It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Vampires and Werewolves are real? Opinions on Christian lecture.

page: 1
4

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 03:28 PM
link   
Last night, while looking for information on various cults I came across an interesting video: "Vampires and Werewolves: Real or Fake".
It's a lecture/sermon by Bill Schoebelen on The Prophesy Club.

More succinctly it's a fundamentalist Christian DVD that warns people against the Twilight books and films.
A central point is that the Twilight material is aimed at teenage girls (aged 12-17), and that it is used in some Christian camps for teens because it was written by a Mormon who was against pre-marital sex and abortion (which is supposedly reflected in the books).
But beware kiddies, warns Schoebelen.
Behind the innocence lurks the reality of demonized vampires and very real werewolves!

Schoebelen is announced as a former Wiccan, second degree Satanist, Illuminati member, voodoo priest and Mason.
He discusses vampirism as a fetish, and claims that human blood is more addictive than heroin.
In a long concise history of vampiric novels and film, he then concludes that modern vampires do not live forever, but they do have a fetish for blood and are very "demonized".

He does however believe in werewolves and shape-shifting.
He mentions Native American skinwalkers, and cites a doctor who saw a woman change into a raven on an Indian reservation.
He then claims that werewolves are rare but real.
In his previous "satanic cult" one could go two ways: a vampire or a werewolf.
He claims to have chosen the vampire, because what one had to do to become a werewolf was just too terrible to mention.
Besides that it was a painful path, because the bones would literally break during the transformation.
He also claims that the transformation scene in the film "The Howling" was rumored to be a real satanic werewolf.

He says that werewolves are used for discipline and assassinations in satanic cults.
The cult he mentions is called "The Brotherhood" (the same fictional "cult" discussed by the much dismissed Rebecca Brown books).

The speaker discusses vampirism as a long-winded fetish, without much benefit (and never misses an opportunity to compare it to homosexuality).
However, with werewolves his claims change completely.
He talks about a woman who was raped by her husband (obviously a Mormon Bishop) while he was a werewolf.
He talks about a Hell's Angels' member who changed into a werewolf, and a little old lady changed him back in the name of Jeshua!
These demons cannot enter where one prays the blood of Jeshua, or rebukes them in His name.
He even tortures some Bible verses to prove his points.

And at the end of it all we are told that vampires and werewolves are demonic, and therefore not proper heroes or entertainment for Christians!
So forbid those Twilight books!
Well, I found his whole lecture very entertaining.

But I wonder - could there be some truth to it?

I will focus on the werewolves where his references start at 1:22 in a long lecture.


edit on 23-9-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 04:13 PM
link   
reply to post by halfoldman
 


Demons are very powerful, and have the ability to take shape of whatever they want, be it a werewolf, a vampire, bigfoot, "spirits" of our ancestors, a UFO.. Sounds ridiculous, but it actually does fit quite well when you look at the implications and doesn't contradict any "theories" out there.

Besides, people will believe they see these things and I'll believe they saw them too.. the difference is, they'll take what they saw for what it is, I'll believe what they saw was a demon, if they saw it at all.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 04:22 PM
link   
The Howling (1981).

Bill Schoebelen proposes the rather intriguing theory that transformation scenes in this film were a mixture of make-up and reality.

Not only that, but he argues that werewolves in film are becoming more realistic.

He does take care however to divide them and their footprints from Bigfoot. Although he admits witnesses may confuse the two in the darkness, he considers Bigfoot to be something completely different.

The transformation scene (not for children or Ewoks):




posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 04:39 PM
link   
Just found your interesting thread from your profile.

I have always had my suspicions about the Twilight story.

Stephanie Meyer DID apparently conceptualize the story after she had a powerful dream about a girl falling in love with a vampire. Now - I am not going to get into my beliefs about "dream-time" here... but I do believe that dream-time is more than just the brain's random replaying of experiences and scenes...

The absolute fanatic fervour with which these stories have been received - especially by the young and impressionable - suggests to me that there may be some synergy or consciousness that wants to and is able to tap into this fantasy-and-energy stream generated by the masses. A different form of vampirism, I suppose? Twilight just about managed to break down any defence-system and taboo against vampirism and instead turned it into soft-cuddly-bunny moosh.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 05:02 PM
link   
reply to post by shimmeringsilver73
 

Thanks for the reply!

I really felt sad about that thread being forgotten so quickly because these books and films should be more discussed from various angles.

It is quite possible that people draw resources from dreams, and I've even heard that about scientific ideas.
The notion is also popular amongst some fundamentalist Christians, who would argue that some books and especially rock lyrics are written under demonic influences.

But then perhaps their material is also influenced by some "spirit".
Perhaps Schoebelen is also under some influence and cashing in on a demonic industry?
Rebecca Brown, who popularized the idea that werewolves are real (and demonically possessed Satanists) in her books He Came to Set the Captives Free and Prepare for War wrote her Christian books in a haze of stolen medication.
www.scrollpublishing.com...
Brown began her writing career after she lost her medical license and turned patients into drug addicts.
She borrowed and popularized the massively influential fictional ideas of a mass Satanic cult called "The Brotherhood", and the "brides of Satan", and real werewolves.
(All of them very influential and recycled by Schoebelen's preaching and claims.)

Strange that Schoebelen never mentions Brown's books as his influence, because what he says borders on plagiarism.
Some Christians are now critical of her horror stories, but seemingly many still believe it.
Everybody could be under some influence, and none of those influences sound particularly good for a healthy and tolerant society.

But perhaps tapping into the unconscious can bring some people a breakthrough, and a fortune.
Like Harry Potter it's probably just fantasy.
But it's probably true that a fetish for Vampirism is growing, and so is a number of people who think werewolves are real, and in some fairly mainstream churches that is preached officially.

edit on 6-10-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 05:28 PM
link   
Um, this is why I don't want Christians to run this nation as a theocracy.

If you say gullible really slowly, it sounds like oranges.

Yeah.

He was what? A wiccan high priest (didn't learn jack there obviously), A satanist (didn't learn jack there either), an illuminati, a member of the order of knights templar, and WHAT ELSE?

WHAT??? NONE of those things sounds like the other if you know jack about them. Now he's an evangelical preacher? Ok....

I suspect of all these things he might have been a satanist....out for himself....knowing what he can sell best and enjoying making Christians look stoopid.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 05:43 PM
link   
reply to post by hadriana
 

I'm undecided, I do believe werewolves and shape-shifting are a possibility.

I also believe that there is a sizable Vampire "fetish" community (although even Schoebelen says they don't live forever or turn into bats).

Nothing against adult people's choices, but if I had a child, I would be quite alarmed if it started getting heavily involved in Vampirism, or drinking blood.

I've seen the Twilight movies, and I doubt it really promotes that, but I could be wrong.
I just got so annoyed with this irritating heroine in the last one.
Here she has this gorgeous guy who turns into a cuddly wolf totally in love with her.
And yet she runs after this hideous guy who looks like a dork on meth.
I could honestly slap her silly!

But I guess she has to choose the white guy (even if he's an unnaturally whiter shade of pale).
You can have vampires and werewolves, but race mixing in mainstream Hollywood?
I mean even Kevin Costner conveniently found a white damsel amongst the Lakota in Dances with Wolves.

edit on 6-10-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 06:01 PM
link   
reply to post by halfoldman
 

But perhaps, thinking more practically, if a wolf (or indeed a whole pack) that size pooped on your porch every full-moon, and you're the poor woman who has to clean it, I'd perhaps also rather marry the vampire.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 06:26 PM
link   
Why do monotheists always call vampires, werewolves, satanists and witches evil, when they are the ones judging people for their beliefs (or curses, I guess)_javascript:icon('
')? All the witches and Satanists I've met have never tried to convert me or push their ideas on me or my friends. Christians and Scientologists are the only religious cults that have ever tried to convert people on such a massive scale. And yes, by definition, Christianity, Scientology, and even Buddhism, are all cults, considering a cult is where people follow the idea of one man and/or are overly controlling (look it up in the dictionary). I like and agree with a lot of Buddhist wisdom, but they're still a cult. All that to say, Satanists (unless they're hard core LaVeyan Satanists), Wiccans, vampires and shifter communities are not cults. Of course, I am sure they do exist within these subcultures, and the Wiccans are the only ones that worship anything, but not a person or one persons Idea.

I've never met a vampire, but I would imagine, at least from what I have studied, psychic vampires and sanguine vampires are not evil. A bit open about their sexuality and practitioners of black magic (which is not evil), because they only take from willing donors. It's part of their code, at least in literature (Michelle Belanger, Father Sebastiaan).

Demons being a part of everything from ancestors to vampires sounds a bit rubbish. Unless you are completely gullible and have no free will then yes, demons can hold all the power over you. Then again, all of this can just be metaphors for psychological baggage and tricks of the eye. Who knows. I've always wanted to meet a vampire, or vampyre as the community spells it, just to see. And if blood suckers do exist, maybe they are evil, or eat rats. And how do we know vampires and werewolves aren't cuddly creatures of the night? Maybe they like it because it's romantic? On a serious note, most of our 'information' on these creatures, among others, come from media or Christian view points. in other words, our knowledge on the mysterious and unknown has only been given to us from the Church's viewpoint until very recently.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 09:02 PM
link   
reply to post by JollyFist
 

Interesting post.

I can only say that if one is recruited into some Christian churches or sects, one very quickly buys their books and opens the old wallet.

They tell you that you are suddenly special, and you can rebuke all these demons of the night, and you have power through Jesus over mighty werebeasts.

I suppose it would be a real let down if somebody convinced you then that it was all just fantasy, and Jesus actually just wants you to clothe and feed the poor.



posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 02:31 AM
link   
reply to post by halfoldman
 


I honestly believe in the supernatural, being I have had my own experiences, and even a few with other people conscious of the same events, it's just sad to see people condemn everyone else because of misinterpretation (or bad translation) of a holy book. I find it funny when Jews and Christians fight over who the 'chosen ones' are, like an all loving creator really cares more about one or the other. He's all loving after all, unless of course you are Muslim, Wiccan, Jewish, Catholic, Christian or fan of some night kind teen romance.

It's sad money plays such a big role in spiritual progress and people actually believe just because they worship Christ they suddenly have power over the spirits. Holding a cross to some of these beings probably wouldn't work, especially, assuming they exist, if it was a vampire or werewolf or duke of Hell come for your soul. That's like saying holding a cross and praying to Christ will stop a violent PCP addict from smashing your head in with a shoe. I mean, I do believe in miracles and all of that, but stopping a violent attacker just by praying is ridiculous, unless of course you are some highly trained monk that can manipulate reality with intonation...

Like you said, rip away the fantasy and you are left with helping the needy and loving it. Like Ghandi said, or was it the Dalai Lama (?) "Love is my religion." I also take Jimi Hendrix's quote to heart, "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Every religious leader should take heed these simple phrases and stop condemning these creatures of the night, and on a more practical level, start excepting others for their beliefs and practices.



posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 02:59 AM
link   
I think the fact that we are even here on this planet, means everything is on the table. There really are more than we know about between heaven and hell. You aren't wrong to have an open mind.

SnF



posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 04:50 AM
link   
reply to post by halfoldman
 


I didn't watch the video,but i will later.
May i remind you that the same discussions/lectures took place about the Harry Potter books,so it's not surprising at all.

I believe there is a good chance that these creatures exist,maybe not the way books and movies describe them.
Here in Greece we have many vampire folk tales and there are many small islands that vampires supposedly live there.In the past they placed the cemetaries in small islands near the main island,because they were afraid that the dead will turn into vampires.According to the local folk tales,vampires cannot cross sea water,so the inhabitants of the islands felt safe that way.The most famous is the island Kameni,near Santorini,but there is a big list of "vampire islands" around Greece.
Bao Islet - Across from the port of Mykonos
Islet Hecate - Delos
Reef Panagia Nisiotisa Theano - Evia
Grave Island - Kefalonia
Nekrothikes and rocky islet of Plati - Pserimos
Vrykolakonisia - North Skyros
Islet Kalathas - Chania
Daimononisia - Northern Sporades
Islet Goni - Oinouses
Venetian Island - Chios

I have heard many stories from older family members who live in Crete,about vampires and one uncle of mine had shown me graves of people that were vampires(at least they believed this).Those people usually commited suicide and weren't given a proper funeral.They were buried,not in the cemetary,but in their farms.
I can go on forever with the local vampire tales.

There are also diseases that can have the "symptoms" that could indicate someone is a vampire or a werewolf.And maybe the entire myth started from those.
clinical lycanthropy

hypertrichosis

Porphyria


BTW there is an episode on "Supernatural" that is making fun about the "Twilight" trend and suggests that vampires are writing the novels,to attract victims.(It's season 6 episode 5 "Live Free or Twi-hard",in case anyone wants to watch it).



posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 08:55 PM
link   
Konstantinos writes about the clinical problems and other theories about vampires and werewolves in his respective books about each subject (Vampires: The Occult Truth and Werewolves: The Occult Truth). In his vampire book he talks about psychic vampires, real life case studies and other theories, the same with werewolves. Werewolves is a really good read, it delves not only into superstition and clinical problems but other theories such as '___' trips and tricks of the eye, being the mass hysteria the church spread about Satan and other creatures of the night. An uneducated mass that takes the preachers word as gospel are sure to fall under the spell of fantastic hallucinations, with or without drugs.

They SyFy show Sanctuary makes fun of Twilight for a blurb as well. I wonder if True Blood will too?



new topics

top topics



 
4

log in

join