It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Can anyone debunk this Liberal claim thank you ?

page: 1
3
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 01:18 PM
link   
Can anyone debunk this Liberal claim thank you the Person is saying higher Income Tax creates a Incentive to create Jobs ?

Thom Hartmann: But it seemed, just common sense. I remember back in the ‘80s, I owned a business, International Wholesale Travel in Atlanta, Georgia. That business has, since we sold it done over 200 billion dollars in business. And there was a year when we were doing really, really well and I could either write a big check to myself or not. And I decided not to, because I didn’t want to pay the increased taxes. I put it back into the business. How can cutting taxes on rich people, on high income people, do anything other than encourage them to take the money out of their companies, out of their businesses, and buy fancy paintings or yachts or put it in Swiss bank accounts? How conceivably could that help the economy?

www.thomhartmann.com...




posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 01:26 PM
link   
To me, that statement doesnt make sense.

C corps pay a higher tax, than individuals do. So taking the money, would actually be financially beneficial to the owner.

S corps pay a tax equal to the individual. IE....leave it or take it out, you still pay tax based upon your rate of personal income.

So, I dont see it saving him money OR creating jobs.

On the other hand, if profits are "reinvested in the company", creating growth, THEN I could see it creating jobs, etc.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 01:29 PM
link   
If anyone even believes that bull***t, then they might believe that increasing taxes creates jobs.

$200 billion?


CUPERTINO, California—January 25, 2010—Apple® today announced financial results for its fiscal 2010 first quarter ended December 26, 2009. The Company posted revenue of $15.68 billion and a net quarterly profit of $3.38 billion...


So he is saying that he did as much business in the 1980s as Apple does in the past 5 or 6 years?? Not even adjusting for inflation.

What a steaming load of bravo sierra. See, liberals aren't above lying to get what they want.


BTW, just checked, International Wholesale Travel in Atlanta, Georgia had sales of $32million last year. If it was making $32million a year when he sold it (which I am sure it was not), it would have had to be in business for 6250 years to reach $200billion in sales.

Not only an outright lie, but a whopper.






edit on 23-9-2011 by AwakeinNM because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-9-2011 by AwakeinNM because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-9-2011 by AwakeinNM because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 01:32 PM
link   
reply to post by Howakan
 



On the other hand, if profits are "reinvested in the company", creating growth, THEN I could see it creating jobs, etc.


Thats exactly right. It is more of an an "Ethical" choice than hoarding it. By investing in your own company wisely, it will grow and you need more employees.

I think that its not completely true that higher taxes create jobs (it may help but not by much), but i do agree with Thom that the wealthiest in this country should pay their fair share. Not more not less, but "equal". The fact is they dont and thats what the big debate is now.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 01:36 PM
link   
never ever listen to "liberal claims" the only thing they know how to do right

is to destroy wealth and destroy jobs.

the proof is in the pudding
15 million unemployed
50 million on welfare
75 million on ss

trillions of jobs and wealth destruction.

raising taxes all it does is take out of the producers pockets and line governments with all those trillion the govrnment steals from us

where does it go?

**fix link page not found**
edit on 23-9-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 01:41 PM
link   
I don't think anything will work at this point...The wealthy and corporations are already given billions in tax breaks and subsidies and that doesn't seem to be creating jobs either. But it seems more than fair to me that they pay equal tax rates on ALL of their income. As it is now, they make most of their money off off investments and hedge funds, etc. and that is taxed at a much lower rate than money they actually earn. I don't think it has occurred to them that if they want us to give them money...They have to keep it going around in the form of jobs...If they hoard it all we don't have any to buy their goods/services.
edit on 9/23/2011 by ReluctantBlossom because: add



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 01:43 PM
link   
Ha. Page not found.

I love the tagline on his site:

"America's #1 Progressive Host & NY Times Bestselling Author"

That sounds like BS, too.

NEVER HEARD OF HIM.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 01:43 PM
link   
Openeye,

I think you mentioned that the rich do not pay their fair share. I'm sure it's been asked before but I missed the answer: What is their fair share?

For income taxes, I expect the answer would involve income levels and either amounts paid in or percentages. Would you please tell me, with numbers, what fair share means and how you know the rich aren't paying it?



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 01:47 PM
link   
reply to post by mikejohnson2006
 
I don't understand the premise.
It's their money. Taxes are an evil necessity. They should be given with the same enthusiasm as prostate exams. Anyone who looks forward to paying taxes and is enthusiastic about paying taxes probably looks forward to the above exam as well.




posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 01:47 PM
link   

Originally posted by charles1952
Openeye,

I think you mentioned that the rich do not pay their fair share. I'm sure it's been asked before but I missed the answer: What is their fair share?

For income taxes, I expect the answer would involve income levels and either amounts paid in or percentages. Would you please tell me, with numbers, what fair share means and how you know the rich aren't paying it?



Liberals would like to see millionaires left with about $15,000 of income a year, after taxes - like all the poor, poor souls who have crappy jobs because they preferred to blaze a bowl with their loser buddies behind the gym rather than attend class.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 01:59 PM
link   
reply to post by charles1952
 


15% across the board. I don't think its unreasonable.

ETS: Sorry didn't answer your full question. I'm not an economic expert, in fact I loath economics. But I work for a top fortune 500 company, and let me tell you they didn't pay that much in taxes, and what they did pay was given back in corporate welfare.


reply to post by AwakeinNM
 



Ha. Page not found.

I love the tagline on his site:

"America's #1 Progressive Host & NY Times Bestselling Author"

That sounds like BS, too.

NEVER HEARD OF HIM.


lol you probably are right, I never heard of him until I first saw his show online. While you may not like progressives Hartmann "can" be very balanced he always debates very intelligent conservatives and they reach a common ground quite a bit. He can be extreme sometimes, so much so I want to slap him in the face on occasion. I try to give all non MSM sources a chance even some of the far right. If you dont mind do you know of any conservative/libertarian commentators which are very good? Been looking for some but cant find a really good one.

edit on 23-9-2011 by Openeye because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 02:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by Openeye
reply to post by Howakan
 



On the other hand, if profits are "reinvested in the company", creating growth, THEN I could see it creating jobs, etc.


Thats exactly right. It is more of an an "Ethical" choice than hoarding it. By investing in your own company wisely, it will grow and you need more employees.

I think that its not completely true that higher taxes create jobs (it may help but not by much), but i do agree with Thom that the wealthiest in this country should pay their fair share. Not more not less, but "equal". The fact is they dont and thats what the big debate is now.


How is it ethical? It is that persons business. It is not owned by anyone else.
Higher taxes do not create jobs, as an increase in taxes, step to an increase in price of goods and services, thus stepping to an increase in price overall.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 02:10 PM
link   
Right now, the more you make the more you pay. Higher earners pay a higher percentage too. So how can you say the rich arent paying their share.

Someone who has worked hard and EARNED $300,000 will pay $105,000 in personal tax
Someone who only EARNED $30,000 will pay $4,500 in personal tax

and you say this isnt fair to the lower earner?.....spare me.....if we are all "equal", why is one person paying $100,000 more than another person?

free enterprise. American, where you have an equal opportunity to succeed or fail.

A flat 15% tax would mean that the higher earner only pays $45,000
and the lower earner continues to pay the same.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 02:12 PM
link   
reply to post by mikejohnson2006
 


If you own an LLC or C corp, you are able to pay yourself from the company's account as an
employee of sorts. Deciding how much to pay yourself is often times determined by the amount of
tax liability you will incur based upon the tax bracket you pay yourself into. Tax code allows people
how invest back in their business with plenty of write offs and incentives. Therefore it is often times
a much smarter idea to reinvest back into you company as opposed to paying a portion of that money
to the FEDS. Tax code is designed that way, allegedly to provide incentive for investment. In the 50's
I know people paid over 80% tax rate, there was also plenty of growth and a very strong economy
and middle class.

What this person is saying is true in that you can add much more value to your corporation by reinvesting
back into it, in the long run that is the strategy of the big boys.

You can read about the concepts here

www.overstock.com... eyword%7D

and even here

www.google.com... uzVBcHjiALp9dSLDg&ved=0CGEQ8wIwAQ#ps-sellers


Both great books that explain these simple business concepts clearly.



edit on 23-9-2011 by mastahunta because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 02:13 PM
link   
reply to post by mikejohnson2006
 


There is a theory that higher taxes on specific group does create jobs because corporations (usually targeted in this theory) will spend money on employees to lower the profit margin and thus owe less in taxes. That the Corp will rather invest in it's self than willingly hand over funds to the feds.

Same thing for wealthy investors and earners but honestly that gets way sketchy.

The downside is none of these theories have been tried in the past 20 years or so, we've only seen lowering of taxes. If you raised taxes on (anyone) now there is the higher probability they will simply leave.. that's the downside to a globalized World. Globalization only benefits the rich.

Raising income taxes on the lower and middle classes destroys jobs.

The other theory (which is another Liberal favorite) is that through taxation every job lost is created in the Government Bureaucracy. It's half true, except government is highly inefficient and leads to a negative loss on jobs, and in the long run is deathly dangerous for a nation.

In short: In no practical situation does taxing income create jobs without loosing more than is gained.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 02:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by charles1952
Openeye,

I think you mentioned that the rich do not pay their fair share. I'm sure it's been asked before but I missed the answer: What is their fair share?

For income taxes, I expect the answer would involve income levels and either amounts paid in or percentages. Would you please tell me, with numbers, what fair share means and how you know the rich aren't paying it?



Liberals would like to see millionaires left with about $15,000 of income a year, after taxes - like all the poor, poor souls who have crappy jobs because they preferred to blaze a bowl with their loser buddies behind the gym rather than attend class.


and in contrast, conservatives would like to see six people own 99% of America, because they
have real good lawyers, with real good contractual prowess.
edit on 23-9-2011 by mastahunta because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 02:19 PM
link   
reply to post by mastahunta
 


Hey hey, be nice now, a lot of True Conservatives hate Republicans...



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 02:20 PM
link   
reply to post by macman
 



How is it ethical? It is that persons business. It is not owned by anyone else. Higher taxes do not create jobs, as an increase in taxes, step to an increase in price of goods and services, thus stepping to an increase in price overall.


I never said higher taxes help a lot, I say they may increase it by a little but not enough to make an impact.

I also have a different opinion when it comes to classifying something as a "business" and a "corporation". I think small business and up and coming large businesses should not be put into the same category as the "corporation" that I work for. "Corporations" have a responsibility due to their effect on the economic stability of the world, they also have a responsibility to the mass amount of employees they have hired, to provide them with the adequate benefits and compensation that they deserve. When executives start hoarding the money, deceiving/stealing from their customers and employees, and subverting government that is when things need to change. And though we want to believe in a system of justice that would prevent this from happening, what happens is an out of court settlement which covers up the problem.

The "its all mine so screw everyone else" mentality is what has messed up the world since the beginning of civilization.
edit on 23-9-2011 by Openeye because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 02:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by mikejohnson2006
 


The downside is none of these theories have been tried in the past 20 years or so, we've only seen lowering of taxes. If you raised taxes on (anyone) now there is the higher probability they will simply leave.. that's the downside to a globalized World. Globalization only benefits the rich.



What you are missing, is that the demand here does not leave, if McDonalds left America's shores,
there would still be a demand for hamburgers. Market shares transfer, they do not disappear altogether.
In some cases, I would be happy to see the multinationals move away, tack on the logistical costs
which would let local producers into the game.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 02:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by mastahunta
 


Hey hey, be nice now, a lot of True Conservatives hate Republicans...


Sorry, I'm new and a lot of the things I am encountering here are alien to me, I like your
picture thing, that is awesome! No offense, I will get my head on straight here eventually.




top topics



 
3
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join