20 Valid Arguments that God Exists

Wow man, me thinks you have drinkith to much of the koolaid.

reply to post by imawlinn


LOL. I know we're on opposing sides of this, but that's funny!

For every 20 (so called) valid arguments that a god exists there are 10 fold that god dont!!!!!!!!!!!!

My god sheeple are pretty deluded crutch nut jobs!

Wake up and join the realms of reality!

Get a better life thats not predicated on nonsense! Free yourself from the blind faith shackles!

I don't feel you can believe in one or the other fully. Maybe it's a combination of both. On a lighter note If there is a god could he make an object so heavy not even he can lift it?

Originally posted by buskey
My favorite view on religion from the Roman philosopher Seneca:

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.”

My second favorite from a lesser known philosopher, Dave Barry:

“The problem with writing about religion is that you run the risk of offending sincerely religious people, and then they come after you with machetes.”

Worldly wise, spiritually foolish.

Originally posted by Pauligirl

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by Pauligirl

Originally posted by MitchL61

Your right. I should have elaborated more. The argument that I found most intriguing was Pascals Wager. He basically argues that if you wager that God does exist, and you live your life accordingly, then you will have gained eternal life. But if you wager that God does not exist, and He does, then you will be damned eternally. So, basically you have everything to gain, and nothing to lose.

And what if you spend your entire life worshiping the wrong god?"

Then at least you tried choosing a God and have the possibility of eternal life. If you have not tried you've wasted that possibility.

But I wouldn't mean it so what would be the point? The whole god(s)/religion thing is just weird to me. If it works for you, that's lovely.

You wanted to know how the wager still applies even with differing religions and I obliged. Unless people seek God before dying they will be utterly destroyed. It still makes more sense to at least seek out God rather than ignoring the warning altogether.

You wanted to know how the wager still applies even with differing religions and I obliged. Unless people seek God before dying they will be utterly destroyed. It still makes more sense to at least seek out God rather than ignoring the warning altogether.

reply to post by 547000


Great comment! Star for you.

reply to post by vjr1113


What if all religions are attempting to describe the same god?
That would make this whole scenario a lot easier.

(:

When you say God exists do you mean in an anthropomorphic sense?

God doesn't exist in your mind frame....but God does exist in a more existential way...as in "exist"..it really is a nature thing...also a intertwining relationship between the Cosmos, Nature and Humans. What is Human is the question that you really should ask.

I found some interesting responses to the list you provided. I suggest that you read them with an open mind yourself.

www.asktheatheists.com...

A starting point for me was the cosmological argument. It goes like this...

1. Whatever begins to exist, has a cause of its existence.
2. The universe began to exist.
3. Therefore, the universe has a cause of its existence.

It's pretty simply and of course that in itself does not "prove" God's existence, but it's a starting point. The counter argument for this is the argument that the universe is eternal. But that has problems because eternity and infinite are only conceptual ideas in the time-space-matter-energy construct of which we live in. There would have to be an infinite number of successive events prior to this very moment, which would be impossible.

Another way to put it is, this...
No matter how you break down matter, no matter how you divide it, matter itself does not give us why or how it got there. Just that it's there. Therefore, there must be a non-physical agent. There are two possibilities to answering this. One, that God did it. Two, we don't know (which is honest). But to say there is no God would be false because we exist. That would only be accurate if we didn't exist. The only thing that comes form nothing is nothing.

Double slit experiment.

This shows the need for an observer.
For reality to exist, the wave must collapse and this is due to a " cosmic observer" which would be, "God".

Now this isnt the bearded guy sitting on a throne in the clouds that most people want to believe in,.. who will answer prayers for a new Volvo... but it does show an acceptable scientific theory for the existence of a " Grand Observer" which allowed the wave to collapse into our reality...which fits the bill of "God".

Philosophical arguments for or against the existence of God will ever remain inconclusive because "words are wise men's playthings" (Thomas Hobbs).

If you want to study HARD evidence for God's existence (and I mean hard in the intellectual sense as well, because it would challenge even someone with a degree in mathematics), then the research at:
smphillips.8m.com...
will provide you with the best evidence that has ever been assembled. What you will find there is mind-blowing because it reveals in rigorous terms the meeting point of religion and science. Unlike philosophical arguments, mathematical truths are undebatable.

Originally posted by BadNinja68
Double slit experiment.

This shows the need for an observer.
For reality to exist, the wave must collapse and this is due to a " cosmic observer" which would be, "God".

On the contrary, this DISPROVES God.
If he really existed, then he would always observe every particle, and we (humans) would never notice any difference between experiments where there was a human observer or not. Because there would always be an observer.
But we do notice the difference.
Thus, there is NO observer all the time.
Thus, there is no God.

reply to post by MitchL61


"How can you Notice the stick in your friends eye but not notice the log in your own?" - Jesus

Very few people are capable of enlightenment or the capacity to even indulge any ideas related to true enlightenment. My entire belief system should deposit be into a job to be a drone fantasizing about beautiful women and financial freedom like the rest of the western world. However, I have a massive natural tendency to think about everything I am doing and where I am going as a person. I think about everything in every potential career and I have come to understand that "I" isn't capable of being truly happy. It would be self defeating and as I come to understand this the more I look around and gain a true compassion for every living being and every type of person from all walks of life. Then I understand what Karma is and why is simply the statement of actually being here. "I" can't understand why it is here because it is an expression and was always supposed to be. I think that most of our true development seems stunted by our society's inability to allow the dark aspects of our personalities to become apparent thus manifesting real problems to solve. For deeper understandings refer to the Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu, Mahayana Buddhism. Dogen the zen master and different types of zen. I don't subscribe to any specific belief as a standing on my mind I treat all idea's like a smorg. I have a strong belief that the real problem with thinking has to do with a mechanisms called "Boxing idea's" that seems to be some sort of psychological safety.

I hope someday soon that I could build the strength in myself to just leave for 1 month into the wild and find enlightenment. However I chose to stay here and be with my kids and girlfriend to take care of my family, and to try and pass on my understandings to them and perhaps gain insights by their observations which sometimes open my mind even more lol. Family life is amazing!

If god is real and he created us like himself then the dude really needs to get on some meds .
The dude who singled handed committed genocide and almost extinction as well,
How many culters and country s were totally destroyed with his flood how many people ((children baby's were killed?
And before that totaly destroyed two citys nagain with his own hand and again killing baby's and children.

The problem is that there isn't any clear definition for the existence of God. Therefore, if you were to try to demonstrate his existence, it would be based on your own definition alone. Now, on the other hand, there are people who claim to say that God is undefinable and not restricted to categorical descriptions. However, if this is true, then the person claiming this, claims that he understands the nature of God because he has assigned God as uncategorical or undefinable. A logical contradiction.

The universe displays a staggering amount of intelligibility, both within the things we observe and in the way these things relate to others outside themselves. That is to say: the way they exist and coexist display an intricately beautiful order and regularity that can fill even the most casual observer with wonder. It is the norm in nature for many different beings to work together to produce the same valuable end—for example, the organs in the body work for our life and health.
1.Either this intelligible order is the product of chance or of intelligent design.
2.Not chance.
3.Therefore the universe is the product of intelligent design.
4.Design comes only from a mind, a designer.
5.Therefore the universe is the product of an intelligent Designer.

Even though this is an interesting interpretation, it is still just that—an interpretation. I don't agree with any of it but that is of course my opinion. I don't agree that the universe displays “staggering amounts of intelligent design”, I would think that chaos is displayed more prominently. Could it be if “the universe is a product of intelligent design” and intelligent design is the product of humans, and humans have minds and are designers, therefore the universe is the product of us?

This, no matter how crazy it sounds, is just as valid as the ones he's made.

reply to post by MitchL61


Good post OP S&F!

Do people not realise you can believe in a creator without believing in any particular faith?
This poster has given us 20 reasons that God exists that still puzzle some of the greatest open minded minds.

Questions like how can something come from nothing are very relevant and get just brushed off.
Think outside the square and realise the existance of a creator is something that cant easily be debunked because all the basics of science point to something having to have started all this.
Call it the big bang if you like, but that didnt come out of nowhere and neither did whatever was before that... Well who created God you say? Well what is the most basic state of our reality - energy - it just always exist's call it God call it energy call it jesus, mohammad or chubaka - it is what it is, we are all from it and all part of it.

-Telling someone their belief in that energy is false when no one understands it's true properties and complexity of that energy is not denying ignorance.

-Telling someone their belief in that energy is false when no one understands this reality which modern science indicates is one of multiple alternative realities - where the laws of the reality could be totally different when you have no way of knowing is not denying ignorance.

- Picking on religion everytime there arguments for the existance of a creator are presented is not denying ignorance.