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Cognitive dissonance on this forum

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posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 07:10 PM
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reply to post by notquiteright
 


Good point. None of our leaders have proven themselves depending on your perspective. I certainly don't endorse Kim Jung Il


But from the perspective of an American, I can tell you that our freedom loving inhabitants aren't trying hard enough. We are fighting over money and how it's distributed. We aren't thinking big picture. And the leaders we elect reflect our fearful mindset.. They are simply pulling the strings on our emotions. It's up to our collective population to put our petty differences aside and turn the tables on them!! (the corporations and the politicians)




posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 07:28 PM
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reply to post by NavalFC
 


You don't have to lose your national identity to ally yourself against a common threat. Aliens is not an excuse to kill national identity and cultural diversity.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 12:52 AM
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reply to post by NavalFC
 


Methinks cognitive dissonance does not mean what you think it does since the people with these conflicting beliefs do not appear to suffer any dissonance (out of respect I wont give my guess as to why I believe this is). What it actually refers to is dissonance (discomfort) over two conflicting beliefs, that cause a person to rectify these different beliefs. This can be done by changing one of your beliefs.

In your scenario a person suffering cognitive dissonance due to believing in E.T. and yet believing a global government is bad might become more open to a global government and eventually believe it to be a good, even necessary event.

Another common form of removing dissonance is by creating a "rule exception" to rectify the conflict without changing beliefs. This might take the form of a person deciding that a global government would indeed be a good thing, but TPTB aren't trustworthy enough and do not have the global interest as their interest, so we have to fight the "man" so we can usher in the global government that deserves to be in charge.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 01:27 AM
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Global Government....that will be the day. Although there are many a large corporation with ties to politicians and military in an effort to sway world events for their benifit...this is far from a world government. Most people in this world are too busy truing to find ways to either screw each other over or kill one another.

In one of my jobs...I got to talk some philosophy with a few American Tank commanders about how they felt about being halfway around the world...away from family and friends...all in some ambiguous effort to defeat the stated bad guys who had control of massive resourses.

In another place...almost the same situation but with different goals.

In both cases...the answer was the same...they said...It no longer matters what the reasons are...or what the politics are...or whether or not this is some vast plan of action by what many a conspiracy advocate would say is an attempt at a New world order and globalization. All that matters to us is that we are here and there is nothing that will hold us back from earning the right to go back home to our families. Any other talk is all bogus.

Split Infinity



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 01:32 AM
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reply to post by NavalFC
 


I hope to see the day when we no longer see our borders as walls (some being literal walls, e.g. Mexico). I hope it comes sooner than later, but there needs to be a lot closed minds opened for that to ever happen.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 01:35 AM
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I love the line in MIB where Tommy Lee says to the boarder patrol....Go on keeping us safe from the dangerous Aliens. I laughed my ass off!

U.S. citizens do not take jobs harvesting crops. The people who do this are from Mexico...and are migrant workers. WE NEED THEM! THEY NEED US! Why not make it legal for them to work here?

Anyone who disputes this knows nothing of the reality. Split Infinity



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 01:39 AM
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reply to post by NavalFC
 


If the same kooks are in charge that are in charge of our current governments then I vote no for global government. We have too many leading us that are more concerned with themselves, their own ideals, and how much wealth they can amass during this lifetime. When I start seeing compassionate leadership more concerned about creating prosperity and elevating standards of living then I can support a global government. Until then a global government, brought about by aliens appearing will prompt our leaders to build huge spaceships to fight them. And they will do so convincing everyone that it is for their own good.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 01:53 AM
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Originally posted by ExPostFacto
reply to post by NavalFC
 


If the same kooks are in charge that are in charge of our current governments then I vote no for global government. We have too many leading us that are more concerned with themselves, their own ideals, and how much wealth they can amass during this lifetime. When I start seeing compassionate leadership more concerned about creating prosperity and elevating standards of living then I can support a global government. Until then a global government, brought about by aliens appearing will prompt our leaders to build huge spaceships to fight them. And they will do so convincing everyone that it is for their own good.


There is no chance...zero percent...that there will ever be intervention by any alien race as you have described. Why do people always equate Human morality and idealism of right and wrong with some type of Universal Understanding?

E.T. has been making deals with the same Government that you state will fight them...as if THAT would ever happen or have any effect even if it did. E.T. is only interested in their OWN agendas. They are not going to get involved...unless there is something in it for them! Split Infinity



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by NavalFC
... it would force people to think of themselves as Earthlings instead of being American or Chinese or Russian or Mexican or Libyan etc etc. People would then owe their allegiance to the species, and not to just any one nation state, how can a believer in aliens be so opposed to globalism...


People are not against globalism, when it is meant in the very narrow sense of "Gee wow, we're all earthlings, isn't that neat!" and putting the good of the planet over the good of any one nation.

People are against globalization, which is a different word though the same root, and which has come to mean the criminally exploitative economic relationships, prison sweatshop labor, the destruction of trade unions and the middle class, and all the rest of the evil worked by a global criminal elite.


Globalism:
"The attitude or policy of placing the interests of the entire world above those of individual nations."


Globalization:
"The increasing unification of the world's economic order through reduction of such barriers to international trade as tariffs, export fees, and import quotas."

or in other words,
The attitude or policy of placing the interests of psychopathic billionaires above those of individual citizens.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 05:45 PM
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reply to post by NavalFC
 



Well if the NWO or whatever fights the aliens like the United Nation fights for world peace then we are in a world of hurt.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by NavalFC
People would then owe their allegiance to the species, and not to just any one nation state, how can a believer in aliens be so opposed to globalism, when the result of any ET contact would be a global sense of identity, leading eventually to a global government to represent Earth in the cosmos. The inevitable result of any alien contact is globalism, yet some, even among the believers, stay rooted in nationalism. Why is that?


If such be the case, that the earth could have a represetitive body to represent it "in the cosmos", it would certainly have to be part of a balance of earth political power. There is no reason that an introduction to other worldy powers would require an earth government that would absorb all other earth political powers.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by NavalFC
People would then owe their allegiance to the species, and not to just any one nation state, how can a believer in aliens be so opposed to globalism, when the result of any ET contact would be a global sense of identity, leading eventually to a global government to represent Earth in the cosmos. The inevitable result of any alien contact is globalism, yet some, even among the believers, stay rooted in nationalism. Why is that?


If such be the case, that the earth could have a represetitive body to represent it "in the cosmos", it would certainly have to be part of a balance of earth political power. There is no reason that an introduction to other worldy powers would require an earth government that would absorb all other earth political powers.



Humans are in no way close to any level that would earn us the right to become a VOICE in any concieved notion of Interstellar politics. We are MILLENIA away from that reality.

For the time being...any communication or interaction between Humanity and the various known E.T. races...and this communication is very much one sided...until we pull out our ACE IN THE HOLE....is handled by an agency in a country that is the logical choice as far as E.T. is concerned...to be the group to communicate with.

E.T.'s logic is based on decieding what group of humanity has the greatest ability of logistics, power projection, technical expertise and longest history in dealing with them....this being an Agency of the United States. The U.S. is also their logical choice in that it speaks for many allies and defence groups....as well as having an information sharing agreement with former adversaries as well as current rivals.

Although the U.S, Russia, China...etc...compete for high tech....and resources...unlike conditions during the cold war....Russia and China have come into agreement with a Global U.S. policy that takes all concerns into acccount....and although some in both the Russian and Chinese Military screamed bloody murder over what they felt was giving away the keys to the secret vault...some specific and detailed information releases to a very small contingency in both of these countries....conveyed a reality and brought these people into an understanding that to not come into agreement of cooperation on this issue....was EXTREMELY DETRIMENTAL to the goals and security of their own countries.

Split Infinity



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 08:18 PM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by NavalFC
People would then owe their allegiance to the species, and not to just any one nation state, how can a believer in aliens be so opposed to globalism, when the result of any ET contact would be a global sense of identity, leading eventually to a global government to represent Earth in the cosmos. The inevitable result of any alien contact is globalism, yet some, even among the believers, stay rooted in nationalism. Why is that?


If such be the case, that the earth could have a represetitive body to represent it "in the cosmos", it would certainly have to be part of a balance of earth political power. There is no reason that an introduction to other worldy powers would require an earth government that would absorb all other earth political powers.



Humans are in no way close to any level that would earn us the right to become a VOICE in any concieved notion of Interstellar politics. We are MILLENIA away from that reality.

For the time being...any communication or interaction between Humanity and the various known E.T. races...and this communication is very much one sided...until we pull out our ACE IN THE HOLE....is handled by an agency in a country that is the logical choice as far as E.T. is concerned...to be the group to communicate with.



What would constitute "the right"?

We have no rights. But we do apparently have somethng they want. We certainly dont really need to get involved in interstellar politics anyway and shouldnt care if they like it or not. Unless they have plans to inslave the race.

You got to wonder if all this big talk isnt an effort by them to get us to forget defending ourselves. Only one person in the cosmos has that right and the right to force humanity.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by SplitInfinity

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by NavalFC
People would then owe their allegiance to the species, and not to just any one nation state, how can a believer in aliens be so opposed to globalism, when the result of any ET contact would be a global sense of identity, leading eventually to a global government to represent Earth in the cosmos. The inevitable result of any alien contact is globalism, yet some, even among the believers, stay rooted in nationalism. Why is that?


If such be the case, that the earth could have a represetitive body to represent it "in the cosmos", it would certainly have to be part of a balance of earth political power. There is no reason that an introduction to other worldy powers would require an earth government that would absorb all other earth political powers.



Humans are in no way close to any level that would earn us the right to become a VOICE in any concieved notion of Interstellar politics. We are MILLENIA away from that reality.

For the time being...any communication or interaction between Humanity and the various known E.T. races...and this communication is very much one sided...until we pull out our ACE IN THE HOLE....is handled by an agency in a country that is the logical choice as far as E.T. is concerned...to be the group to communicate with.



What would constitute "the right"?

We have no rights. But we do apparently have somethng they want. We certainly dont really need to get involved in interstellar politics anyway and shouldnt care if they like it or not. Unless they have plans to inslave the race.

You got to wonder if all this big talk isnt an effort by them to get us to forget defending ourselves. Only one person in the cosmos has that right and the right to force humanity.


The RIGHT would be for us to evolve for a thousand years or so...and then possibly be in a position to earn some form of respect that would actually cause them to LISTEN!

When you talk about...an effort by THEM to have us forget about defending ourselves....I think you misunderstand what I am getting at. I would be the first one on the line of defense if it ever came to some kind of war....reguardless of how ineffectual our resistance would be.

The thing is....all this talk about war with E.T. is just STUPIDITY. They have no desire to go to war...why would they? They have limitless sources of power. They have the ability to manipulate MATTER/ENERGY conversion. They have the ability to wipe out the Human race at will with a variaty of weapons...the most devestating and advantagious to them being a Bio-weapon...designed to kill all Human life but not any other life on the planet.

They could do all this and more....but why would they? We pose absolutely NO THREAT to them. We have nothing they need except to be a target for their studies. They barely interact with agency that is designated for communication and if not for the fact we had some of their STUFF and played a game of....I can always ask the other race...their competitors...they would not communicate at all.

To think that E.T. would ever go to war with us is giving the Human race too much credit in how we feel we are valuable. E.T, could care less. Split Infinity



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by SplitInfinity
 



Unless we get what some say we have had in the past. A bunch of demigods at war with each other and man fighting on one side or another.

Who cares if they respect us or not? Or listento us. Who cares. Show me some compelling reson why we should listen to them to begin with. It is what it is. Maybe their technology has turned them soft and full of hot air. Oh maybe they want worshiped like gods.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by SplitInfinity
 



Unless we get what some say we have had in the past. A bunch of demigods at war with each other and man fighting on one side or another.

Who cares if they respect us or not? Or listento us. Who cares. Show me some compelling reson why we should listen to them to begin with. It is what it is. Maybe their technology has turned them soft and full of hot air. Oh maybe they want worshiped like gods.


I never said we should listen to them...they have little to say to us in the first place. What I am saying is that we have very little in the way of leverage that we can apply to them to effect anything. Split Infinity



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by NavalFC
 


It does make sense. Everything makes sense unless you (not you personally) are ignorant. The tie is together because the NWO power happens to be the power that is most knowledgable about aliens. They are the targeted party to have made contact with aliens in 1964 and what makes me hardly doubt it is the real information I have heard from posters here on ATS.
edit on 26-9-2011 by greyer because: typo



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 10:04 PM
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reply to post by SplitInfinity
 


Well if they are evolved they wont or shouldnt be a smug bunch. They should see the wisdom in serving mankind. They will answer to mankind at some future date so they may as well get used to it now.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 10:08 PM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity

I never said we should listen to them...they have little to say to us in the first place. What I am saying is that we have very little in the way of leverage that we can apply to them to effect anything. Split Infinity



So this is a leverage deal? There must be something they want from us.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by SplitInfinity

I never said we should listen to them...they have little to say to us in the first place. What I am saying is that we have very little in the way of leverage that we can apply to them to effect anything. Split Infinity



So this is a leverage deal? There must be something they want from us.


Well...that is the Million dollar question isn't it? That question is what has everyone worrying. What would a highly advanced group of alien races want or need from us or our planet?

One could make the arguement that it is just knowledge...but given the fact that they have been coming here for a VERY LONG TIME....one has to ask...why are they still coming? They have tech. that allows them to harness infinite power, energy and resourses. They can sythasise anything they want. They can create complex structures of matter and have no need to mine anything. So what else is there?

Genetic material? All they would need is samples and they have probably gotten all they need. The leverage we can apply does allow us to wonder. Split Infinity



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