Logic Hinders Creativity & Vice Versa?

I don't usually post in this forum but after some philosophical thoughts last night as I was trying to get to sleep I thought I'd break the ice today.

Obviously creativity has helped get us where it has today, it has been a vital aspect of our social and technological development as a species. Anything manufactured around you has had some form of creative input at some point. When we were nomads we had to be creative to be one step ahead, creating new tools and methodology to find and hunt food.

And I'm assuming that real logic that we know today was spawned from the growth of knowledge way after we were nomads? Possibly really kicking off when we started getting to grips with science.

Now if you throw logic into the equation I believe you get some very interesting results, even clashes. You see in using logic you look for the most reasonable or sensible answer to whatever problem/issue you are facing. This in itself is fine, logic is good for the most part especially when it comes to not making mistakes and saving time. The problem I see is that too much logic may and probably does hinder creativity. I shall elaborate.

Creativity does not behave like logic at all. Creativity relies on new inventive ideas that often take a LOT of illogical thought process to accomplish. You have to sift through the crap so to speak. You have to let your brain run different trains of thought than what is usual, you have to be more flexible in your thinking whereas it seems logical thinking requires more rigid train of thought. If you look at famously smart people then look at famously creative people they usually seem to be mostly one or the other, for the most part. I believe this may be because an excess of either train of thought may hinder the other train of thought.

A very logical person seems quite comfortable in their own sensible train of thought and it seems as though anything slightly wacky or eccentric they deter from. Creativity seems to have roles in which eccentricity and non logical thought play important roles. Extremely Creative people tend to delve out of logical thought and explore the unknown whereas logical people tend to rigidly stick to what is already known or proven or whatever and wild thought processes seem to make them uncomfortable? And vice versa? I am a very creative person and extreme logic definitely makes me feel uncomfortable, it sounds stupid but it does.

Now I'm not saying that you have to be one or the other! But I think that as soon as you delve your life mostly into one of these traits then the other trait seems to start slipping away.

What do you reckon?

Babble over.

Logic lay in the realm of relativity, what is logical to yourself is not logical to another, due to perspective, hence many people seeing different things while looking at an abstract painting. Their logical mind tries to make sense of it, and forms patterns in the seemingly illogical. If one looks at the world on a whole it's the same as the painting, your view point is just trying to make logical sense of what you experience.

Hence logic and creativity coexist when trying to make sense of any problem, those that do not go with the tried and true get labels such as eccentric or crazy etc. until the majority can see the picture they are trying to paint then it's genius.

reply to post by Darkchemistry


They definitely coexist but would you not agree that extreme forms of either may hinder the process of the other?

I don't believe that logic will hinder creativity. What will we say, Euler, Gauss, and Godel had decreased creativity? These men were highly creative and in fact in the most logical of all branches, mathematics, the only fuel for progress is creativity. Ask any mathematician how they arrived at their core idea for a proof and i suspect most will say via a flash of insight.

Creativity, without constraints (logic) is not possible. Tell someone to create something, anything, and they will have a hard time unless they are able to decrease the number of possible results with constraints. A man needs to know what his goal is and the problems that stand in his way before he can apply creativity to solve those problems.

A painting is creative. Even if it is just a painting for a 2 year old. But what makes a painting highly creative? I would argue that its precisely the (logic) the artist has absorbed that constrains the possible output of the painting that makes it 'creative'. After all, a painting from a 2 year old is not likely to be creative, but instead, random.

reply to post by TechUnique


the headline is right on the money, i've experienced it for myself and i don't like it. the story:

my creative imagination has always been my strongest skill set. over the years i've delved into a plethora of hobbies and interests that allow me to express my creativity. along the way i've written seven books and thousands of poems.

long ago i was employed at a medical x-ray film company. they had an extensive line of automatic film processing equipment, from small low volume units used by vets and at doc-in-the-box clinics up to massive machines that docked to auto film handlers which replaced several dark room employees, identifying film/cassette style and type as it sent the film to be processed in seconds and reloaded the cassette for the next use. high volume machines wold be found in large inner-city hospitals, clinics and institutions as well as in research. there was other wonderful equipment too, lazer goodies, robbie the robot gadgets, computer/virtual workstations, on and on.

a lot of the most expensive equipment would be installed at no charge for major film accounts. the money was in the film. the film was the consumable.

each piece of equipment had pre-install, install, operation, maintenance/repair and illustrated parts manuals. there was also a lot of specialty 'kits' for modifications and such. this was a Japanese company and they supplied the American subsidiary with a few sets of prototype manuals for each product.

there was a lot of information and understanding lost in the translation of the manuals from Japanese to English. each manual had to be reworked front to back before they could go to the local printer for bulk reproduction.

re-writing manuals and preparing modification instructions was a miserable task.

creativity, imagination, storyline, plot, any aspect of personality went out the window when i had to work with these projects. it was all cut and dry, step-by-step, cold how-to logic. simply horrible. i had to abandon all i knew and loved of writing to adapt to a new discipline. it forced me to stifle a part of my being that i enjoyed immensely. it turned something i loved into a cold unfeeling chore that i quickly grew to loathe deeply.

i did learn. i did not enjoy. but work is work, i was not there for fun, i was there to earn a paycheck. and that is how i know first hand how logic hinders creativity.

^^
Are you saying you did not make one single change? That you were a robot on an assembly line? For that you need neither creativity or logic just controlled movement for repetitive tasks. Which wasn't void of both, you had to move logically and the creative side of your mind that comes from emotions created the loathing, both were at work unless, you moved as one with no mind, as in an autonomic response to a need. Which I doubt since emotions were involved possibly creating all sorts of mental fantasy. Yes?

Hmm from posting something else, it made something spark for this post...Logic...IF, THEN, ELSE. So which of the logic statements actually lack the capacity for creativity? IF, is open its creative possibilities for a statement are infinite. THEN adds on to the IF that we chose breeding more creativity, IF not Then, Else. The possibility for a change to that creativity that makes it more adaptive and flexible. Looking at it this way Logic is the function of creativity itself.

Double Post

Its seems to me that the two should go hand in hand

Creativity= the means by which we can know the end

Logic= the means by which the end is accomplished

Both are require for productive thought or action

Apparently Logic does not hinder over verbalization regarding the subject.....JeeezzzzusC

I mean come on! Yes, I agree that the logical type hinder the creative types...., but we all must get along...LOL!

reply to post by TechUnique


in your post you used logic and creativity

those tools are needed to create anything.

so it's like me saying my screwdriver hinders my pliers when taking my car apart.. you kinda need both...

If you didn't understand what I was saying....Geez you guys are long winded...have you ever heard of the saying...

Do not say in many words which you can say in a little...

As in...One that speaks so much, knows nothing, one that speaks little knows everything....

Trim it down...understand what you are speaking and present it within little words!

Originally posted by Darkchemistry
^^
Are you saying you did not make one single change? That you were a robot on an assembly line? For that you need neither creativity or logic just controlled movement for repetitive tasks. Which wasn't void of both, you had to move logically and the creative side of your mind that comes from emotions created the loathing, both were at work unless, you moved as one with no mind, as in an autonomic response to a need. Which I doubt since emotions were involved possibly creating all sorts of mental fantasy. Yes?

edit on 23-9-2011 by Darkchemistry because: Spelling error

FYI: to Reply to a post click 'Reply' / to copy and reply to a post click 'Quote'.

1. no
2. no
3. point taken. you're right. technical writing does require creativity, thought & logic. being of a step-by-step discipline, it merely requires a different form of creativity. and more use of cold logic than i was used to, by far. the task demanded creativity in writing i am comfortable and most familiar with had to be minimized. the emotions experienced were discomfort, unhappiness and frustration - negative emotions mostly, borne of the difficulty of undertaking a new task. fantasy was void.

thank you for pointing that out to me

Originally posted by blazenresearcher
If you didn't understand what I was saying....Geez you guys are long winded...have you ever heard of the saying...

Do not say in many words which you can say in a little...

As in...One that speaks so much, knows nothing, one that speaks little knows everything....

Trim it down...understand what you are speaking and present it within little words!

a short attention span and little patience is not a license to be rude. brief enough?

Originally posted by yaluk
reply to post by TechUnique

 

in your post you used logic and creativity

those tools are needed to create anything.

so it's like me saying my screwdriver hinders my pliers when taking my car apart.. you kinda need both...

Did you not get the part where I said extreme logic or extreme creativity?
I made that point a few times smart guy.

reply to post by TechUnique


Logic and intuition (the logic of the subconscious) are the two sharp edges of the same, dual sided blade, imo. If the blades purpose is to cut through irrationality, both sides of it must be honed and sharpened, and used with great knowledge. Each alternating edge should be swung with the intention of most impact, while at the same time positioning the blade to strike with the opposite side next swing. In this way the sharp edges of the blade are mutually reinforcing and not in conflict, or out of balance with one another. This balanced attack, or approach, makes full use of the tool employed to succeed in slaying the beast of ignorance and irrationality.

So ya, if one side of your tool is dull and cracked and the other is sharp and precise, the blade my still break and become ineffective, and even if it doesnt, youre still connecting in an effective way with only half of your hits.

imo anyways.

In a real world example: Einstein dreamed up relativity in a flash of inspiration, and later codified said inspiration via logic.

E = MC2 is the synthesis of explosive and profound inspiration with the systematic and logical proof of mathematics.