The Legends of Lemuria and Creation., page 2

reply to post by Byrd

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reply to post by Hanslune

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I thank you both for posting your thoughts.


Now can we all from now on stop with the "Assuming"

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Byrd

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reply to post by Hanslune

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I thank you both for posting your thoughts.


Now can we all from now on stop with the "Assuming"

....and replace it with? Presuming? LOL

reply to post by Byrd

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Considering the tech question has been put to rest :-) I would like to second Slayer's ice-dam theory with another example - the Bosporus flooding. This theory is offered to supplement Slayer's idea of ice-dams is possible, as this theory uses a similar mechanism, but in a more confined way.

The Bosporus Flood Event , or Black Sea deluge theory, was put forth by William Ryan and Walter Pittman theorizing that a sill, formed when the Mediterreanean dropped below the level of the Bosporus Strait, was breached by rising sea levels and filled the Black Sea with an output of 200 Niagara Falls per day, or 40 cubic kilometers of water for approximately 300 days.

Granted - there is controversy with this theory, both in amount entering the Black Sea and whether the event was as sudden as theorized by Ryan and Pittman - but I offer this as something more 'established' in archeology and geology which, while not explicitly supporting Slayer, offers a comparable situation to what he is describing in occurance. Ice-dams could in fact hold enough water to significantly change salinity and cause a bump in rising levels, enough to disrupt climates and growth and forcing flight to find more fertile areas.

Originally posted by MagoSA
reply to post by Byrd

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Considering the tech question has been put to rest :-) I would like to second Slayer's ice-dam theory with another example - the Bosporus flooding. This theory is offered to supplement Slayer's idea of ice-dams is possible, as this theory uses a similar mechanism, but in a more confined way.

That's a different mechanism. In the Bosporus event, an ocean floods into a low lying area... so you have a whole planet's worth of water spilling into an area (which might have lowered the ocean level by a tiny amount.) In the ice dams, you have a large lake of water that pours into a huge area -- the ocean.

(pulling some figures up from Wikipedia)
The ocean surface is around 139 million square miles. Its volume (pour it into a ... planet-sized cup) is 310 million cubic miles.

If you flash-melted ALL the ice (both poles and all the glaciers) from the deepest part of the last ice age, the ocean would rise around 120 feet... certainly high enough to drown out a lot of the coastlines. However, the entire glacier icepack didn't melt.

The ice lakes did add to the volume of water, but they weren't that large.

I found a very nice site that takes a look at the math, asking "how much ice would have to melt to raise the level of the oceans one millimeter... one inch... one foot." Check this link out!

It's all metric, but you can convert to feet and inches here:

It turns out that the amount of ice you need to melt to raise the oceans an inch is 5677 cubic miles. So in order to raise the whole thing an inch, you'd have to take an area the size of Connecticut, pack it with a layer of ice that's a mile thick, and melt the thing. The ice lakes were large, but they weren't lakes the size of New Jersey.

The lakes leave traces and when they melt, they leave traces (this is an ice flood awareness institute site that talks about ice age floods)

Could a vast lake over Beringia have suddenly melted? That's likely, but we don't see any evidence of it yet. Could there have been more than one of these large floods? Oh yes.

But (as I tell kids) think of Earth as a giant crime scene. The floods leave traces... traces where the water was (as a lake) and traces when it bursts its banks and flows out to sea.

So far, there's not convincing "fingerprints" or "footprints" to show this kind of "crime" (a single flood that suddenly raised the ocean level several feet) occurred. The evidence is for a slower rise in the oceans and one that people moved away from, taking their technology.

Could there be this kind of evidence buried on the continental shelves? Possibly.

Was this the source of Biblical legends or the legend of Lemuria? No. The Biblical stories come from Babylon, and Lemuria wasn't a legend before the Theosophists heard about the proposed "vanished land" (that didn't exist) and peopled it with figments of their imagination.

reply to post by Harte

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at any point did i say they shouldn't have flood stories? i thought the point was most do. like rivers which flood there is corruption needing destroying everywhere too so its no surprise that is a common co-theme. there are boat flood stories and earthen enclosure flood stories so i don't deny they are wildly diverse. boat stories and earthen enclosure coexisted in time [hindus and zoroastrians] and boat stories followed earthen enclosure stories in time too [as in mesopotamia]. how the ancients physically rendered these arks could have led to some confusion.

so what was your issue? wasn't it someone else that said all this wasn't how things actually are in the mythologies?

now...
i have to assume that you're saying that the great flood [not Great Flood] in the lake of double flame from the book of going forth by day is a flood of fire even though the contents of the lake of double flame are everywhere described as cool fresh water and the place is a paradise where osiris has his throne. i assume you'll insist it is infact Great Flood even though faulkner doesn't just because she is mentioned elsewhere in the text. yes she wiped out mankind but water isn't indicated am i right so far? what can i say? did faulker err or are we to assume that every usage of great flood is the famous person Great Flood? do the hierglyphics indicate this?

i know that if i say at edfu it says that they were rebuilding in the duat what had been before the flood then you'll say edfu is just lately written trash which means nothing even though the greeks went through a great deal of trouble to study all the information they could to try to get to the bottom of all the confusion the egyptians had created over the millenia...

so ultimately it would be necessary to show you on a map where the great flood was and when, the peoples who were flooded out, the great enclosure in which some folks took refuge and then show how people from that region are connected to the earliest civilizings of egypt in this case. spot on am i?

Originally posted by Parta
reply to post by Harte

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at any point did i say they shouldn't have flood stories? i thought the point was most do. like rivers which flood there is corruption needing destroying everywhere too so its no surprise that is a common co-theme. there are boat flood stories and earthen enclosure flood stories so i don't deny they are wildly diverse. boat stories and earthen enclosure coexisted in time [hindus and zoroastrians] and boat stories followed earthen enclosure stories in time too [as in mesopotamia]. how the ancients physically rendered these arks could have led to some confusion.

so what was your issue? wasn't it someone else that said all this wasn't how things actually are in the mythologies?

The point was that flood stories (supposedly) tie together diverse cultures. People in this thread (and others) attempt to make that claim so that they can proceed with their Biblical flood claims.

However, in your response, you included a culture with no actual flood myth as being a culture with a flood myth.

That was my issue. It's nothing personal. It's me trying to provide a counterpoint in a thread as close to the original post as possible. I do this because threads like these show up in google searches on keywords like "flood myth." I used to use this site to find info I could search on.

We've spoken before on the lake of fire flood. I maintain that this was not a flood of Egypt. It was a flood in the underworld.

I realize there are subtleties to your argument. However, in the end, there is no myth that claims any of Egypt was ever flooded. Other than (obviously) the annual Nile flood which was a huge part of their culture.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Parta
reply to post by Harte

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at any point did i say they shouldn't have flood stories? i thought the point was most do. like rivers which flood there is corruption needing destroying everywhere too so its no surprise that is a common co-theme. there are boat flood stories and earthen enclosure flood stories so i don't deny they are wildly diverse. boat stories and earthen enclosure coexisted in time [hindus and zoroastrians] and boat stories followed earthen enclosure stories in time too [as in mesopotamia]. how the ancients physically rendered these arks could have led to some confusion.

so what was your issue? wasn't it someone else that said all this wasn't how things actually are in the mythologies?

The point was that flood stories (supposedly) tie together diverse cultures. People in this thread (and others) attempt to make that claim so that they can proceed with their Biblical flood claims.

However, in your response, you included a culture with no actual flood myth as being a culture with a flood myth.

That was my issue. It's nothing personal. It's me trying to provide a counterpoint in a thread as close to the original post as possible. I do this because threads like these show up in google searches on keywords like "flood myth." I used to use this site to find info I could search on.

We've spoken before on the lake of fire flood. I maintain that this was not a flood of Egypt. It was a flood in the underworkld.

I realize there are subtleties to your argument. However, in the end, there is no myth that claims any of Egypt was ever flooded. Other than (obviously) the annual Nile flood which was a huge part of their culture.

Harte

harte i wholeheartledly agree that it wasn't egypt that was flooded. it was the underworld. the flood of the hindus and the zoroastrians and the mesopotamians likewise did not take place in their geographical regions but in the underworld. the underworld to all of them had once been paradise where the gods lived.

reply to post by Parta

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See, here you go too far.

The legendary floods of almost all these other cultures were recorded as actual floods in the actual places where these cultures existed.
You can't argue that the Sumer flood myth was not couched in terms of a physical flood of the Tigris/Euphrates basin, for example.

On the other hand, I'm glad to see that we agree on something.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte
reply to post by Parta

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See, here you go too far.

The legendary floods of almost all these other cultures were recorded as actual floods in the actual places where these cultures existed.
You can't argue that the Sumer flood myth was not couched in terms of a physical flood of the Tigris/Euphrates basin, for example.

On the other hand, I'm glad to see that we agree on something.

Harte

the flooding of enkis bolts was in the underworld. gilgamesh traveled to meet utnapishtim in the underworld.
i assumed he went there because thats where the flood happened not because he was just dead.

i am surprised no one posted the spirit science information, so to help out here is the info. There are 5 sub series of this one series, and each one is good, but I believe the first 2 or 3 refer to Mu and Atlantis.



Slayer i think this does support your theory.

Originally posted by Parta

Originally posted by Harte
reply to post by Parta

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See, here you go too far.

The legendary floods of almost all these other cultures were recorded as actual floods in the actual places where these cultures existed.
You can't argue that the Sumer flood myth was not couched in terms of a physical flood of the Tigris/Euphrates basin, for example.

On the other hand, I'm glad to see that we agree on something.

Harte

the flooding of enkis bolts was in the underworld. gilgamesh traveled to meet utnapishtim in the underworld.
i assumed he went there because thats where the flood happened not because he was just dead.

edit on 27-9-2011 by Parta because: (no reason given)

A rather large assumption, but I get your meaning.

My point was that the story itself is about a flood of the land, not of the underworld. In Egypt, the opposite appears to be the case.

Harte

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