more serious discussion of this identical topic here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

My own opinion? The law is on the books in California, it has never been successfully challenged, there is clear evidence of its violation as well as a conspiracy to violate it.

The arguments "They were only prosecuted because of some deficiency in the prosecutor's head" and "some people in entirely different situations were not prosecuted, so these shouldn't be prosecuted either" need evidence before they should be treated seriously.

But, as I say, go look at the existing thread.



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by Manhater
The reason why they were convicted, is because it is so close to 9/11 and all they did was look at their skin color and associate it with what happened on 9/11.


Originally posted by TDawgRex
And it was ten years after 9/11.


Originally posted by ProphecyPhD
The fact that you even mentioned 9/11 says a lot. What does anything in this thread have to do with 9/11? Oh i get it, the students practice the Muslim faith. Do you realize what you are insinuating? You just immediately thought of 9/11 because you saw some Muslims. These students were all honor students in college and they were all born in the United States.

Order of Operations:
1.Manhater makes the accusation that 9/11 is the cause (probably meant the anniversary).
2. TDawgRex states that it was too long ago for that excuse (10 years ago).
3. ProphecyPhD attacks TDawgRex for instigating something.
4. TDawgRex points out where the blame belongs.
5. ...awaiting reply.

In all honesty, bringing up 9/11 and then getting into a debate over it's role in this situation is fairly irrelevant--even if it is the cause for the conviction.

But then the whole point of our threads are for getting to the bare-boned facts of what happened, and then coming to our personal conclusions based upon these facts. The problem is that we all tend to forget this. lol.

But I'll set the contention that the law that was broken, that they were convicted for ought to be ruled unconstitutional.



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 03:49 PM
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Just thought I'd post the law we're talking about.

403. Every person who, without authority of law, willfully disturbs or breaks up any assembly or meeting that is not unlawful in its character, other than an assembly or meeting referred to in Section 302 of the Penal Code or Section 18340 of the Elections Code, is guilty of a misdemeanor.


Section 302 is a special set of rules for religious gatherings and 18340 is:

18340. Every person who, by threats, intimidations, or unlawful violence, willfully hinders or prevents electors from assembling in public meetings for the consideration of public questions is guilty of a misdemeanor.


You're going to have a time showing that is unconstitutional.

Remember that the offense occured a year ago, and the University found them guilty of violating University rules.




edit on 25-9-2011 by charles1952 because: add a line.



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