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What Survival is and isn’t.

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posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by DaddyBare
 


DaddyBare,

Thankyou for sharing.

I hope in the future we can all return to living off the land and lose our dependence on life's luxuries. I would rather spend my day hunting and looking after my own crops/land than participate in 'modern' life.

We compost and grow our own vegetables. We have the most awesome lemon tree that grows Grapefruit sized lemons.

I do hope the Hopi prophecies come true somewhat. I know it means bad things, but it seems more good will come of it.

Would our planet, at it's current population, be able to all go back to that way of living? I wouldn't think so. Population reduction might be a must.




posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 06:14 PM
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Star and a flag for you.

Many people who post in the survival section seem only interested in having the right weapon. A weapon is just a tool. You need a lot more tools in your tool box than 500 lbs of guns and ammo.

You need to prepare for a variety of situations.

If you're just preparing to go Rambo if TSHTF then good luck to you. Most likely some other Rambo will take you out.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 06:59 PM
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survival in this day and age would most likely mean scavenging what ever you could find in a post nuclear apocalypse, where the land, sea and air would be contaminated to such a degree that you could neither grow food, drink water or hunt or fish because of the danger of ingesting radioactive contaminated flesh.

you would need a map and a plan. that would probably mean travelling to south america and living in a refugee camp while waiting for your leaders to emerge from their bunkers to offer leadership.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 07:27 PM
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Very well written Daddy bear, but being a trained outdoorsman and being a survivalist are two very different things.

Let us not get all romantic and confuse communing with nature, living in the field, as we were created to do, with survival. It is not the same thing.

The skill set of a master outdoorsman will be of little use in a SHTF event and this is what the actual definition of being a survivalist is today.

There is a much larger population living the Urban and suburban life today than those who still live rural. Outdoorsman skill set to those masses will be useless in their time of need. To survive, these people will need a entirely different skill set than those of us who live rural.
Urban dwellers need to know how to survive in place because they will not be getting out of the cities. These skills are a world away from being an outdoorsman. The tools required for their survival is much different from the tools needed surviving in the field.

Survivalist does not mean outdoorsman.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 11:08 PM
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That might be correct for you but your statement is nonsense. Take a typical New Yorker for eg. Put them in the wild with four shells and a knife and they would die.

Do you can do al that stuff. Excellent. But it applies to you, not the masses.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by DaddyBare



First let me say I did not come to ATS for the survival section. Truth to be told my interests lay elsewhere… But I do have skill and training in this field… I have taught others to do the same with the Marines… for a time I worked as part of a Mountain rescue team… I grew up on a 150,000 acre ranch… was riding fence-lines when I was 12… as a child I often ran barefoot through the canyons and high mesa country of northern New Mexico… I was born wild

On last night’s radio show Semper brought up a valid point… Survival is not about going all Rambo on someone… Ask any one of the thousands of Vets here on ATS, they’ll set you straight… Combat is one thing…Survival is an entirely different subject … Skills for wilderness survival, like those for administering first aid… they are skills every outdoorsman/ solder hopes he will never have to use. But when they are needed, they are indispensable. At the risk of sounding dramatic, they may spell the difference between life and death…

If you ask me if I am a survivalist my answer is no… I am an outdoorsman, a country boy, a regular old Red Skin… simply put… I grew up in an environment where things like power and running water were luxuries… surely not necessary for daily life… it may surprise many of you to learn a large segment of the global human race lives quite happy, long, healthy, productive lives without ever seeing an electric light bulb, a TV, refrigerator or a car…

I’m one of those people…In my family when the lights go out… it is not a crises, it is an annoyance… Paying for water is also an annoyance when I can just as easily drive my own well... No food at home… means I probably have to shoot a couple of rabbits or squirrels on the way home from work… Maybe I have to butcher one of my hens…Picking some fresh veggies in the garden… that to me is not survival… to me that is every bit as normal as you picking up your cell phone, to text in a pizza order… Gaining these so called…”Survival Skills” is simply learning to do what humans have been doing for thousands of years… Live in the field for several months and you will know what a truly decadent pleasure a hot shower is… but you can live just fine without…

Survival has nothing to do with Combat… It is a fool who seeks out a firefight… especially if you’re dragging your own family along… Combat is about fear filth and utter madness… people doing their best to kill you… you struggling against your own demons and fears… responding on instinct and training… praying you get them before they get you… It’s the smell of combat I hate most of all… blood and bile… sharp and pungent… the screams when someone is hit, yours theirs it doesn’t matter… Real combat is not a movie or video game…nothing happens in slow motion… that comes later as you replay the horror in your mind again and again and again…. no sane man would seek it out on his own… and it has nothing to do with wilderness survival…

Where I come from we have a saying… a good hunter can feed his family for a year with only a handful of shells… but in a real firefight even 10,000 rounds might not be enough… When you can… it is far better to quietly slip away and live to fight another day…

Survival and outdoorsmenship is fun, communing with nature living as our ancestors did…honing your skill… that is not a hardship…

Real combat in not a game nothing to romanticize…

I now step off my soap box... lecture over... So get out there and have fun in the wild...I know I will



wow. dood. you sure use alot of words to say something very simple.

if you survive, you are alive.
if you dont survive, you are dead.

if you was asking me what my preference would be...i'm pretty sure i'd rather dead. or a flesh eating zombie. whichever comes first.

should you have any further questions, hit me up in my inbox.
edit on 23-9-2011 by lkpuede because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 12:20 AM
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I usually don't post in the survival section, but I just wanted to congratulate you on a great thread with valid points. I grew up around many of the things you mentioned, although not to the same extent, so at least I have many of those skills if push comes to shove.

I think for the majority of people, especially those accustomed to city life, the key to survival is going to be knowledge. I would advise not only acquiring, but reading survival literature, either buying books or printing off as much of the QUALITY material as possible. A good place to start is a military survival manual in my opinion, and they can be freely downloaded in pdf form from various places online.

I completely concur about firefight scenarios. I constantly see people posting about combat during a shtf scenario, but that should only be a last resort. It is much smarter to avoid anything that could potentially get you or one of your party members injured, because anyone who is injured instantly becomes a liability.

It may seem counter-intuitive, but in a firefight if the enemy is shooting to wound rather than kill, your situation could easily become much more dire as opposed to losing a party member. As horrifying as that may sound it is the truth. Wounded individuals will slow you down, make it much more difficult to escape other situations you may find yourself in, require care, attention, and aid, plus a number of other possibilities.

So the key is to stay below the radar. Avoid people at all costs, and don't venture away from what you know to be a safe-zone unless you must. Also, being able to change your mode of thinking is going to help quite a bit. The way society has conditioned most people to think and behave will no longer apply if the country or world has gone to poo. This doesn't mean you should go around with guns blazing, but it does mean that you cannot do what you would normally do and approach a person or group who looks friendly.

I think everyone gets what I am trying to say. Your thread was spot on regarding hunting as well. I would highly recommend that anyone serious about survival acquire a nice compound bow, or whatever type you like, and learn to use it effectively. Firearms are great and all, as long as you are proficient in using them, since most wildlife usually excel at avoiding being killed and eaten.

Another problem with firearms is the noise. Noise draws attention, and you will not want that. Especially the attention that would be drawn from you having to use 5 shots to bring down a deer. That is a waste of ammo, which will be pretty much priceless at that point, as well. That's why I suggest buying a bow. Don't forget to buy arrows as well. There are different types for different game, so some research may be required. I say stock up on multiple types so that you will be prepared to hunt anything.

Another thing that may draw attention to you and your group is fire. Be extra careful when starting a fire...Make it small and if it is very dry, like it is in Tx right now, don't burn down the entire forest.

The last thing I would like to mention, and hopefully this will help someone, is to start to make a list right now of the things you will need in a survival situation. You are bound to forget something if you attempt to prepare at the last minute. Murphy's law right? Don't overdo it though, since you will have to be carrying all that weight. Even if you plan on using a vehicle, you will find that you will probably have to abandon it early on, since all roads will become impassible. Traveling on foot also helps you avoid other groups of people. Just use your head, prepare yourself NOW.

If you cannot afford to stock up on survival supplies, get a little here and there. A bag of rice, etc, or whatever, but the most important thing is going to be training yourself by educating yourself. There is no excuse for not being mentally prepared since if you are reading this you have a plethora of information at your fingertips.



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 01:12 AM
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I never thought I would be the one chiming in to disagree with you, especially on a survival topic.

I brought this same issue up a year or so back in relation to militias. Essentially what I said, is that survival is comprised of multiple facets of the same stone. This includes militias, backwoodsmen, urban preppers etc.

Quite often people forget that survival can take one of two primary forms: fight or flight. This response come into play when someone feels their life, as they define life, is threatened. It can be both biological or conditional. I think the best simplified definition for survival or a survivalist as we discuss here is "someone having the skills and or mindset to live through a situation as it presents itself." That doesn't mean you must run from conflict or that you must engage in conflict. As long as conflict remains a possibility as a threat to survival, a true survivalist would develop the skills needed for that event.

You can say that every fish in the ocean wants to survive. Each develops their own method for survival. Some swim away fast, some camouflage themselves, some emit toxins, some inflate their bodies..the list goes on. The same for human survivalist.

So are the gung-ho Rambo wannabe's survivalist? Yes. In the end, it depends on if their lives, as they define them, continue in order to consider their tactic, skill and knowledge is successful. Same for the backwoodsmen. If something happens, Rambo takes his approach, Grizzly Adams takes his.... Both may survive. Both may die. Both, are survivalist.

I do, however, feel that it is the wrong approach to only get into one aspect of survival. I think the Rambo guy is seriously lacking in other important areas, just as much as the backwoodsman or urban prepper may be lacking.

I will say this, you can be the Rambo guy and not want to fight. Soldiers train, and many may even want to test themselves and their skills, but few will say that want to be fighting or in a war. The Rambo guy can also every-bit-as-much enjoy training, consider it fun and not a hardship, as the outdoorsman-survivalist can communing with nature living as our ancestors did.

edit: I hope this all came out coherent and didn't bounce around too much. I am just coming in from a 20 hour workday and had to get this out before turning in.


edit on 24-9-2011 by Wolf321 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 01:15 AM
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do i need night vision goggle for survival or is it just a really stupid idea?



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 01:46 AM
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Thank you. I wish more people understood this. My boyfriend is not one of those people... he's a "survival of the fittest" kind of guy. I've never understood it. If the situation calls for it, ok... but for some reason, when people think of survival, they only think of fighting other people. Instead of figuring out how to make a situation better for everyone. Sure, there is a level of "every man for himself"... but not entirely. Watch out for yourself and your family of course, but do what you can to fix the problem. The more people that pull together, the better and easier everyone survives.

Another thing that bothers me... why does "surviving" almost always mean running for the hills? Yes, there are many scenarios where leaving your home can be necessary... but why don't people remember that sometimes, staying home, when/if possible, is a very good plan? I know... it depends on the scenario... but I never hear of people saying "Well, when the SHTF, I'm going to hunker down and use my food storage." Nope, it's all "Head for the mountains, that's the only safe place!" Why? Why is that the only safe place?

Ok... that's my rant



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by DaddyBare
 


This was one of the best posts I've seen on here in awhile. I have read some of the posts from the Commando wannabes and it's honestly makes me a mix of angry, worried, and just sad for their ignorance. People with the mentality of "if the shtf I'm gonna start shootin!!!" are going to cause nothing but more problems for everyone around them. Well said OP.



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 02:18 AM
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Hi Daddybare...I get what you're saying completely about growing up in the country and living the lifestyle. Camping, fishing, spearing, building forts and picking wild berries, making snow forts and bringing candles in them for light and a little warmth; all those things taught me how to live in the outdoors. I spent my summers running around barefoot and swimming in the lakes and we always got kicked outside by the parents. We ate breakfast, came home to gobble up lunch and played 'till supper time, quick ate as fast as we could just to go back outside and play until dark. In the summer time we got to stay up as late as we wanted and could camp anywhere around in the nearby woods. It was perfectly normal to start our own campfires and sleep in sleeping bags without tents in the woods all summer long, when we were quite young. I remember being nine, ten years old and doing these things with the neighborhood kids. But those were different times and I cannot for a minute imagine letting my eleven year old daughter do that. Why? I've had this fear ingrained in me from society I suppose, due to all the bad things we here about on the news constantly.

I think back on that kind of freedom I had and smile. We lived on a lake and the old farmer at the end of the dirt road owned all the land around us and had dairy cows. We used to walk on the cow paths along the shore and spear carp in the morning and bury them in the garden spot for fertilizer. In the woods next to the lake between our house and his were Indian mounds, from the Isanti (Santee) Indians I believe, and we would go up to them at midnight and sit on top of the mounds and scare the dickens out of each other...
The old farmer had an amazing collection of arrowheads he collected over the years from farming the fields and he kept them in a glass enclosed case and had them hanging on his wall. I'll never forget him, Russ was his name. He was born on that farm and was a bachelor for many, many years and married later in life, only to lose his wife after a couple of years. He had no children and left everything to a niece who sold all the land and made a ton of money. Fortunately, the farm and land the Indian mounds are on are still intact. The farm is being rented out and it's the original farmhouse. I can only assume the owner knows about the mounds and respects that they are there.

Across the road from the farm there was an old fashioned schoolhouse which later became the township hall where the grownups would go to vote. That eventually burned down but every time I drive down that road back home to visit my mom I still see it in my mind's eyes. The old washboard dirt road is now paved and there are no longer all the wildflowers in the ditches that I used to pick and bring home to my mom to put in vases. Though I'm sure the poison ivy's still there, that I used to break out from every summer from head to toe...fun memories. I agree with you that growing up in that way is part of surviving and it's not about how many guns and how much ammo you have in your safe. It's a mindset, it's part spiritual I think even, and of course common sense learned goes a long way.




posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 02:27 AM
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reply to post by DaddyBare
 


Sounds like your looking for a date. Good luck.



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 03:47 AM
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I grew up in a house that had electricity but no running water. When the power went out, my mother would get out the old hurricane lamps and we'd have light. When I was 12 my grandfather started taking me out to check his trap lines. He trapped muskrat mainly. He told me that if I learned how to trap, I'd never go hungry. He was right. Later on in life my friends and I used to go winter camping. The Adirondacks are beautiful in the summer, just as beautiful in winter, minus all the people. What I worry about if society were to break down, are outsiders coming here. Maybe the answer is to move deeper into the woods. My step father says I remind him of the way people used to do things 100 years ago. I always tell him I had a good teacher, my grand father. I pray to our creator Son-kwa-ia-ti-son, that when the time comes I'll be ready.



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 04:13 AM
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Man I have been saying the same thing time and again here on all thous post by people talking about how they have all thous guns wanting to kill every thing in site .
Not having a clue as to just how many people will just walk right over them. People that live way way out are the ones who stand the best chance people who run away live to well run away another day.
yes you fight if you must but RARLY is it ever the MUST.



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 04:27 AM
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Originally posted by DaddyBare
a good hunter can feed his family for a year with only a handful of shells… but in a real firefight even 10,000 rounds might not be enough…


Bad aim, thick armor. Sounds like you've had some epic battles.



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 05:18 AM
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Imagine this scenario:

- you live in a house with two rooms, thin walls, doors and windows that are not fit in their frames, so the winter breeze is constantly blowing inside;
- there is no running water; you have to take it from a well outside; sometimes the temperature is dropping so low that you have to break the ice first;
- there is no gas heat; you rely on a glazed tile stove to heat the house and the wood you're chopping during summer;
- during winter, you have to wake up twice every night to add more wood on the stove, otherwise you'd wake up in a refrigerator;
- there is no power; you have to use oil lamps;
- the toilet is outside: a small wooden cabin so if you need to go number one or worst, number two during the night and it's wintertime, you have to go outside on a temperature often lower than -20 degrees Celsius; no need to say what is the effect on your "personal stuff"...
- you have to wash in a small tub and if you want hot water, you have to prepare it yourself;
- your kids have to walk 7-8 miles every morning to school, no matter if it's raining, or if there's a powerful blizzard, or such a cold that if you spit, it's freezing solid before reaching the ground;
- you have to bake your own bread because there isn't a store you can buy it from;
- there is no doctor on a 60 miles radius, so if you get sick... well, tough luck, right?
- during winter, all the roads are blocked with 4-6 feet of snow and the local authorities aren't giving a damn about it; you have to clear them yourself;

... I could continue the list but I'm sure you have enough imagination to extrapolate a little, starting from the things above.

Sounds a bit creepy? Well then, imagine yourself doing these every freakin' day of your life. How does it sounds NOW?
And you know what? It's not a campfire story, it's reality.
In my country, there are countless of small villages in the mountains where the people are living exactly like this.
Hunting?? Are you kidding me? A decent rifle cost here around 800 bucks and you can't hold one unless you have a permit and paying at least 100 bucks monthly to the freakin' state... These people are worth no more than 100 bucks every month, you see...?
Why don't they move in a city, you ask? Why don't they improve their homes with modern materials instead of clay and God knows what else? Well, they would love to, but they have no financial power to do it. Why? Because the bloody government is constantly ignoring them, that's why; nobody would hire them because no one needs them.

Survival? It's SO damn easy to pose as a big expert when you CHOOSE to live like that but you know that if want to go back in civilization, you only have to drive to it.

These people have NO ESCAPE from this.
edit on 24-9-2011 by shansen because: correction

edit on 24-9-2011 by shansen because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 06:02 AM
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reply to post by DaddyBare
 


I like what you wrote. I am glad you wrote it out this way for people to
remember, we don't need calculus, or degrees in anything. What people
are being deprived of is knowing how to live without conveniences like fast
food and instant well, everything. If Society went back to teaching human
beings the basics of survival, i feel that humanity would respect one another
much better, and truly care for living things the way they should here. We live
in a plastic reality and it's become a very sad place to exist. People depend far
too much on 'things' rather than knowing how to fend for themselves and their
families. It won't get better until humanity wakes up.



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 06:12 AM
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Well said as always..
Am one of the few here that what most think of as "survival skills" are just everyday living skills get what need from my garden, fishing and the jungle no aircon no roads no pain in the arse busybodies for neighbors out here .. Dont need all the "comforts" of "civilisation" to have a good life.



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 06:59 AM
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Over in the states is a less crowded place than here in UK. There are not animals to hunt or trap nor much woods to walk in . There are miles of bare open fields however , growing the usual combinables , in between the roads villages towns and cities .

Edible plants are becoming rare bar blackberries and other autumn fruits , though i only read yesterday the american indians used the growing tips of blackberries as vegetables .

What survival is and is not in this country is surrviving what you may have the luxury of turning away from in america : people .

Op you had a close call . People draughted you and sent you down to the slaughter . You came back from the blood and bile . You survived a near death experience that people called you to .

Everyday is a struggle for survival for me > mainly against the pre-judgements of others . To be bound in a wheelchair , looked down on , ignored and turned away from > while nothing but assumptions fill their heads >
when they enforce their feelings on you as if they were fact . Try and survive that . You cannot get away from them . Everyday is more . How hardened a personality do you need to be ?

Your country wants you , Uncle Sam says so , get down to work before there is any welfare , lost in a concrete jungle , money for #e in shops , its a constant struggle . If they dont want to enforce they want to take away .
If they are finished assuming they then want to judge .

What then of what survival is or not ? Its not living in the outdoors , that is easy . When you have no land of your own in the UK you cannot escape them . You're on someone else's property and under someone else's direction wherever you go.

Survival is taking advantage of small mercies in sometimes terribly hard situations . Fortunately I have got quite good at that , though you never know when another attack is on its way .



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