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Why Israel Cant Win

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posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 02:55 PM
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So long as Israel holds on to land stolen from Arabs and claims it as it's own it enables Arabs or anyone for that matter to take land from Israel and claim it as their own.

It becomes a never ending cycle of violence perpetrated by Israel.

You cannot complain about other people attacking you when you have attacked them.

A smarter way to go would be to hand the land back and create two states or give the Palestinians a fair say in the running of a one state.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.






edit on 23-9-2011 by bigyin because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by EvanJP
reply to post by DerekJR321
 


I want to make a comment on the video you had posted.. Those children are being brainwashed, and that is so easy to see. That clip made me extremely sad, because I wouldn't know if those kids were Jewish if I ran into them on the street.


Your right. They are absolutely being brainwashed. And its very sad. These children are being taught to fear and hate. Which just perpetuates this situation further and further. If they were taught to get along, as well as arab children taught to get along... maybe somewhere down the line all of this nonsense would be over with.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by DerekJR321
 


"nonsense"

End of story! Haha! That is all it really comes down to.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 03:35 PM
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Maybe Israel is just like its' good friend the USA.

protecting the mafias is big business.

Gaza is a large portal for smugglers.

Israel controls Gaza with most businesses.

Limited military actions usually point to a greater agenda.


Israel Black Market Data




I will say why. A friend of mine told me that what the Israelis have done by not allowing many items from being directly imported into Gaza is to create a black-market for such goods, of which the Israelis control. The people in Gaza have to pay an exorbitant amount for everyday items that we and the Israelis take for granted. By creating a black market, certain Israelis make incredible profits; much the same way corrupt prison guards who smuggle in illegal items into prison. To me, after researching this, I do not see the difference between the Gaza Strip and the Warsaw ghetto. This is insanity, and the sooner we stop giving foreign aid to ALL countries, the better. The Goldstone Report: Landmark Investigation of the Gaza Conflict





What is Israel's "official" reasons for not wanting a Palestine State anyway.

Hard to find specific genuine quotes from Israeli leaders.

Most answers are bulldreked away from the main questions.

Mostly complaining and sobbing with lots of diversionary statements.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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Reply to post by dontreally
 


Well if Israel were to be attacked I'm sure they are overprepared for it, besides, if it gets bad NATO can bomb them, I mean help them


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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Reply to post by dontreally
 


Well if Israel were to be attacked I'm sure they are overprepared for it, besides, if it gets bad NATO can bomb them, I mean help them


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Hamas was elected in free and fair elections, when you create an environment like the ones in Gaza you shouldn't be surprised when extremist groups form, and Israel has intentionally targeted civilians before. Is one form of terrorism better than another? Is killing innocent people with laser guided missiles launched from fancy fighter jets more civilized? And why exactly is Hamas suddenly the problem in a two state solution...this all started before they even existed, they had excuses back then as well.

edit on 23-9-2011 by Solomons because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by SmArTbEaTz
 


Oh....so the 'next year in Jerusalem" repeated every Rosh Hoshanah, or the daily, praying towards the holy Temple Mount in Jerusalem - 3 times a day - has nothing to do with it??

The idea of Jews living in Israel was just the vision of "greedy bankers"??????



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


It certainly wasn't the vision of the people that were living there prior...
edit on 23-9-2011 by EvanJP because: (no reason given)


You cannot simply walk into somebodies home, and claim it as your own, because the book that YOU wrote says so.
edit on 23-9-2011 by EvanJP because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


In WW2 the French Resistance was not labeled as a terrorist organization. If Hitler had invaded England, would those fighting him be seen as a Terrorist organization?

I'm not defending the attacks on innocent Israeli's, many of whom are as sick of their government as the rest of us are, but if you move into a home that was stolen from another person, or you are living and farming on land that belonged to someone else, you deserve the hatred and revenge of that person or people.

It's not rocket science, these people view their INVADING OVERLORDS as us Brits would have viewed the Nazis had they ever stepped foot on British soil. Would we have been called terrorists for fighting the invaders to get our land back? Were the French Resistance called terrorists for bombing their Nazi invaders at every opportunity?

And it's awesome to see a thread so full of intelligent people who actually know the true face of Israel. The worst thing they could have done was attack Gaza and then repeatedly try to lie while we watched what was happening. Now, no one in the world with half a brain will trust anything Israel says.

They're liars, they're invaders, and the world knows it!



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by phishyblankwaters
 


Ignoring the insults....




Give them statehood, and they still attack, then Israel declares war, completely demolishes Gaza and takes the land for itself no questions asked.


HUH??

Can you address this simple question: Not a single Arab party to date has acknowledge the right of existence to a Jewish state. What does this imply about the feasiblity of "peace negotations?

Secondly. Its patently clear that the majority of you are in spirit (though with incredible naivete) with Palestine. Your emotions gear your mind to justify what the Palestinians want.

Even the Jews being booted out by Romans - todays Western powers, and prevented by the Christians and Muslims from establshing a state there (despite many Jews stll living there, in Jerusalem, Judea/samaria and the galilee) still, this is not enough of a basis to challenge the Arabs also make claim to the land.

Apparently, injustice only work for so-called "palestinians" (Arabs). Because what is claimed to have happened to them (the melodramatc NAKBA) has been happening to this much reviled people for a much longer time and in truth is ONLY happwning to them.

The more you untwist the knots, the more it becomes clear who is being perennially taken advantage of: The Jews. THIS IS THE ONLY TRUTH WHETHER YOURE LITTLE HEAD CAN UNDERSTAND IT OR NOT.




You seem to think Israel is so weak and vulnerable, their military and equipment speak otherwise.


Are you 6 years old? Israel is SURROUNDED BY ARAB AND ISLAMIC ENEMIES. What the hell makes you think Israel wants to occupy the westbank for any other reason then to insure its security? Foolish! Israel has enemies hundreds of tmes its size surrounding her, and you idiotically think THEY have the power. THat they can just do what she pleases?




Anyways, why should they accept a jewish state when Israel won't even accept these peoples rights as human beings? This can only benefit Israel.


what!??? What are you talking about? This is unlegible. This is meaningless drivle. Israeli Arabs have the SAME DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS as anyone else. Infact, Israels 1 million Arabs dont have a problem with Israel and they would prefer to LIVE UNDER ISRAEL.

Not spin the table. If Palestine were created, what on earth would happen to its 600,000 Jewish inhabitants??

You can bet your ass that an Islamic Arabcentric culture like "Palestine" would make like in the westbank unbearable. You'll fnd much greater racism amongst THEM - an ARAB dominant culture in the middle east then you will find Jewish 'supremism' in Israel.

Anyone with a working brain and an understnading of the middle east knows that.




Statehood happens, they still attack Israel, the whole world undoubtedly sides with Israel because they tried to do the right thing.


Ya RIGHT! NAIVE, again.

How do you think the Arabs flipped the script? When 6 Arab armies attacked Israel 3 years after the holocaust the World was on Israels side. After '67, everything changed.


The image of Israel as a weak nation surrounded by enemies seeking its annihilation evaporated [after 1967], to be replaced by the image of an aggressive nation challenging world opinion - Palestinian strategist AI-Haytham Al-Ayubi


Palestine ie; the Arabs, could bait Israeli anyway they like. False flag? Terrorist attacks from 'non-affiliated groups' - which would be regarded as an 'act of war'. And what do you think would happen if Israel attacked Palestine? Guess! ??? Do you think Arab armies would side with Israel??
I bet you do! Dont you?

Nope. Israel would be surrounded just as she was in her earlier wars. Egypt, Jordan (despite agreements of "peace"...on a piece of paper) Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, Iran...all these countries would be anxious to supplement the Palestinian army.

And the world? already we hear a chorus of "Israel is a bane on the american people". They would let Israel to fight her enemies by herself.

So, essentially, the world - the western countries/UN, and the Arab countries are in agreement: throw Israel under the bus. Palestine could very well get her state, and Israel would be baited into a war and DESTROYED by another sovereign nation - betrayed and isolated by her former 'friends' to fend for herself.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 04:43 PM
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Can you address this simple question: Not a single Arab party to date has acknowledge the right of existence to a Jewish state. What does this imply about the feasiblity of "peace negotations?

You have not supported this statement ONCE "Israel supports the existence of Palestinian state!"
The last sentence that you wrote simply implies that it is war, no matter how you cut the cake.




Secondly. Its patently clear that the majority of you are in spirit (though with incredible naivete) with Palestine. Your emotions gear your mind to justify what the Palestinians want.

Not true at all, I am against any violation of human rights, the only issue is that the land was INVADED by these people. Jew, Palestine, whatever, we are all the same, it is now a never ending cycle of hate which was INITIATED by this populace of liars, schemers, and ultimately, racist 1%ers that only care about one thing; Power.




The more you untwist the knots, the more it becomes clear who is being perennially taken advantage of: The Jews. THIS IS THE ONLY TRUTH WHETHER YOURE LITTLE HEAD CAN UNDERSTAND IT OR NOT.

Little head? You are now attempting to belittle us. Nobody is being taken advantage of, other than yourself, my friend.




Are you 6 years old? Israel is SURROUNDED BY ARAB AND ISLAMIC ENEMIES. What the hell makes you think Israel wants to occupy the westbank for any other reason then to insure its security? Foolish! Israel has enemies hundreds of tmes its size surrounding her, and you idiotically think THEY have the power. THat they can just do what she pleases?

A) They put themselves there
B)When the threat of America attacking you (again) for making an attack on Israel is a real thing, it becomes pretty obvious who is in control. It's like having a huge friend that you send to collect the lunch money from other kids on the playground.


When everybody sees these things, knows them, and realizes the impact that they have had on people (and the way they think), well it makes sense. People are conditioned to believe that the Jewish people are entitled because of WWII, that they are helpless and non-aggressive peoples, and it is a fallacy, it is false, and my first post to this thread proved that many times over. As a matter of fact, it seems to me that Zionists set their own Jewish people up for the holocaust. It is a slap in the face of the current Jewish generation, the holocaust victims, and the rest of the world. I care about people, not groups that feel entitled to anything they please whilst innocent people suffer.
edit on 23-9-2011 by EvanJP because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 04:49 PM
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And i am annoyed because i wrote this thread following CNNs "analysis" of Natanyahus speech, in which two guys, both attacked it; each from their own perspective.

This is fair and balanced from the worlds leader in News?? No. Its promotion of anti-Israeli views and opinions.

They basically championed Abbas speech as 'inspiring' and beat down Natanyahus speech as 'repetitive'.

This reframes what people just saw. Now, their opinions are 'formed' by the commentrary of the two guys CNN had to comment on it.

And yet, people will still say "the news if controlled by the zionists!"....

Is CNN not the world leader in news?? Or is BBC? Whichever, both are facillitating this transistion in opinion towards "ant-Israelism"..

Its gradual. Look, before 1967, people thought the Arabs were the aggressors. It took a few generations for that view to be cleaned away.

I guess it will take a few more years before Israel becomes a member of the "axis of evil"...

This entire strategy relies on forgetfulnes. "The past was erased and the erasure forgotten". Text book Orwellianism.

Israel gets screwed one way, and the news will have us 'forget' about it, by not mentioning it. New issues will bcome relevant like the "settlement" issue. Regardless and Heedless of the more internal fact of Israel having been opposed prior to settlements. Ignoring the fact that Abbas, Fatah, Hamas, PLO, PA, have yet to acnowledge Israel as the home for the JEWISH people...

The media ignores these facts, and so 'frame' it for people to look at the situation in one way. Its one narrative and the News presents it for us.

The narrative is clearly anti-israel, otherwise, how is to so many of you think the way you do??



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 




since you seem to think that everyone is out to get the Jews.. Let me make sure you understand this;

You cannot look at human beings as divided factions if you want any form of peace. We are one, always have been, always will be. You seem to think that the only way for this issue to be resolved is with a violent approach.

Regardless of who attacks, who retaliates, blah blah, we can all appreciate the fact that the killings and murders and ethnic cleansing are all CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY. I don't blame Jews, I don't blame Arabs. I blame those who orchestrated this massive play, and sadly enough, they happen to be a handful of Jews..

We can all live here, together, happily. Stop trying to justify your wars, because it's just damned silly.
edit on 23-9-2011 by EvanJP because: lol, conversation didn't end..



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by EvanJP
 





B)When the threat of America attacking you (again) for making an attack on Israel is a real thing, it becomes pretty obvious who is in control. It's like having a huge friend that you send to collect the lunch money from other kids on the playground.


So you have an answer for everything.....

First. If the Arabs dont accept a Jewish states, its meaningless for Israel to accept a Palestinian state. That state will b used t destroy Israel. Case closed.

Second. Did US come to Israels aid in 1948?? No.. they didnt. Infact, Harry Trman put an embargo on Arms trades just before the war, preventing he Jewish Agency from acquiring much needed artilary for the war.

The sheer fact that Israel was able to defeat 6 arab armies, despite being ill prepared and equipped is miraculous.

Did America come to Israels aid in '67? '73? Which war are you talking about.

At the very most, america has provided israel with military and economic financial aid. Not soldiers.

I would bet my life that America will in soon time abandon Israel as an ally.

Whether its Obama - who hasnt been very cordial with Israel, or even If Ron Paul comes into power, you can book it. Its a part of his foreign policy platform.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 05:05 PM
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So you have an answer for everything....

Well, my answers are rather logical, so, yeah, so far.





First. If the Arabs dont accept a Jewish states, its meaningless for Israel to accept a Palestinian state. That state will b used t destroy Israel. Case closed.

That's like saying "NO MOMMY! ROBERT HAS TO APOLOGIZE FIRST"




Second. Did US come to Israels aid in 1948?? No.. they didnt. Infact, Harry Trman put an embargo on Arms trades just before the war, preventing he Jewish Agency from acquiring much needed artilary for the war.

meria.idc.ac.il...
Hope that clears things up...




The sheer fact that Israel was able to defeat 6 arab armies, despite being ill prepared and equipped is miraculous


"At a bitterly contentious White House meeting on May 12, 1948, Truman's advisor, Clark Clifford, argued strongly for immediate recognition of the Jewish state. However, Secretary of State George C. Marshall was strongly opposed and told Truman that if he "were to follow Mr. Clifford's advice and if in the election I was to vote, I would vote against the President." (4) After some confusion and disarray between the White House and the American delegation to the United Nations, the United States did announce de facto recognition only minutes after the announcement of Israel's existence on May 14, 1948. However, the administration did not at first lift an arms embargo, and an Israeli loan request was, as Steven L. Spiegel notes, delayed by the bureaucracy until January 1949. (1949)"

NO miracles involved man, just the U.S... AS ALWAYS.




Did America come to Israels aid in '67? '73? Which war are you talking about.

See latter posted article.





At the very most, america has provided israel with military and economic financial aid. Not soldiers.

Yeah, uh... What? THAT IS WHAT YOU NEED TO FIGHT A WAR, MILITARY AID, AND FINANCIAL AID. End caps.




I would bet my life that America will in soon time abandon Israel as an ally.

I bet it won't. (my smart ass answer for the day).




edit on 23-9-2011 by EvanJP because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 05:08 PM
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reply to post by EvanJP
 


Ignorance is clearly bliss for some people.

Things are much more complicated then you understand.

This ultimately can be rooted to a metaphysical situation; and since this is a 'middle east' forum, i dont think many people here would appreciate my theological/metaphysical analysis of Judaism vs. Perennialism.

But, at the core, the Elites are Gnostic, and they oppose Jews - not just in this generation (not a new subject, Jew Bashing) but in every generation.

Thats just the fact of the situation. Its tricky, talking about 'politics' when politics is so connected to the spirtual/metaphysical dimension..... So, some people will always become confused, or interpret my language as 'war mongering" as if i couldnt look at the world another ay.

Its not war mongering. Its understanding the enemy, and the enemy has no desire for any other end than war. Unfortunately. All this back and forth is incredibly tiresome for me.

Furthermore, there are issues which will never go away and can only be resolved through war.

  • 600,000 Jews live in the Westbank. How will they "go away" without war? Got any ideas Gandhi?

  • The PA also intends to bring into Israel proper, a million plus palestinian "refugees", or rather, nationals (calling someone who works and lives in another country a 'refugee' is incredibly misleading). What would this cause?

  • What about the Temple Mount? Israel is quickly becoming more religious and mor and more Israelis are indignant that the Arabs built a mosque atop their holiest site (which is merely the 'third' holiest in Islam. When a muslim prays, his ass faces the dom of th rock)... This cannot be corrected except by destroying it...



So if any of ths bothers you, as a westerner, tough luck. We live in a difficult age.
edit on 23-9-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 05:13 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


Politics are in no way connected to metaphysics..

Just.. Man, I told you how I felt about humanity. We all deserve to be happy, live with abundance, and there is no need to kill one another.

That concept is the very thing that blinds you from the truth.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 05:18 PM
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]


Examples of brainwashed Jewish peoples.
edit on 23-9-2011 by EvanJP because: (no reason given)



AND FINALLY, HOW I KNOW THINGS CAN AND SHOULD BE

Israeli soldier, Palestinian boy. Enjoy the truth, sorry that peace hurts so bad in your mind.

edit on 23-9-2011 by EvanJP because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by EvanJP
 





Politics are in no way connected to metaphysics..


Politics, in certain ways, is the shadow side of metaphysics.


A few points about your possesion of "logic"..

First, there is more to war then advanced guns, missiles, or airplanes. You also need manpower. This is still very relevant - even more so in 1948 then today. So, you are wrong to think that weapons is all Israel needs to win a war.

Also, did you have trouble reading that Israel couldnt get the necessary arms - guns, ammunition, etc, for their war against the Arabs? This is precisely the cause of the Altalena Affair. Basically, the Jewish agency - the labor party (then known as "haganah") sought permission from the Americans to transport Arms to Israel incase the Arabs attacked them. Back and forth the Irgun and Haganah argued. Eventually Ben Gurion gave the order and a ship was sent to get the arms. When the Arms finally came, Ben Gurion gave the order to open fire on the ship (and sabatoging their own security) killing 16 members of Irgun. Menachem Begin - then leader of Irgun told his men not to return fire.

This whole issue ocurred because Israel DID NOT HAVE THE GUNS/AMMO they needed for the war.

The Arabs conversely had the weapons the British left after WWII. They were stockpiled. They also outnumber Israel in men 2-1

It was actually a miracle - ie; it goes against logical probability - that Israel won.

The six day war was even more miraculous. Israel was outnumbere 3-1, 3-1 aircraft, 3-1 tanks. And still they win.



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