RIP Australia 1788-2012

Originally posted by Gravity215

Originally posted by JamesGC
I understand that a politician lies as soon as they open their mouths, but God Damn!

Really, REALLY not looking forward for voting again.

Which stupid evil do i want doing nothing for the next 4 years!

Here she is, who would want this job. The need for power must be alot greater than the need to look like a human being in front of the entire country.

Totally psychopathic!

She is. I say that if I was to sleep with her ( Which I wouldn't if I could) I'd be sure to check for an ice pick under the pillow

God, i HATE how she's always like, well i think what you meant with the question was.....

If i ever wanted to get 5 minutes of fame, and prison time, it would be because i'd like to walk up to her and give her one giant slap in front of the cameras.

Originally posted by JamesGC
God, i HATE how she's always like, well i think what you meant with the question was.....

If i ever wanted to get 5 minutes of fame, and prison time, it would be because i'd like to walk up to her and give her one giant slap in front of the cameras.

Public opinion might save you I can't stand how she repeats herself like " Australia needs a carbon tax. Australia needs a carbon tax because clean energy is the future. Clean energy is the future because...."

You could write a play about Gillard and Abbott which would be the following

"Yes we can"

"No you can't"

Repeat until credits role 4 years later.

Originally posted by AussiePatriot
reply to post by NoHierarchy

 

You are from the US so let me explain something to you, those 'mega corporations' are what keep Australia afloat since our government is too lazy to build a railway and mine it for themselves.
The truth is economic downturn for the world means jack for Australia since most of our resources are sent to China and India. What does this all mean? The carbon tax might not affect your country that badly but Australia is based on something that this tax will destroy.

edit on 25-9-2011 by AussiePatriot because: (no reason given)

PROVE it.

Originally posted by Cecilofs

Originally posted by NoHierarchyYou're an industrialist/corporatist fool. Do you SERIOUSLY think anything you've said is accurate??

You think social safety nets are a PROBLEM while taxes on pollutive mega-corporations are out of the question??? YOU'VE GOT YOUR PRIORITIES ALL MIXED UP.

The problem is NOT what you've laid out, the problem is a WORLDWIDE ECONOMIC DOWNTURN spurred by unregulated market gambling on Wall St. The problem is IMBALANCED BUDGETS. You can wage your stupid propaganda war saying "it's all those social programs!!! GRRR!!!" but you're dead-wrong. It's about BALANCING THE BUDGET, which means NOT SPENDING MORE THAN YOU MAKE. Quit being so thick to what's really going on. Carbon taxes aren't gonna bankrupt you... there are FAR LARGER issues, do your homework before you go off on 2-minutes hate of anything environmentally conscious.

Not sure where you've been hiding, but in this financial system (i.e. central banking and fiat currencies) you can't balance the budget - you'll always be in debt. That's kinda the point.

I'm talking about budget deficits versus surpluses. NOT debts. Every government is entangled in webs of debt. However, being solvent, if I am correct, is being able to pay the debt interest consistently... this economic downturn (caused by Wall St. shenanigans) has essentially destabilized the entire global economy, which impacts governments' abilities to pay the interest on debts. Also... a carbon tax has NOTHING to do with the whole mess and I highly doubt, even in Australia, that it will make much difference either way. And OF ALL THINGS WHY PICK ON A CARBON TAX?? Doesn't that REEK of corporate cherry-picking?? It's okay when major corporations f*ck the entire system up and PROFIT, but ohhh no! When the government wants to tax them a little bit more it's THE END OF THE WORLD!

NEWS FLASH: Other countries have implemented carbon taxes WITHOUT destroying their economies, WITHOUT implementing tyranny, and WITHOUT taxing "the air we breathe". The only people who should be afraid of carbon taxes are from the fossil fuel industry... and NOBODY should give a flying-capital-F about them.

Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by NoHierarchy

Originally posted by AussiePatriot
Australia as we know it is done for.
Julia Gillard took out Kevin Rudd in a bloodless coup and installed herself with the help of faceless power brokers. All done without any say of the people.
Then came the 'election', and once again installed herself without the true votes of the people as independents and the Greens propped her up.
This government has driven the country into a deficit of over 200 billion dollars on wasted taxpayer funded programs. Compared with just a few years ago when we were in surplus.
Never before has Australia had such an incompetent government, with its WORST primeminister in history.
Gillard is borrowing approx 100 million per day from China when we are supposed to be in a mining boom reaping the profits from China?

At this time there is global uncertainty with debt crises and so on. BUT it gets better, Julia has decided WE need to pay the WORLDS LARGEST CARBON TAX. Why must we pay when China produces most of the pollution?
But wait theres more, there will also be a Mining tax slapped onto the mining giants who produce much of our wealth.
Australia's economy is being compared to other countries that are creating a carbon tax or already have one, most notably New Zealand. Has anyone seen how inflated prices have now become over there? Why do you think so many Kiwis are coming here now?

Just a little food for thought, Julia says she will scrap the flood levy (another tax) sometime next year I think. However, I would just like to point out that no government in the history of Australia has ever taken back a tax what makes you think ##SNIP## will?

If something is not done soon to stop this, Australia WILL collapse by next year. We have the highest house prices in the world, pay more for food than most other western nations, and an increasingly ageing population which will put more strain on already stretched facilities.
It surprises me that we aren't seeing riots about this, or real marches on parliament house. When will the people wake up and realise this government is #ing Australia to death.

edit on Sun Sep 25 2011 by DontTreadOnMe because: MOD EDIT: Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)

You're an industrialist/corporatist fool. Do you SERIOUSLY think anything you've said is accurate??

You think social safety nets are a PROBLEM while taxes on pollutive mega-corporations are out of the question??? YOU'VE GOT YOUR PRIORITIES ALL MIXED UP.

The problem is NOT what you've laid out, the problem is a WORLDWIDE ECONOMIC DOWNTURN spurred by unregulated market gambling on Wall St. The problem is IMBALANCED BUDGETS. You can wage your stupid propaganda war saying "it's all those social programs!!! GRRR!!!" but you're dead-wrong. It's about BALANCING THE BUDGET, which means NOT SPENDING MORE THAN YOU MAKE. Quit being so thick to what's really going on. Carbon taxes aren't gonna bankrupt you... there are FAR LARGER issues, do your homework before you go off on 2-minutes hate of anything environmentally conscious.

You do your homework. The economic down turn which destroyed your economy and left thousands homeless in the U.S registered as no more than a itch to scratch for the average Aussie. The dynamics of our country a far different to yours but you'll mouth off like that all western countries are a carbon copy of the U.S and it's tools such as yourself which is the cause of the the worlds perception that Americans are ignorent and uneducated which isn't the case but people like you make it appear that way with your unresearched mouth shoot.

edit on 26-9-2011 by steveknows because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-9-2011 by steveknows because: (no reason given)

Right right, keep telling yourself that. Your government is completely insulated... removed from the global economy. Then keep telling yourself that carbon taxes will doom your economy and not the ACTUAL causes of collapse.

Originally posted by NoHierarchy

Originally posted by Cecilofs

Originally posted by NoHierarchyYou're an industrialist/corporatist fool. Do you SERIOUSLY think anything you've said is accurate??

You think social safety nets are a PROBLEM while taxes on pollutive mega-corporations are out of the question??? YOU'VE GOT YOUR PRIORITIES ALL MIXED UP.

The problem is NOT what you've laid out, the problem is a WORLDWIDE ECONOMIC DOWNTURN spurred by unregulated market gambling on Wall St. The problem is IMBALANCED BUDGETS. You can wage your stupid propaganda war saying "it's all those social programs!!! GRRR!!!" but you're dead-wrong. It's about BALANCING THE BUDGET, which means NOT SPENDING MORE THAN YOU MAKE. Quit being so thick to what's really going on. Carbon taxes aren't gonna bankrupt you... there are FAR LARGER issues, do your homework before you go off on 2-minutes hate of anything environmentally conscious.

Not sure where you've been hiding, but in this financial system (i.e. central banking and fiat currencies) you can't balance the budget - you'll always be in debt. That's kinda the point.

I'm talking about budget deficits versus surpluses. NOT debts. Every government is entangled in webs of debt. However, being solvent, if I am correct, is being able to pay the debt interest consistently... this economic downturn (caused by Wall St. shenanigans) has essentially destabilized the entire global economy, which impacts governments' abilities to pay the interest on debts. Also... a carbon tax has NOTHING to do with the whole mess and I highly doubt, even in Australia, that it will make much difference either way. And OF ALL THINGS WHY PICK ON A CARBON TAX?? Doesn't that REEK of corporate cherry-picking?? It's okay when major corporations f*ck the entire system up and PROFIT, but ohhh no! When the government wants to tax them a little bit more it's THE END OF THE WORLD!

NEWS FLASH: Other countries have implemented carbon taxes WITHOUT destroying their economies, WITHOUT implementing tyranny, and WITHOUT taxing "the air we breathe". The only people who should be afraid of carbon taxes are from the fossil fuel industry... and NOBODY should give a flying-capital-F about them.

Australia has a population of 20 million people. Go research the carbon tax ratio of the other countries to their population and research the carbon output of those countries to Australias 1.5% and then please explain why we have to pay THE WORLDS LARGEST CARBON TAX .

Originally posted by NoHierarchy

Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by NoHierarchy

Originally posted by AussiePatriot
Australia as we know it is done for.
Julia Gillard took out Kevin Rudd in a bloodless coup and installed herself with the help of faceless power brokers. All done without any say of the people.
Then came the 'election', and once again installed herself without the true votes of the people as independents and the Greens propped her up.
This government has driven the country into a deficit of over 200 billion dollars on wasted taxpayer funded programs. Compared with just a few years ago when we were in surplus.
Never before has Australia had such an incompetent government, with its WORST primeminister in history.
Gillard is borrowing approx 100 million per day from China when we are supposed to be in a mining boom reaping the profits from China?

At this time there is global uncertainty with debt crises and so on. BUT it gets better, Julia has decided WE need to pay the WORLDS LARGEST CARBON TAX. Why must we pay when China produces most of the pollution?
But wait theres more, there will also be a Mining tax slapped onto the mining giants who produce much of our wealth.
Australia's economy is being compared to other countries that are creating a carbon tax or already have one, most notably New Zealand. Has anyone seen how inflated prices have now become over there? Why do you think so many Kiwis are coming here now?

Just a little food for thought, Julia says she will scrap the flood levy (another tax) sometime next year I think. However, I would just like to point out that no government in the history of Australia has ever taken back a tax what makes you think ##SNIP## will?

If something is not done soon to stop this, Australia WILL collapse by next year. We have the highest house prices in the world, pay more for food than most other western nations, and an increasingly ageing population which will put more strain on already stretched facilities.
It surprises me that we aren't seeing riots about this, or real marches on parliament house. When will the people wake up and realise this government is #ing Australia to death.

edit on Sun Sep 25 2011 by DontTreadOnMe because: MOD EDIT: Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)

You're an industrialist/corporatist fool. Do you SERIOUSLY think anything you've said is accurate??

You think social safety nets are a PROBLEM while taxes on pollutive mega-corporations are out of the question??? YOU'VE GOT YOUR PRIORITIES ALL MIXED UP.

The problem is NOT what you've laid out, the problem is a WORLDWIDE ECONOMIC DOWNTURN spurred by unregulated market gambling on Wall St. The problem is IMBALANCED BUDGETS. You can wage your stupid propaganda war saying "it's all those social programs!!! GRRR!!!" but you're dead-wrong. It's about BALANCING THE BUDGET, which means NOT SPENDING MORE THAN YOU MAKE. Quit being so thick to what's really going on. Carbon taxes aren't gonna bankrupt you... there are FAR LARGER issues, do your homework before you go off on 2-minutes hate of anything environmentally conscious.

You do your homework. The economic down turn which destroyed your economy and left thousands homeless in the U.S registered as no more than a itch to scratch for the average Aussie. The dynamics of our country a far different to yours but you'll mouth off like that all western countries are a carbon copy of the U.S and it's tools such as yourself which is the cause of the the worlds perception that Americans are ignorent and uneducated which isn't the case but people like you make it appear that way with your unresearched mouth shoot.

edit on 26-9-2011 by steveknows because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-9-2011 by steveknows because: (no reason given)

Right right, keep telling yourself that. Your government is completely insulated... removed from the global economy. Then keep telling yourself that carbon taxes will doom your economy and not the ACTUAL causes of collapse.

Hey don't take my word for it google it. We always ride on top of the wave that drowns you. Also tha carbon tax and the GEM are seperate. This issue with the carbon tax isn't about the world being broke, which we're not, it's about an unfare tax being put on the Aussie tax payer and it's reflective of this governments approach to its own people.

reply to post by steveknows


I agree I dislike Julia and the current Labour government, but no more than I do the Liberal party. First of all to adress the 'goodies' left by the liberal, the budget deficit and our treasurers award.

The budget surplus that remained after the liberal government is due to good economical policy. The general rule of thumb is when times are good, you cut outlays (i.e welfare) and raise revenues (i.e taxes). The Liberal government left power when times were good and the global economy was stable. The Labour government picked up off where they left during the Global Financial Crisis (GFC). Another general rule of thumb is that during recession it is ok to run a budget deficit in order to prop up the economy. The Labour government followed the general rule during a recession which is increase outlays (welfare automatically increases without government intervention due to unemployment but the government can increase spending on health, education, infastructure, offer construction stimulus and so forth) and decrease revenues in order to encourage consumer spending and private investment. To an economist the government budget defecit is justified and should return to surplus (13 Billion) if external (overseas) economic conditions do not deteriorate. Our Labour government cant be blamed for the GFC and external economic conditions as they do not run the US economy and the Eurozone.

Wane Swan won the award due to his stringent economic policy that helped steer Australia out of recession (thank the mining industry too). The opposition critisized the awards saying that a Pakistani, Bulgarian and Serbian also won the award. There is a reason these people won the award even though there economies are all generally developing and not up to our standards. The Pakistani who won the awards initiated economic reform which kept Pakistan from the brink of collapse, the Serbian (I am from this area) did the same even though the Serbian economy is rather terrible (many Western European countries have rellocated their manafacturing their due to cheap labour and it is cheaper to transport from Serbia to say Germany then from China to Germany).

It's been a shady disfunctional government from the start with it's infighting and back stabbing of each other and I believe that there is no one at the helm right now because they're brawling on the bridge.

Frankly I agree. I don't like the Labour government in power now and it will be there fault when they lose power. They lack leadership, one thing that Kevin could provide. I am hoping though that if Liberals win we could see Kevin retain the foreign minister portfolio. He is definetely doing a great job, he is very well versed in diplomacy and is an articulate representation of Australia.

Originally posted by SpeachM1litant
reply to post by AussiePatriot

 

OK what do you suggest the government do with the resources. They do not have the capabilities to mine them and sell them. They lease them to mining companies in order to do so. If we were leaving them there lying idle you would be complayning about that. We would be in the same position if not worse were it not for our resource exports.

Please the mining giants wont pack up shop and leave. That is simply rhetoric designed to scare us in order to make it more profitable for them and to get less out of the deal for us (i.e. more tax revenue and free ports/infastructure). They are making billions and will continue to do so. No one is packing up shop.

Third, about the carbon tax- If the government was serious about the environment then they would subsidise clean energy technology and give bonuses to companies that went green. A tax like this is not necessary when all the power companies will do is pass the higher cost onto the consumer.

Sounds like a good idea. No wonder the government subsidises solar and wind energy.

From 2008-2009 we cut immigration 14%. Around 150,000 come, not 200,000. Of these around 130,000 are skilled migrants many being settled in rural areas where they are needed as labour. We need the skills in order to continue to propser as levels of natively born Australians especially with the required skills are lacking. Cut immigration and we wont have a sufficient labour force nor will we have enough younger people to support the ageing population.

You complain about the agein population (which somehow you blame this government for- I guess you think they should be enforcing mandatory ethuenasia) then you complain when we increase the proportion of skilled migrants in the labour force (i.e from 15-65 years old, largely in the lower employable tiers). I have the feeling that whatever the government does is wrong to you.

Yes I agree the Carbon Tax requires amendments on a massive scale and it needs to be initiated in a more timely period. I agree this government is the laughing stock of the country and many of their policies are a joke. Yet my criticism are well founded yours are simply liberal rhetoic.

Also I never said it was the governments fault for the Queensland floods even though they decided to build homes on flood plains, and somehow forgot to warn people of the inland tsunami.

Sweet, that is a state not a federal decision.

Jee, you just don't know when to quit do you?
I have no problem with the corporations mining this country, but hey let's not overdo it. The only type of corporations that should be banned from mining in Australia are foreign government owned mining giants particularly those belonging to China.
The mining giants won't pack up and leave? WOW you are thick headed aren't you. There are so many places where our customers could get minerals for cheaper than Oz and places that are closer too like Siberia for example.

I don't know what planet your on but the government is actually cutting back on subsidising clean energy you fool which is why I made that statement.

The reason we cut immigration was due to the GFC in 08-09, and by the way cutting 50,000 isn't much. Australia should be looking at ways we can accompany more people by increasing our food bowls, creating new sources of water etc. Before sending more people to the already overcrowded cities on the eastern coast.

I don't know where you got me complaining about ageing population. I also didn't blame the government for it either, now your just putting words in my mouth. The job industry should stop exploiting so many illegals here and give seniors a chance to return to the workforce.

I don't agree that this carbon tax needs ammendments, I think it should just be scrapped altogether. It is just another revenue raising scheme.

As for the Queensland floods, it may be a state decision but their 'state mistake' has cost the whole nation another tax called the flood levy. Go figure.

reply to post by JamesGC


Have you also noticed that she constantly reaffirms her position as PM.
For example, "As primeminister of this country".
The only reason she would do this is if she felt like her authority and recognition as PM was fading.

reply to post by Petrov62


Government sold off the rights for mining not the individuals, as I understand it. There are small holders who mine, but most mining rights now belong to huge overseas mining company's and almost all of the profits disappear with them. I have never agreed with the policy of selling off anything to an overseas company, especially our mineral wealth. Once it's gone we certainly won't be here when it finally is created again! And do you expect the mining company's to hang around and say 'hey we'll help you out even tho you now have nothing left in the bag that we wont' !!
I think not. They'll be gone quicker than a rat up a drain pipe and we'll be left with an empty hole

Originally posted by AussiePatriot

Originally posted by SpeachM1litant
reply to post by AussiePatriot

 

OK what do you suggest the government do with the resources. They do not have the capabilities to mine them and sell them. They lease them to mining companies in order to do so. If we were leaving them there lying idle you would be complayning about that. We would be in the same position if not worse were it not for our resource exports.

Please the mining giants wont pack up shop and leave. That is simply rhetoric designed to scare us in order to make it more profitable for them and to get less out of the deal for us (i.e. more tax revenue and free ports/infastructure). They are making billions and will continue to do so. No one is packing up shop.

Third, about the carbon tax- If the government was serious about the environment then they would subsidise clean energy technology and give bonuses to companies that went green. A tax like this is not necessary when all the power companies will do is pass the higher cost onto the consumer.

Sounds like a good idea. No wonder the government subsidises solar and wind energy.

From 2008-2009 we cut immigration 14%. Around 150,000 come, not 200,000. Of these around 130,000 are skilled migrants many being settled in rural areas where they are needed as labour. We need the skills in order to continue to propser as levels of natively born Australians especially with the required skills are lacking. Cut immigration and we wont have a sufficient labour force nor will we have enough younger people to support the ageing population.

You complain about the agein population (which somehow you blame this government for- I guess you think they should be enforcing mandatory ethuenasia) then you complain when we increase the proportion of skilled migrants in the labour force (i.e from 15-65 years old, largely in the lower employable tiers). I have the feeling that whatever the government does is wrong to you.

Yes I agree the Carbon Tax requires amendments on a massive scale and it needs to be initiated in a more timely period. I agree this government is the laughing stock of the country and many of their policies are a joke. Yet my criticism are well founded yours are simply liberal rhetoic.

Also I never said it was the governments fault for the Queensland floods even though they decided to build homes on flood plains, and somehow forgot to warn people of the inland tsunami.

Sweet, that is a state not a federal decision.

Jee, you just don't know when to quit do you?
I have no problem with the corporations mining this country, but hey let's not overdo it. The only type of corporations that should be banned from mining in Australia are foreign government owned mining giants particularly those belonging to China.
The mining giants won't pack up and leave? WOW you are thick headed aren't you. There are so many places where our customers could get minerals for cheaper than Oz and places that are closer too like Siberia for example.

I don't know what planet your on but the government is actually cutting back on subsidising clean energy you fool which is why I made that statement.

The reason we cut immigration was due to the GFC in 08-09, and by the way cutting 50,000 isn't much. Australia should be looking at ways we can accompany more people by increasing our food bowls, creating new sources of water etc. Before sending more people to the already overcrowded cities on the eastern coast.

I don't know where you got me complaining about ageing population. I also didn't blame the government for it either, now your just putting words in my mouth. The job industry should stop exploiting so many illegals here and give seniors a chance to return to the workforce.

I don't agree that this carbon tax needs ammendments, I think it should just be scrapped altogether. It is just another revenue raising scheme.

As for the Queensland floods, it may be a state decision but their 'state mistake' has cost the whole nation another tax called the flood levy. Go figure.

That's right. Gillard scrapped funding for clean energy research and decided to slug us with a carbon tax instead but she's doing it as part of her deals with the Greens, remember labor was originaly against it until they needed the Greens support after the last election.

Also you're right about banning foreign government owned mining. That episode not long ago when China tried to take over Rio Tinto I think it was and the government stopped it. Within a matter of weeks the Chinese government had raided Rio tinto offices in china and arrested two high ups for "spying". Think of all the sensitive information the Chinese government got of Australian minning operations when they took computers for "evidence".

reply to post by steveknows


Let me tell you about clean energy......

do you know the costs of creating and running it? It's not financially fesiable!

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by steveknows

 

Let me tell you about clean energy......

do you know the costs of creating and running it? It's not financially fesiable!

Hence the need for research. of which she cancelled the funding.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


Why is it there are people that believe Kevin can lead?
He can't lead, that is the one of the reasons (amongst others) that he lost his leadership in the first place.
I couldn't even understand what the hell he was on about half the time.

Trying to use slang which made no sense in an effort to try and identify with the public.

"Fair shake of the sauce bottle mate, if you were to compare what this government has done in terms of the promotion of women of talent and ability compared with our predecessors, it's chalk and cheese ... fair shake of the sauce bottle mate," he said.

who the hell says that? how many of you cringed when he used that?
why couldn't he have just said "fair go" or 'you're joking right' or worst case, said it correctly 'fair suck of the sav'.
He was trying to seem and sound more Aussie than he is actually is and for what gain i don't know.
It's as if he was trying to show off.

Don't get me wrong, i love my slang, but i hate hearing it when it's just wrong.

Originally posted by convinceme
reply to post by SpeachM1litant

 

Why is it there are people that believe Kevin can lead?
He can't lead, that is the one of the reasons (amongst others) that he lost his leadership in the first place.
I couldn't even understand what the hell he was on about half the time.

Trying to use slang which made no sense in an effort to try and identify with the public.

"Fair shake of the sauce bottle mate, if you were to compare what this government has done in terms of the promotion of women of talent and ability compared with our predecessors, it's chalk and cheese ... fair shake of the sauce bottle mate," he said.

who the hell says that? how many of you cringed when he used that?
why couldn't he have just said "fair go" or 'you're joking right' or worst case, said it correctly 'fair suck of the sav'.
He was trying to seem and sound more Aussie than he is actually is and for what gain i don't know.
It's as if he was trying to show off.

Don't get me wrong, i love my slang, but i hate hearing it when it's just wrong.

I didn't know he said that but I'm cringing now Anyway I haven't voted for labor since my early 20's and think labor just needs to be gone.

reply to post by Wide-Eyes

There is a central banking scheme. Its based in debt, interest and money printing. Its a scheme developed by the Jew Rothschilds and is the basis for the Federal Reserve, Bank of England and ECB.

This is an undeniable fact.

I'm British and I feel so happy to live and work in Australia, I know my fellow Brits can be a whingy whining lot. It's worse when you live there, I apologize for that, we're not all the same you know.....the whole cynicism thing goes too far. Looks like I got here just in time to see the solar subsides taken away and electricity prices rising shockingly..... You can tell the government here doesn't give a stuff about the environment by it's actions. Indeed why not subsidise solar power for rental properties, as landlords on their own would never invest? We grow our own vegetables because they grow so well here. It was always a battle in the UK, and as I understand, people are getting their doors kicked in for attempting it in the US. Australia seems to have a rich cash culture and I enjoy trading with people here. I think this place is ripe for skills trading and an alternative cash economy. Anything to sideline greedy governments and corps.