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Alabama Judge Gives Criminals Choice: Go to Jail or Go to Church

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posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


Why do you want to know?




posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by Annee
How about this judge contact some Atheist groups in the area - - - and see if they have any programs or recommendations.

Atheists are becoming more socially involved. I would bet non-religious programs are also available.
Hell, most church's of Satan are actually Atheist groups, not actual Satan worshipers, for that matter.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by CynicalDrivel
But I would like to see this as an option, but not the ONLY option.


Options to programs instead of jail. But don't most courts already do that?

Making it Church or Jail - - - is not OK. That is manipulation and coercion forcing religion (no matter the religion).

Apparently this is something novel in Alabama.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 10:26 PM
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reply to post by CynicalDrivel
 


Don't be silly. people in Alabama don't read novels. (sorry)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 10:36 PM
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I did when I was there...at camp.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 11:38 PM
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Originally posted by CynicalDrivel

Originally posted by Annee
How about this judge contact some Atheist groups in the area - - - and see if they have any programs or recommendations.

Atheists are becoming more socially involved. I would bet non-religious programs are also available.
Hell, most church's of Satan are actually Atheist groups, not actual Satan worshipers, for that matter.


That doesn't make any sense.

Atheism is lack of belief in a deity.

If they believed in Satan - they would need to believe in God.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 11:44 PM
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Originally posted by queenofsheba
reply to post by Annee
 


Why do you want to know?


I don't.

But believers almost always think its OK to push church/god on someone.

They usually think its a good thing.

The judge should have offered a variety of programs. Not just church. The fact he only offered church - makes it wrong.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 11:46 PM
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Of course it doesn't make any sense. It's not about making sense, it's about what is actually done:


The Church of Satan does not worship or support a belief in the Devil or other supernatural entities. "My real feeling is that anybody who believes in supernatural entities on some level is insane. Whether they believe in The Devil or God, they are abdicating reason," said Peter Gilmore.[3] Gilmore defines the word Satan: "Satan is a model or a mode of behavior. Satan in Hebrew means 'adversary' or 'opposer'; one who questions."[3]


The Church of Satan is an organization dedicated to the acceptance of the carnal self, as articulated in The Satanic Bible, written in 1969 by Anton Szandor LaVey.
Wiki



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 11:48 PM
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Originally posted by CynicalDrivel
Of course it doesn't make any sense. It's not about making sense, it's about what is actually done:


Like the Westboro Church are Christians?

Atheism simply means lack of belief in a deity.

What individuals do beyond that is personal choice.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 11:56 PM
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Having looked at the article, the following can be stated:

While there is a separation of Church and State that exists in the US, there is something that does not seem just exactly correct with this entire sentencing on the part of the judge. What does not seem correct, even through the choice is the criminal, is that the Judge is putting a choice between jail time and going to a church. While it may seem like a good idea, partially as the Pastors and ministers mostly do have some counseling degrees and that goes with the territory, there also stands to reason, there may not be a church, denomination or even a possible place for a person who is given this option to attend. For example, what if the person is a pagan, or follows one of the eastern religions? How would they be accommodated with this option? Does the lack of a church or place of worship, of the persons choice, disqualify the person from taking advantage of such? And what about those who are agnostic, or atheist, or even just really are not into the organized religion at all? How would this sentencing affect them?

While the sentencing alleviates the over crowding in the jails and prisons and gives those convicted a choice, it may not be the correct choice in the sentencing. It seems like the Judge here is crossing a line that should not be crossed, as it could come into conflict with those who are not a member of any one religion that is represented there, or is from a very strict sect of one. This does bare to watch, and see how this goes, to include if someone actually appeals and wins his or her freedom due to a lack of representation or even someone claiming religious discrimination as the Judge does not agree with the persons choice.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 11:59 PM
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Originally posted by Annee
Like the Westboro Church are Christians?
Up to, maybe beyond. I'm not really sure what their detailed practices are, although I'm sure it's got something to do with Hedonism.


Atheism simply means lack of belief in a deity.

What individuals do beyond that is personal choice.
Quit acting like this was an attack. Seriously. This is a group of people with atheistic beliefs that gather together to do things in common, communally, as an assembly. It's the only one I know of that has an "active worship service"--yes, it's a parody mass--for some jailbound person to get actively involved in. You're the one who said it made no sense, and I agreed that to me, it made no sense. This is the closest I got to a stance on them.



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 12:21 AM
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reply to post by Annee
 


Clearly you wanted to know because you asked the question. So now you're saying you don't want to know? Making assumptions?



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 12:37 AM
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Originally posted by CynicalDrivel

Originally posted by Annee
Like the Westboro Church are Christians?
Up to, maybe beyond. I'm not really sure what their detailed practices are, although I'm sure it's got something to do with Hedonism.


Atheism simply means lack of belief in a deity.

What individuals do beyond that is personal choice.
Quit acting like this was an attack.


A statement is not acting like I'm being attacked.

There are no emotions on the internet - - you are interpreting.

I've actually seen the documentary on this group.



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 12:39 AM
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reply to post by Annee
 





The judge should have offered a variety of programs. Not just church. The fact he only offered church - makes it wrong.


I agree with that. I don't think this is the most diabolical thing in the World (not saying you do either) but it is pretty offensive to our Constitution. I would be fine with it as long as community service or some other thing like outpatient drug rehab (whatever correlates to offense) were offered. Giving the choice between jail and Church (no matter the Church) to me seems unfair. If someone does not want to be in a Church, they should have some other way of being rehabilitated/punished.

I think that attending a Church can be a very good thing for some people. There are, however, a great number of people that hate religion. Our laws prohibit the govt. from forcing religion on people. This is essentially forcing someone to attend church. Sure they could choose jail but is that fair?

Either eat this poo sandwich (jail) or this bag of peanuts (oh crap I'm allergic).

I would gladly take Church. I've really enjoyed going on a number of occasions. Some don't, and the thought would be akin to making a Christian go to a satan worship. Not fair. There needs to be a non religious option as well.


If any of that made sense I am far less drunk than I think I am!

Also, Annee while I may not usually agree with you, I very much respect your posts. You obviously put a lot of thought into them and I have never seen you take things personally. I respect that a lot!
edit on 24-9-2011 by Domo1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 12:40 AM
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Originally posted by queenofsheba
reply to post by Annee
 


Clearly you wanted to know because you asked the question. So now you're saying you don't want to know? Making assumptions?


This: "You're religious aren't you."

Is a statement. It is not a question.



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by Domo1

If any of that made sense I am far less drunk than I think I am!



Lucky you. I just ran out of scotch.

Thanks. I try to be straight forward and logical - - - avoiding personal emotions. Of course I am human - - and do lose it occasionally



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by Annee
 


You turned it into a question by the "aren't you." But then again, you can state your opinion...fine by me. Where's my scotch??
Why does everyone drink scotch around here? I've heard that often of ATSer's.
edit on 24-9-2011 by queenofsheba because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-9-2011 by queenofsheba because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 03:03 AM
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WTF?


This is a blatant violation of separation of church and state. Imagine what would happen if the choice was between jail or going to anti-theist Dawkins speeches.



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 06:12 AM
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Thats no choice!!!!!!!!!! Jail better!!!!!!!!

Another nutty judge



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 06:28 AM
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Having someone preach to you every Sunday about being good isn't going to change the negative or dark feelings a person may have stored inside themselves.

I would think making these criminals perform acts of kindness like helping out at a soup kitchen, homeless shelters, cancer centers or homes for the elderly would help change their perspective on life. There's nothing like helping or consoling someone that returns the favor with a smile and a heart felt appreciative response. It warms the heart and make you feel good inside.



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