RIP Australia 1788-2012

Originally posted by AussiePatriot
Australia as we know it is done for.
Julia Gillard took out Kevin Rudd in a bloodless coup and installed herself with the help of faceless power brokers. All done without any say of the people.
Then came the 'election', and once again installed herself without the true votes of the people as independents and the Greens propped her up.
This government has driven the country into a deficit of over 200 billion dollars on wasted taxpayer funded programs. Compared with just a few years ago when we were in surplus.
Never before has Australia had such an incompetent government, with its WORST primeminister in history.
Gillard is borrowing approx 100 million per day from China when we are supposed to be in a mining boom reaping the profits from China?

At this time there is global uncertainty with debt crises and so on. BUT it gets better, Julia has decided WE need to pay the WORLDS LARGEST CARBON TAX. Why must we pay when China produces most of the pollution?
But wait theres more, there will also be a Mining tax slapped onto the mining giants who produce much of our wealth.
Australia's economy is being compared to other countries that are creating a carbon tax or already have one, most notably New Zealand. Has anyone seen how inflated prices have now become over there? Why do you think so many Kiwis are coming here now?

Just a little food for thought, Julia says she will scrap the flood levy (another tax) sometime next year I think. However, I would just like to point out that no government in the history of Australia has ever taken back a tax what makes you think ##SNIP## will?

If something is not done soon to stop this, Australia WILL collapse by next year. We have the highest house prices in the world, pay more for food than most other western nations, and an increasingly ageing population which will put more strain on already stretched facilities.
It surprises me that we aren't seeing riots about this, or real marches on parliament house. When will the people wake up and realise this government is #ing Australia to death.

edit on Sun Sep 25 2011 by DontTreadOnMe because: MOD EDIT: Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)

You're an industrialist/corporatist fool. Do you SERIOUSLY think anything you've said is accurate??

You think social safety nets are a PROBLEM while taxes on pollutive mega-corporations are out of the question??? YOU'VE GOT YOUR PRIORITIES ALL MIXED UP.

The problem is NOT what you've laid out, the problem is a WORLDWIDE ECONOMIC DOWNTURN spurred by unregulated market gambling on Wall St. The problem is IMBALANCED BUDGETS. You can wage your stupid propaganda war saying "it's all those social programs!!! GRRR!!!" but you're dead-wrong. It's about BALANCING THE BUDGET, which means NOT SPENDING MORE THAN YOU MAKE. Quit being so thick to what's really going on. Carbon taxes aren't gonna bankrupt you... there are FAR LARGER issues, do your homework before you go off on 2-minutes hate of anything environmentally conscious.

reply to post by Pirateofpsychonautics


I couldn't agree more mate. I would just like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread discussion and I am trying to answer as many people as I can.

For me this carbon tax being introduced is proof of how criminal this government is.

We have some very ingenious people here who have come up with alternative energy sources just to paid off and there idea shelved, then they turn around and want to tax us for polluting the environment!

I understand the term mismanagement but this is organized crime against humanity!!

Our oppressors will stop at nothing and have been influencing our behavior for a long time which is why nothing is ever done about these injustices.

Something will eventually give as people can only have their mind and anus probed for so long without consequences, but when it does they will have a reason to murder us in cold blood and give those who remain and even better reason to live in fear.

S&F

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


Hello, firstly I knew that we didn't elect our primeminister directly that is done by the parties. However, going into an election we usually know who will become the leader, the first time we didn't know with Julia, and the second time was because the greens and independents propped her up to form government.
Secondly, this government is collapsing Australia by selling off all our resources.
Thirdly, while I agree taxing mining giants is a good idea ie. higher prices equals more wealth. Also realise this is our last industry we have left since most of our farms are now sold (mostly to China)
Fourth, I agree with your claim on the carbon tax and I think the best Australia can do for the future is become an energy superpower (we have plenty of sun)
Fifth, I don't live in Melbourne so I don't know the situation down there but in Queensland its in full blown recession especially on the Gold Coast. Also the housing market is only being propped up by high intake of immigration which creates demand.

reply to post by Milleresque


No I've said this before and I'll say it again. I hate both the major parties and have never voted for either of them. I realised that most if not all politicians are the same.

reply to post by AussiePatriot


exactly mate

head out past Toowoomba and see the lush green farmland that is being ripped up to make - you will never guess - COAL MINES

you cant eat coal

the present Labour govt in QLD and federal are selling our food bowls to miners all over the country - and they call for a carbon tax to save the environment?

WTF?

they are raping our environment

not to mention all the coal seam gas exploration licences they have granted under farmland all over this nation

they should be tried and executed for the traitors they are!

reply to post by VI0811


Hi there, what is it that you want a document of ?

reply to post by NoHierarchy


You are from the US so let me explain something to you, those 'mega corporations' are what keep Australia afloat since our government is too lazy to build a railway and mine it for themselves.
The truth is economic downturn for the world means jack for Australia since most of our resources are sent to China and India. What does this all mean? The carbon tax might not affect your country that badly but Australia is based on something that this tax will destroy.

reply to post by Anusuia


Hi there, I hope this is what you were looking for:
The first is the Governments report on Holts disappearance:
naa12.naa.gov.au...
The Second is a useful site that you may find interesting:
www.harold-holt.net...

Originally posted by AussiePatriot
reply to post by SpeachM1litant

 

Hello, firstly I knew that we didn't elect our primeminister directly that is done by the parties. However, going into an election we usually know who will become the leader, the first time we didn't know with Julia, and the second time was because the greens and independents propped her up to form government.
Secondly, this government is collapsing Australia by selling off all our resources.
Thirdly, while I agree taxing mining giants is a good idea ie. higher prices equals more wealth. Also realise this is our last industry we have left since most of our farms are now sold (mostly to China)
Fourth, I agree with your claim on the carbon tax and I think the best Australia can do for the future is become an energy superpower (we have plenty of sun)
Fifth, I don't live in Melbourne so I don't know the situation down there but in Queensland its in full blown recession especially on the Gold Coast. Also the housing market is only being propped up by high intake of immigration which creates demand.

Not sure what your point is regarding a coalition between greens and labor, like nationals and liberals, however coalitions and cooperation between parties us what makes a democracy better, having to rely on a super majority is worse for democratic values - hope you can understand that.
Australia is not collapsing because we are selling resources, we are actually booming because we sell our resources, we always have been a primary producer.
Most of our farms are not sold to China - incredibly ridiculous thing to say.

Originally posted by rainychica
reply to post by xxdaniel21

 

sorry, I meant to reply to your post

I think the funniest thing I ever witness while I was down in Australia about a dozen years ago, is that when they had a referendum to "stay with the crown, under the queen" or detach from it, the majority voted for the Queen. I don't get it, even today, I just don't get it. Can someone explain (who's a native of Australia)?

Please could a moderator delete the other one, sorry for the trouble, thanks

When we got to vote, as usual we were only given 2 choices: Stay with the Monarchy, or switch to a system exactly like America's. I think a lot of people (at least I did) wanted to split off from the Monarchy but we don't want to be like the US either.

If we actually ever got a real choice in anything, we'd be a lot better off.

The real problem is that we rely too much on imports, which have high tax. And why? Because if we buy Australian grown produce, we not only have to spend more due to the fact that the farmers are all broke and need money to live, but the government sees putting high taxes on Australian grown goods is somehow a good thing. That means, if I live next door to an Australian farm, it would be cheaper to go down the street to a supermarket and buy my produce than it is to get it off the guy next door.

"Well, you get what you pay for" you may be thinking. And I would agree with you, if it wasn't for the extremely high cost of everything else in Australia. Petrol, food, power - hell, we still pay the highest price for internet in the world despite having an average speed of something that resembles dial-up from 1994.

I've mentioned my ideas in other threads in the past and will touch base on them again here for others to disect/criticize/comment on. ( I am by no means a financial analyst of any sort so do not take my comments as gospel).

In my views, and my views only, the main problem with our system of government and economy is the extreme globalist slant that Western nations have in these modern times.

I beleive the greatest economist in the modern era is by far Adolf Hitler and for one simple economic policy of his - if it had to be imported into Germany, sponsor local companies to build it in Germany and tax the imports.

TARRIFS
The biggest killer of the economy is reducing the tarrifs and the so called "Level playing field" which past governments have preached that other nations do not follow but for some reason Australia is the guppy for it. Tarrif reductions have killed many industries in the past 1.5 decades.

To put my Adolf analogy into a modern perspective and in reference to Australia.....if we need to import anything from China, we raise the import tarrif on it, and cut the business tax significantly on any local companies wishing to produce the same products here at the same or better prices.

The benefit of this is -
1) it would greatly increase employment
2) the government would make more money through more workers working and paying taxes
3) it benefits local industry and second and third tier companies that supply the major manufacturing ones,
hence even more jobs and even more tax payers.
4) Australian made products for Australians.
5) THE MONEY STAYS IN AUSTRALIA

Yes, this is an Isolationist type of policy, but in a very short period of time, Adolf brought all the seperate provinces of Germania and built a country and economy that was a world superpower of its time. There is no reason why Australia cannot be just as strong.

TAXES
Australians are one of the most highly taxed citizens of the world. But it need not be this way and both the people and government can benefit from some changes.

We have everything going for us except politicians and governments with any balls.

Countries like Saudi Arabia that get the vast majority of their income from oil exports....how much tax do their citizens pay? Bugger All, thats how much.

Australia is in a similar situation in regards to mining....(im not here or there on the mining tax), but if this mining tax does go through, shouldnt the citizens and workers of this country be the first to benefit from it not the government?

Think about it, reduce the over taxed rates on citizens - means theres more money to spend which in turn means more GST revenue for the government. Government wins, people win.

Income Tax

Income Tax needs to be changed....we all know that....there should be incentives for you to work more, not as it currently stands where the more hours you work the higher tax rate you pay. Where the "F" is the incentive in that. The more hours you work the less tax you should have to pay. This would give people more incentive to work, and hopefully get some of those sitting at home on the dole off their backsides and working too. The more in the citizens pockets means more money to spend and more tax revenue. Government Wins, People Win.

Family Tax

Family tax is buggered, for those that have families and understand the cost of living pressures. If there is one income earner in the family.....the more kids that you have, the less income tax you should pay! For example, if you pay 30% tax, and you have 3 kids, then say 5% less tax per child, you'd be paying 15% tax.

This will increase the population of Australia and immigration rates would reduce in tern. This also increases the number of future tax payers for the government so its a long term view but in 20 years time the government of the day would be reaping the rewards. Whilst in the meantime a family will be able to survive on one income earner like the good ol days of the 50's and 60's.



continued next post-->

Infrastructure

We need governments with a proactive view to whats best for Australia and not a reactive view and do things when things go wrong or make decisions as we have all seen just to stay in power.

I'm all for a government being in debt if it is all accountered for and the people can see the benefits of what has been done....take it to a referendum if need be.

Dam the major rivers in the North of Australia and irrigate the interior of the country. This will increase vastly the area of land thats able to be farmed and we can either export it or safeguard our own food resources here.

We need an eastcoast fast rail link.

We need cheap, clean and abundant power......Thorium Reactors are by far the best option that nobody wants to consider as all.


There is so much that Australia can do and become with its small population. We could literally be leading the world in every facet of life if only we had the type of leadership with intelligence and fore-thought that this great nation deserves.

Very sorry for the long post, but wanted to throw some different ideas up for the local Aussie ATS'ers to ponder.

Originally posted by lkpuedei don't feel sorry for them. i don't feel sorry for us, either. that, as usual, is the fault of the people. when they get tired of that, they'll do something about it. Egypt stayed under the boot of dictatorship till the people got tired of it. Libya stayed under the bood of dictatorship until the people got tired of it. in my country, people will continue to put up with the horseshypt of the politicians, and as near as i can tell, aren't quite tired of it yet.

Might wanna do some more research on Libya and Egypt - I don't think all of that went down like we were told it did.

It's the same playbook being used with the US. It's intentional. Can't have a one-world dictatorship without first collapsing economies and taking everything away from the people, then offering up a "new way" of doing things. When people have nothing, they will gladly accept anything that is offered to them.

Except in the US - boy do they have another thing coming.

Originally posted by Cecilofs

Originally posted by lkpuedei don't feel sorry for them. i don't feel sorry for us, either. that, as usual, is the fault of the people. when they get tired of that, they'll do something about it. Egypt stayed under the boot of dictatorship till the people got tired of it. Libya stayed under the bood of dictatorship until the people got tired of it. in my country, people will continue to put up with the horseshypt of the politicians, and as near as i can tell, aren't quite tired of it yet.

Might wanna do some more research on Libya and Egypt - I don't think all of that went down like we were told it did.

Isn't it interesting how Libya disappeared from the news as soon as the MSM declared a winner? It was just like a TV show. "This Friday on NBC, It's the war in Libya, followed by..." whatever show they have lined up next.

The whole world has got a globalization problem.

I was talking to a nice lady recently, who I had no idea up until the other night, was an important facilitator of investment contacts between my country, Canada, and a very powerful nation that I won't name, to protect her identity. This person was lamenting the situation with regard to corruption at the top in government and business.

She said that it was hard to "contain" economic problems in Europe, for example because of the european currency regime. A country like Greece for example, infects the other nations of Europe with its fiscal problems.

There are few ways of insulating any given national economy from coming down with the illnesses suffered by other economies. Globalism has interlocked economies as never before.

This is a huge problem because, as the past couple of years have shown us, even the largest national economy in the world has become subject to incredible problems caused by cavalier negligence at the top in regulatory and other matters, coupled with reckless speculative hooliganism among institutional (!!!) investors. What has been happening in the US is hard to believe.

It is symptomatic of one of the most serious social trends in history, the erosion of values of the upper class and the upwardly mobile. They have lost all sense of perspective in material matters. They are after filthy lucre and will have it at any cost, including the cannibalization of their own economies and societies.

The middle class, as a social and economic entity, with all the stabilizing social values it embodies, is being literally devoured by the upwardly mobile, trying to acquire wealth at any cost and the upper class trying to maintain wealth at any cost.

This is happening around the world. The main engine of this social wrecking ball is globalism. I have no doubt that the root of Australia's problems can be traced to that.

I have a question though. Where does the money that Australia collects in carbon tax go? Is the money paid to some outside institution or is it reinvested in Australia somehow?

Originally posted by NoHierarchyYou're an industrialist/corporatist fool. Do you SERIOUSLY think anything you've said is accurate??

You think social safety nets are a PROBLEM while taxes on pollutive mega-corporations are out of the question??? YOU'VE GOT YOUR PRIORITIES ALL MIXED UP.

The problem is NOT what you've laid out, the problem is a WORLDWIDE ECONOMIC DOWNTURN spurred by unregulated market gambling on Wall St. The problem is IMBALANCED BUDGETS. You can wage your stupid propaganda war saying "it's all those social programs!!! GRRR!!!" but you're dead-wrong. It's about BALANCING THE BUDGET, which means NOT SPENDING MORE THAN YOU MAKE. Quit being so thick to what's really going on. Carbon taxes aren't gonna bankrupt you... there are FAR LARGER issues, do your homework before you go off on 2-minutes hate of anything environmentally conscious.

Not sure where you've been hiding, but in this financial system (i.e. central banking and fiat currencies) you can't balance the budget - you'll always be in debt. That's kinda the point.

reply to post by Melbourne_Militia


Some bloody excellent points in there mate.

The only problem I see arising is- China is our biggest mining/primary industries consumer and we import a lot from them, if we put a tax on their imports in to Australia they'll turn around and start taxing us on everything we ship to China.

The East Coast Fast Rail- brilliant idea! Think of the weekend and long weekend holidays that could be had! It would all depend on the price of tickets in comparison to flying because these days it costs the price of dining out to fly to Brisbane on a return ticket.

The taxation schemes identified- I agree again, excellent idea.

We could be a world leading nation if not for the d***heads on the top rungs.

Originally posted by Pervius
Things in Australia are cheap.

I was looking for Toyota truck parts and found a website in Australia selling parts for 1/5th of what they cost in America.

You cheap blokes can still buy those old fashioned refrigerators that only need kerosene and light a little flame in the bottom to cool your stuff.

Australia's bought more of those Buell motorcycles than anyone else in the world. You've been living pretty high on the hog. You all live in homes.

But Nostradamus predicted Australia would die.

The MABUS quatrain. MABUS is the 3rd anti-christ.

-Mexico
-Australia
-Britain
-US

Supposedly when this comet passes Earth, MABUS is dead. Then WWIII starts.

trippy idea;. does happen to align with a dream I had about a comet wrecking up my backyard.
Guess we'll wait and see.

Think i'll look into those refrigerators you mentioned too, I haven't heard of those before and they sound handy.

-Bob