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Israel - What is the tie that binds?

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posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 11:39 PM
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I consider myself a not unintelligent person, I would even go as far as to call myself more intelligent than many others on a great many subjects, but one area which to this day eludes me is the United States bind to the country of Israel. Is it that we are a largely a God fearing nation and Israel is Gods chosen people? Surely that cannot be it. Why in complete circumvention of the mandates in the Constitution are we bound to this Country thousands of miles away which any thinking person could easily call an entanglement with a foreign nation. I am certainly not against having friends around the world, engaging in commerce and trade which is the extent of my foreign policy personally, and it is a view that I believe is properly espoused in the Constitution.

ATS I am calling on your combined intelligence. Please help me understand our tie to this little country which has on numerous occasions engaged in the slaughter of their neighboring Palestinians. I personally saw a news report in which an Israeli excavator ran over unarmed individuals on Palestinian land defending their tree grove. I believe another countries dealings with its neighbors who don't always see eye to eye is soely the business of that country. I do not support military alliances with foreign countries against that countries foes or for its common defense. We have enough trouble handling our own business let alone being there for everyone who gets into a disagreement with their neighbors.

Please ATS help me understand this alliance both Pro and Con and why is it just not simply wrong according to our Constitution to be so closely alligned to a foreign country. I have many times been thoroughly impressed with the collective intelligence in this forum and I hope you would consider accepting this challenge which I leverage to you now. I thank you in advance for your responses in aiding me in better understanding this very confusing subject.
edit on 22-9-2011 by WWJFKD because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-9-2011 by WWJFKD because: lack of intelligence




posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 11:47 PM
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reply to post by WWJFKD
 


Rothchilds family and it's vast network of banks and money takers and poltical insiders.
Use whatever means to take control and power of governments. Loan money to all sides in wars, start wars and keep them going.
Play upon the emotions and fears of people who believe the Abrahamic religions that teach that Israel must become a nation again so that whatever messiah person is to come will destroy (place enemy's name here) and all will be well with a one world government

Tha'ts a start, I suppose.



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 11:58 PM
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reply to post by WWJFKD
 


Good thread, hopefully this will stimulate much discussion. I wondered this for a considerable period myself.... what is this relationship between the United States and this country, Israel, 1000's of miles away in the Middle East? Israel offers nothing to the defense of US shores, if anything the conflicts in the Middle East involving Israel drags us deeper in debt and it costs our soldiers. Initially I assumed this tie between both countries was at core about religion, but over the years I've come to doubt that this is anything to do with religion to the United States and the United Kingdom goverments, among other countries involved. Religion is just a cover to maintain some sort of public support. Israel, from what I find, is used as a buffer of somekind for the west. In my opinion, I think Israel with it's nuclear weapons keeps the other Middle Eastern countries in line, for the most part atleast. Israel being there also assists and strengthens the profitable military industrial complex in that region.

I don't believe for one bit that there is any justification for us to be there, there is absolutely no reason for us to send billions of aid to this country, or atleast continue to. So called conservatives and even some liberals who state they support it might as well take responsibility for this economic mess and broken government as well, because their support of Israel aid is drowning this country. Israel has no real justification to be there in the first place, Israelis just settled there initially purely on religion. Likewise though, Israel took the land (they took it back as they'd put it, religiously speaking) away from those who settled on that land for sometime, and turned that land into a purely Jewish state. We can't change that, but we need to change our continued support and funding to them, because that country offers little back, and we're risking american lives over a conflict that need not involve us.

Alot of folks say they support Israel and that those who criticize Israel and this support is either anti-semetic, or ignorant of history. I don't give a damn if you support Israel, it just shouldn't be at my expense and my tax payer money. The American tax payer should not be dragged into maintaing a state and a conflict that does nothing but cost this country, and has nothing to do with us. There is no justification what so ever to continue supporting them like this, to continue these ties. I don't mind a peaceful diplomatic tie, and a move to peaceful negotians between Israel and other countries in the Middle East, but not this....



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 12:15 AM
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If there was a course to teach the students the history of the middle east from 1913 onward the picture would be so clear. Who owns Israel? Rothschild. Who killed and maimed to usurp the Palestinians [Cannanites?] DUH!
Zionists are the children of the dark.America has a large percentage of Zionist supporters and controllers , strangely related to the old Nazi regime. Please do some research . I have and It blew the top of my head off.
Once you unravel the ball of yarns you find out what , who, and why all of this happened.
A teaser: The ptb agenda is the subjugation of the African continent. It is starting. The little ones first as they have to negotiate for foreign colonies. So the advance of world domination is going nuts as the money for troops does not exist and has to be created out of thin air. The fact that people of the same race will not kill each other , It's divide and conquer. So people of the world wake up to the reality . I'ts either fight or die . There are NO solutions for greed or power.
Namaste



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 12:24 AM
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reply to post by WWJFKD
 


en.wikipedia.org...

The Western toe hold in the resource rich Middle East. This is the tie that binds.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 12:26 AM
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I want to thank the contributors of these initial responses, this is indicative of the intelligence that I have become accustomed to here in the ATS forums. SG thankyou, we have not always seen eye to eye but I am glad we can put that behind us for the good of the topic.

I would like to add as an encouragement to those would be posters. I am not judging right and wrong viewpoints here and I encourage others to join me in this. I simply want to engage in spirited debate within the guidelines of ATS T & C and attempt to reach a consensus on just what is this overwhelmingly accepted tie to Israel. I would also encourage our friends in Israel to reply. Do you support this alliance, why or why not?

This is a hot button topic as evidenced by this evenings GOP debate and I would like to know why a candidates support of Israel or lack thereof should be seen as a good thing. The only caution I would add to those participating is try to keep the facts straight. Gut feelings fine but mistruths and inaccuracies will be routed out and I will support that insomuch that it does not totally derail the thread away from the topic at hand. Thank you again in advance for your responses.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 01:38 AM
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reply to post by WWJFKD
 

Israel is an outpost of Western civilization in the middle of the Islamic world. The civilizational affinity alone is enough to make an alliance very attractive. Their population is educated and productive. They've produced nine Nobel laureates. On a per capita basis, that's better than the US. The country has a modern legal system and property rights, making it attractive for foreign businesses, like Intel and Microsoft. (You've probably used a CPU designed in Israel.) They're the kind of people you want as friends.

Militarily, we recognize common threats, and Israel has historically been ahead of us in some ways. They've been fighting an asymmetric enemy for a long time. They hunted down the Munich killers years before we developed the military capability to do so. (All we had was the CIA and their hare-brained plausibly deniable schemes to kill Castro.) They did the Entebbe raid before we had a military unit for hostage rescue. They recognized the threat of a nuclear Iraq while we were still trying to seduce Saddam Hussein. They are useful allies.

Strategically, it's good to have a strong ally in the Middle East. We're pretty tight with some of the Gulf states and Saudi Arabia, but as we saw in Egypt, regimes can change overnight. And there are forces working to change those regimes. Iraq is slowly slipping into Iran's orbit. Iran still wants us to die. I guess we're okay with Jordan since we put their king on Star Trek, but Jordan isn't exactly contributing as much as Israel. Although we can't use Israel as a direct proxy, it's good to have them as a balance against the the Arab states and their tenuous stability.

What could we possibly gain by giving up Israel? Friendship with the Islamist states? Worthless. They are behind technologically, legally, and socially. Our intercourse with them would be limited to selling them weapons and buying their oil. Getting terrorists off our backs? Not likely--as long as we sell weapons to and buy oil from the Arab regimes, we will be a target of terrorists. Being respected by the rest of the world? That and $5 will get you a venti mocha. And once the world's antizionist joy wears off, they'll realize we just cut loose one of our closest allies, and re-evaluate their own agreements with us. Human rights? Hezbollah, Hamas, and others will push Israel into the sea. They already target civilians, you know they'll dial it up to 11 given half the chance. Regional stability? Hamas still hates Fatah, Iran still wants Iraq, Lebanon is still infected with terrorists, half the Arab states are in or near revolution, Egypt doesn't know what it's doing, Libya is in flux, Afghanistan is in their forever civil war, Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula is still trying to overthrow every Arabian government it can... None of this would be improved by losing Israel as an ally. Losing Israel would put us in a worse position, put the Israelis in an untenable position, and only put a few Palestinian office-holders in a better position.

So, that's that. Israel is a pretty cool little country, and of the million things going wrong in the region, they're only responsible for about five. Breaking off a long-standing commitment to ameliorate those five things won't solve the other 999,995, nor will it ultimately endear us to the rest of the world. All it will accomplish is some ethnic cleansing. And then we'd have to go back there in force to clean up.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 09:11 PM
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reply to post by WWJFKD
 


The first thing to look at is Modern Israel's history, Israel as a country was non-existent until the victors of WWII put it back on the map, clearing out the land's current habitats to do so. Much like Taiwan the US put Israel under it's umbrella of protection, and that's where our support of Israel begins.
I believe that support of them then was necessary and needed, and to Israel's credit, they have shown themselves very capable in defending and asserting their sovereignty.
Ignoring the constitution, supporting them does make sense as giving us a foothold in the area. Ties with Israel has also been lucrative to defense industries over the years. What do they have to offer us though? They are in constant struggle with their opponents, to the point where bombings and munition fire against the widespread public is common. This does not sound like somewhere I'd want to set up a base, or someone who has the extra troops to offer up support for our operations.

Best I can figure, the United State's support of Israel at best is a continuation of the end of WWII agreements, but honestly, how did they ever figure evicting millions of others to remake a county, would ever reach a point where there is peace and stability in that region?



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 12:02 AM
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One thing in particular that is binding is the mafia and blackmarketing profits.

Israel and the USA are stimulating a systematic agenda of corruption and smuggling into Gaza by way of the Philidelphi Corridor on the Israel-Egypt border.

Similar to the US-Mexican border, smuggling brings in high volumes of cash.

The "Binding" is actually between mafias and not necessarily governments.

Governments provide the security.

If the tunnels that smuggle weapons to Gaza and attacks are launched on Israel, why not simply bomb the tunnels shut ???

Can't do that with all the contraband moving in and out can they now ??



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


I'd like to hear more about this, thanks for the submission. You know the lack of responses is suggesting to me something that was in my gut feeling. The vast majority of us have no idea why we support Israel. Just another example of the status quo, just going along to get along.

Kind of like people paying taxes (I'll leave it to you to determine whether you think its legit - off topic) but my point is its just another one of those things that we arbitrarily do, because we do, no real reason, just because we do, we always have and we always will.

Come on ATS. You're telling me all those people who googled Israel just wanted to look important? This is a hot button topic and I appreciate the intelligent responses made thus far, but this is it?



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 02:03 PM
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My opinion - Main reason is political one.Israel is most stable pro-US country in Middle East. You can see how revolutions swept away Mubarak and others. And while those probably were US backed revolutions, with the same ease it can be other types of those revolutions.
Add to it historical issues - despite all the popular hide-behind-US-cowards late motive, Israel fought several wars with Soviet-backed proxies. Even directly with Soviet military personal. What Western country can say that,i wonder?
Add to it religious issues - large percentage of US population considers Israel re-birth as some sign of second coming and Gog vs Magog.
Add to it Jewish influence. Like - Aipac? And others.
On general note - what about those super-duper mysteries:
Why US supports Taiwan? Why US supports South Korea? Why US supports Georgia? Why US supports Colombia?
Or it kind of messes up the purpose of the post?



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 02:25 PM
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here are a few links about Israeli mafia connections.

its all about money.

politics and religion are serving the smugglers (and TPTB) better than the believers !

Is Chomsky correct about the "mafia principle" and is that why Israel Brutalizes Gaza?

Israeli Mafia Controls Gaza Aid

ALLEGED ISRAELI CORRUPTION AT KARNI IMPEDES U.S.

google



The israel/palestine situation is a classic HegelianDialectic

Throw in some Cognitive Dissonance
and you have big profits for the Merchant Mafias.


Cognitive dissonance is a discomfort caused by holding conflicting ideas simultaneously. The theory of cognitive dissonance proposes that people have a motivational drive to reduce dissonance. They do this by changing their attitudes, beliefs, and actions. Dissonance is also reduced by justifying, blaming, and denying....

tends to create false needs at all costs ....



An interpretive method in which the seeming contradiction between a proposition (thesis) and some opposing proposition (antithesis) is resolved at a higher level of truth (synthesis).

The "higher level of truth" is the end result profit !


put two identical bones in front of a dog.

which one will he eat first ?

think about it !



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