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Should I remain independent of established UFO groups?

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posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 05:16 PM
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Isaac,

IMO you need to stay away from these guys. The groups are largely ineffectual and all too frequently have agendas. I was a "Research Associate" for Mufon for many years during Andrus' tenure. Mufon certainly tried to put some order into the chaos, but it is still hampered with indiscriminate appointments of people who are not qualified to find their own mailbox. Individual Mufon chapters are as likely to have Billy Meier aficionados as anyone actually qualified to conduct an investigation.

I put this down to the fact that there is no recognized way to establish credentials in the UFO field. Anyone can play, and many who do play are not really well-informed. Even the luminaries in the field are not as well schooled as they may claim. It often amounts to personalities vying for attention. In terms of information, the journals are just about it.

If you DID associate with an organization I fear you would be exploited. It would be more beneficial to the organization than to you.
edit on 9/22/2011 by schuyler because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 05:18 PM
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reply to post by IsaacKoi
 


You know , it must be pointed out that this website has a comprehensive list of members, a fair percentage of whom are either superbly informed , or incredible data miners. We have so many people here on this site who have all the required tools to begin a group right here on the site, if you , and the site were prepared to put the effort in.

Its true that the accumulated data from the years of research that these organisations have sponsored, would not be available to you here. Its true that you wouldnt have access to the "quality" talking heads and seminars given by these organisations.

However its also true that you can continue your efforts without dramatised , and biased research being your ONLY informational feeds. Here at ATS for example, we have expertise within the membership, and we have information which , although widely available , when compiled correctly could well offer a decent alternative to the extensive archives of the UFO networks.

Also, there is one thing that I personaly suspect about the so called archives of these organisations, and that is that archive a term which is actualy a euphemism for "crap we had AGES to cook up, and do a super effective fake up job on" although I could be accused of SOME cynicism. The fact is that these organisations have a duty to the world never to hold ANYTHING of worth back. The way to beat the system of secrecy that these organisations are apparantly battling against, for freedom of information, is NOT to keep secrets of your own, but to free every byte of data, for use by every man and woman on Earth, that we may all share the journey and the mystery of existance, and of other life.

In short , theres too much money, and too much BS involved with the organisations you are evaluating the worth of. No pure endevour ever came to being in those circumstances.



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 05:35 PM
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Mmm.

Thanks everyone for your comments. I've read them all.

I'm going to sleep on it.

Night night,

Isaac
edit on 22-9-2011 by IsaacKoi because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 07:12 PM
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What you should really do, Isaac, is stop ending each post with a "best regards, ."

Why people do this on online forums is beyond me, but please, stop.

All the best,

hoopwoot



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 08:12 PM
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reply to post by IsaacKoi
 


Maybe you could give it a try and see if it meets your demands.
If not it shouldn't be too much of a hassle to quit.
Down to earth and honest field investigators seem to be quite rare but are essential to not muddy the waters even more.
The "community" needs people with your attitude desperately, if it suits your expactations it would be a win-win.
Go for it.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 02:53 AM
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Originally posted by hoopwoot
What you should really do, Isaac, is stop ending each post with a "best regards, ."

Why people do this on online forums is beyond me, but please, stop.


Sure, if it bothers you then I'll try to stop myself adding "best regards" etc. It's just the way I do emails and posts - it was intended to be polite and friendly.


edit on 23-9-2011 by IsaacKoi because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by IsaacKoi
 


Is it possible to become a basic MUFON member without having to deal with internal ego wars? Perhaps upgrade your membership to include digital files as well. But I'm wondering how much affiliation you have with a group like MUFON? It just seems like a regular magazine suscription. No meeting you have to attend.

Then again, something like BUFORA is a bit more intense is it not? So perhaps I'm just ignorant on the topic, but my initial perspective is that it really depends on which organization you join.

What about joining MUFON as a Foreign Representative (A person with leadership and organizational abilities to represent the Mutual UFO Network in a liaison capacity between MUFON and the reputable UFO organizations within their country. The individual must be bilingual in their native language and English.)

That might allow you to have connections in MUFON and BUFORA?

I'm probably just spouting off ideas here which you have already thought of....



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by IsaacKoi
In the last couple of years, I've probably had responses to about 50% of the emails I've sent to people about UFOs


Fifty per-cent is surely above the average mean Isaac - keep up the good work.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by derpif
Maybe you could give it a try and see if it meets your demands.
If not it shouldn't be too much of a hassle to quit.


Having read the comments in this thread, that's the way I'm heading at the moment. I'll keep in mind the warnings and concerns - I can always quit if I any of those points prove to be significant problems in practice.

It doesn't seem that many people think I'd be doing my personal reputation any harm by being associated in some with MUFON, BUFORA or any other established UFO group. After all, the views I express would remain my own views and each group's leadership does not really speak for each member (since they may hold quite diverse views).

I remain a bit concerned about remaining anonymous if I have some participation in any such group - which is a bit of a priority for me due a strong desire to avoid potential clients doing a Google search for me and finding some association with UFOs (since some legal clients are more than a little bit old-fashioned).



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by Scramjet76
But I'm wondering how much affiliation you have with a group like MUFON? It just seems like a regular magazine suscription. No meeting you have to attend.


I'm not entirely sure. I think I would probably have to be more than a "journal subscriber" (MUFON's new term for people that used to be "members" of MUFON) to be able to make full use of MUFON's database, since it seems proper access is reserved for Field Investigators and holders of certain other titles. (Very, very basic access to that database is available to everyone on MUFON's website - but the access is so limited it is more frustrating than useful).



something like BUFORA is a bit more intense is it not?


That's my perception as well - but at least I know some people in BUFORA's leadership who are happy to respond to my queries even though I am not active within that group. MUFON seems to have more difficulties in communicating with outsiders - so my thinking tonight is that it is probably worth seeing if I have more luck with my queries as a member (sorry, "journal subscriber") or Field Investigator in MUFON than I've had communicating with MUFON as an outsider.

Edited to remove "All the best, Isaac"... Sorry, force of habit!

edit on 23-9-2011 by IsaacKoi because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by karl 12

Originally posted by IsaacKoi
In the last couple of years, I've probably had responses to about 50% of the emails I've sent to people about UFOs


Fifty per-cent is surely above the average mean Isaac - keep up the good work.




Thanks Karl. My batting average has been heading upwards in the last couple of years. I think that some of the larger threads I've posted on ATS help since I can point to those when I introduce myself. (This is one of the reasons for researching the Astronomers and UFOs thread which I'm currently heavily focused upon - and got assistance from quite a range of people and groups so far, but there are still quite a few points to be addressed so I'm trying to reach out to some more people and groups).
edit on 23-9-2011 by IsaacKoi because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 07:48 PM
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Originally posted by IsaacKoi
I'm not entirely sure. I think I would probably have to be more than a "journal subscriber" (MUFON's new term for people that used to be "members" of MUFON) to be able to make full use of MUFON's database, since it seems proper access is reserved for Field Investigators and holders of certain other titles. (Very, very basic access to that database is available to everyone on MUFON's website - but the access is so limited it is more frustrating than useful).



Which should tell you a great deal right there. I personaly think what they do provide as a data base is only in large part to make them accessible to folks that may want to contact them about a sighting. Remember that MUFON gathers info about things that may be a national security issue and any organization with as much info as they have accumulated over the years is certainly seen as a security issue. Did you ever read what happened the Keyhoes organization and records when he got very old and after his death?

By the way I saw a report years ago by a man that said he looked into the cases of hundreds of independent UFO researchers....and my what a high death rate they had.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by IsaacKoi
For quite a few years now, I've been researching various issues relating to UFOs without becoming affiliated with any the large, established UFO-related groups like MUFON, BUFORA or The Committee for Skeptical Inquiry .

However, I've been a bit frustrated in the last couple of years with difficulties in getting hold of information from such groups and also more than a bit frustrated at the number of emails/letters I've sent to people (inside ufology and outside it) with some query or issue relating to UFOs without getting any response or acknowledgement.

In the last couple of years, I've probably had responses to about 50% of the emails I've sent to people about UFOs.

I'm not exactly pleased with that batting average, particularly when researching some of the issues discussed in those emails took hours and hours of work.

I've recently been wondering if my batting average would improve if I tried to become associated with one of the larger UFO groups, e.g. as a field investigator or some such other position.

I'm not sure if such an affiliation would really improve matters. I wonder if anyone that has tried out such a position could comment on their batting average.

I'm also not sure if becoming affiliated in some way with one of the larger UFO groups would cause more problems than it's worth. Many of those involved in such groups seem to spend more time arguing about internal politics and titles than getting on with research and investigations. It may also hamper my ability to share information on Internet forums.

Basically, I'd welcome your views.

All the best,

Isaac
edit on 22-9-2011 by IsaacKoi because: (no reason given)


Think VERY carefully before joining ANY UFO group. The group of people i know have NO PROBLEM messing with a persons life by sending this information mysteriously to that persons employer or any other person of concern....this has been done for DECADES! Split Infinity



posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 07:20 AM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity
Think VERY carefully before joining ANY UFO group.


I was pretty close to seeking to be an active member of MUFON or BUFORA when I started this thread.

Partly due to the comments in this thread, I reconsidered that plan and instead have focused on a different approach - which has the working name "The Collective"... More on that after I finish researching and writing my thread on "Astronomers and UFOs".



posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 08:18 PM
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Originally posted by IsaacKoi
For quite a few years now, I've been researching various issues relating to UFOs without becoming affiliated with any the large, established UFO-related groups like MUFON, BUFORA or The Committee for Skeptical Inquiry .
snip


There is very little difference between a UFO group, organization, committee, etc., as they are all composed of individuals with an agenda and that is to fulfill their beliefs. Investigating groups such as MUFON, result in nothing more than collecting reports because the investigating member always arrives after the fact, and they wind up with little or no evidence. Many file drawers full of paper and/or many hard drives clogged with same.

While your best bet would be CSICOP (old spelling) 'cause they offer better analysis than from believers they also have their agendas and sometimes they sound as if intelligence passed them by.

There is no group or forum that will satisfy a thinking person.



posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by IsaacKoi
 


Basically, I'd welcome your views.

What exactly is it that your looking for,i have exclusive info if you really and honestly would like to no,but its up to you.
It has to honestly be the right question, and you will get the correct answer.



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 03:33 AM
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Originally posted by LastProphet527
What exactly is it that your looking for,i have exclusive info if you really and honestly would like to no


I'm not sure what you post has to do with the thread I started.

If you have information you want to share, fine - but it may be best to post it in a new thread of your own or send me a U2U.



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 05:26 AM
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What exactly do you find wrong with MUFON? Do you have any proof they are hiding things and that they are doing it on their own decision and are not being dictated not to reveal? Or are you consodering them liars?



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 07:50 AM
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What do you seek from UFO organizations? They won't have any proof of ET contact. You will be preaching to the choir at best and at worst you will lose all credibility as a sane person and your research will become worthless when they start accusing you of pro-UFO bias.



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by IsaacKoi

Originally posted by hoopwoot
What you should really do, Isaac, is stop ending each post with a "best regards, ."

Why people do this on online forums is beyond me, but please, stop.


Sure, if it bothers you then I'll try to stop myself adding "best regards" etc. It's just the way I do emails and posts - it was intended to be polite and friendly.


edit on 23-9-2011 by IsaacKoi because: (no reason given)

What other people should really do is stop telling others how/how not to post. Why people do this on online forums when it's a far cry from posting like 'hey how r u guyz letz play sum ps3 2nite ok?' is beyond me, but please, stop!

A friendly suggestion to IsaacKoi for signing future posts in reply to hoopwoot:
Eat my shorts,
IsaacKoi

I have no idea about joining UFO groups, by the way, other than to ask whether you mean to go to meetings and discussions in person, or just as an online thing, etc? If it was just online, it seems to me this would help protect your privacy, depending on how much information the group wants before they'll let you join.

Best regards,
WolfLookout



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