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Where are we?: The Location Of Our Galaxy In The Universe

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posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 01:59 PM
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After the "Big Bang" all of the "material" or "energy" if you will, was traveling faster than the speed of light for a short time then was slowed down a bit by the force of gravity....... (but is now accelerating again by the force of 'dark energy')

I propose two questions here:
If the universe exploded at the speed of light then slowed down a bit by gravity and now is excelorating again by 'dark energy' could we not be traveling at the speed of light already? "An object in mition stays in motion...."

This lead me to think about the Hubble constant which lead me to the second question of which I asked myself years ago but forgot about.

Can we locate the "center of mass" of the universe or at least the center point of the big bang by using the Hubble constant?

Discussion

First question:
If we are already traveling faster than the speed of light then the 'big bang' must be the center point for some sort of 3 dimensional holographic projection. The universe is a three (spatial) dimensional bubble within a fourth (spatial) dimension.

The universe could be simply an experiment being done by a super-advanced fourth dimensional civilization. Just a thought


Second question:
And now for the more serious part
Allow me show you a simple picture and give a simple explanation for the second question.

Picture this model in 3D


Edit: Maybe I didn't clarify this enough. Being that the objects in the universe's red shift vary with distance then consider each red speck in this example a galaxy. The further away the galaxy's the more red the shift which is what this simple picture depicts giving us a basic picture of the "universes' red shift", It does at the very least give us a location with respect to the observable objects in space.

As you can see if we are able to calculate differences in red shift and that the differences are directly related to distance then the universe red shift model should look something like this.

If this is so then we should be able to find a center point to the universe and also find our place within the universe.

Big Bang

Red Shift

Hubbles Constant

-Alien
edit on 9/23/2011 by Alien Abduct because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 02:12 PM
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Was that 'model' done with MS spray paint?
2nd line
Edit: I see you mentioned it would look like that.
edit on 23-9-2011 by juveous because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 02:15 PM
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The BIg Bang is nonsense. It is totally based on the "redshift equals distance" paradigm, which has been proven WRONG for years.

Also, your 3d model is wrong. We see redshift in every direction. Therefore, the Earth must be the exact center of the universe, right where the big bang took place. Otherwise, there should be at least SOME things with blueshift. But, there's not.

So obviously bs.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 02:17 PM
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Murphy's Law:





posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 02:30 PM
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Sorry, thats all wrong.

Matter didnt explode into space at the time of the big bang.
Space itself was created and started expanding at that time.

Space itself is expanding, everywhere. There is no "center".
The analogies of the dots on a balloon being blown up, or objects in an massively expanding cake are useful here.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by CaptChaos
The BIg Bang is nonsense. It is totally based on the "redshift equals distance" paradigm, which has been proven WRONG for years.

Also, your 3d model is wrong. We see redshift in every direction. Therefore, the Earth must be the exact center of the universe, right where the big bang took place. Otherwise, there should be at least SOME things with blueshift. But, there's not.

So obviously bs.


Yes we see red shift in every direction. But, as you apparently do not know (or just forgot), the degree of red shift varies from 'object to object' (as shown in the model and explained in the links and in my brief explanation).

Some objects are more red shifted than other objects.

And you are wrong too about the blue shift thing because some galaxy's are blue shifted for example the Andromeda Galaxy is on a collision course with the milky way.
Blue shifted galaxy?

-Alien



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by juveous
Was that 'model' done with MS spray paint?
2nd line
Edit: I see you mentioned it would look like that.
edit on 23-9-2011 by juveous because: (no reason given)


Yes, its not the prettiest thing but it gets the job done hehehehe. Time management at its finest

-Alien



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 03:47 PM
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Human alien.. what is all the coolstuff?



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 06:16 AM
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This being one of the fundamental problems with our current understanding of the universe, you would have thought that some effort would already have gone into this, but there is a good reason why there has been no particular progress in this feild.

I do not believe that we have enough data about the universe to establish navigational or directional understanding of our place as a planet, or as a potential traveler species, to make any guesses as to where we are in relation to the universes total size and dimensions. We have no evidence to support having found the edge of the universe proper, although we have established boundaries which mark the edge of the known universe. However those boundaries are not the same as saying "This is the edge of the universe, for sure."

All we have ever been able to establish, is how things appear to us from our own planet. The probes which are currently at the edge of our solar system (launched decades ago) have not made enough progress through space to alter our perceptions of the space in which we float.

Until we establish, for certain, without any error, how far away the edge of the actual universe is, in every direction, there is no way to know what our disposition is with regard to the rest of the universe. We can only establish our position accurately , in relation to objects which are close enough to us, to gauge thier movement and distance accurately.

Till we can literaly see the edge of the universe in every direction, all these fantastical methods, redshifts and what have you, mean jack diddly squat, until we can observe directly our position in the universe by exploring to the edges of it, in space craft, rather than relying on fancy guess work.



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 07:28 AM
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reply to post by Alien Abduct
 


I think it is inconsequential just where our Milky Way Galaxy is positioned in the larger Universe

even if our Galaxy were in one of the larger 'structures' it would take billions of years, even after our Sun already had gone SuperNova & we had a dead solar system with a dwarf cinder of a former Sun at its center...

it would be many stars lifetimes before these large Structure Galaxies interacted with one another


besides the universe is remarkably like a huge kernel of popped corn ... see picture here:
www.fotosearch.com...


the scientifically held notion that at the big bang, there was an immediate period of Inflation: ~where the universe accellerated expansion was greater than the speed-of-light)
which is pretty much how a pop corn kernal comes into being. POW-POP!

so next time you microwave a bag of that treat... think of how that bag of popcorn might just be a model for a multi-verse of universes......ummm yum-yum



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by mdc5ff
 



Originally posted by mdc5ff

Human alien.. what is all the coolstuff?

[color=DBFFB8]Have you ever seen a cow with it's head stuck in a fence?

[color=88FF63]If so, do you know how/why it happened?

[color=05FF3F]The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

[color=88FF63]The reason that stuff is so cool, is simply because we do not know what it is.

[color=DBFFB8]If you were actually over there, chances are that it would not seem very cool at all, but from here, it is some very cool stuff.



[color=999999]It is all about the mysteries of the unknown.
[color=1C1C1C]That which is unknown, is always capable of piquing one's curiosities.



edit on 9/24/11 by BrokenCircles because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 11:23 AM
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Guys, don't think that I know so little about physics and the universe. I am asking a serious question.

I know the "observable" size of the universe is 13.7 Billion light years across. This is only what we can observe so far and this is not necessarily the actual size of the universe.

(from the OP)


The further away the galaxy's the more red the shift which is what this simple picture depicts giving us a basic picture of the "universes' red shift", It does at the very least give us a location with respect to the observable objects in space.


Is there anyone that can answer the second question in the OP?

Edit: (original question) Can we locate the "center of mass" of the universe or at least the center point of the big bang by using the Hubble constant?

-Alien
edit on 9/26/2011 by Alien Abduct because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 11:26 AM
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reply to post by Human_Alien
 


I have been saying for years, once upon a time we used to be in the mix of it all. But, somewhere along the lines we got in trouble and we were put on our own side, in time out if you will, until we learned to play nicely with others.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by alfa1
Sorry, thats all wrong.

Matter didnt explode into space at the time of the big bang.
Space itself was created and started expanding at that time.

Space itself is expanding, everywhere. There is no "center".
The analogies of the dots on a balloon being blown up, or objects in an massively expanding cake are useful here.



Okay so if matter is expanding right now then if we reverse time the universe would be contracting. How far can we reverse time? Will it contract all the way down to a small point?

It appears that you believe that all of the matter in the observable universe was "created" in an already sperad out manner and then at that point began to expand after it was already spread out? Do you have any evidence for this?

Using one of the "useful analogies" you pointed out: Objects in a massively expanding cake would be all moving away from a center point.

Here is an analogy of the universe expanding: Objects move away from a center point.Universe expansion analogy


Here is what happens if you reverse time and the expansion runs backwards: universe contraction analogy

Fact: The observable universe is expanding.
This is verified by the observance of "red shift" in most stellar objects.

The rate at which the objects are moving away from us vary from object to object as explained in the OP. Thus some objects are more "red shifted" than others making some of them redder than others in my 'model'.

The expansion rate of the universe is calculated using the Hubble Constant.



-Alien




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