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Should I remain independent of established UFO groups?

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posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 01:52 PM
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For quite a few years now, I've been researching various issues relating to UFOs without becoming affiliated with any the large, established UFO-related groups like MUFON, BUFORA or The Committee for Skeptical Inquiry .

However, I've been a bit frustrated in the last couple of years with difficulties in getting hold of information from such groups and also more than a bit frustrated at the number of emails/letters I've sent to people (inside ufology and outside it) with some query or issue relating to UFOs without getting any response or acknowledgement.

In the last couple of years, I've probably had responses to about 50% of the emails I've sent to people about UFOs.

I'm not exactly pleased with that batting average, particularly when researching some of the issues discussed in those emails took hours and hours of work.

I've recently been wondering if my batting average would improve if I tried to become associated with one of the larger UFO groups, e.g. as a field investigator or some such other position.

I'm not sure if such an affiliation would really improve matters. I wonder if anyone that has tried out such a position could comment on their batting average.

I'm also not sure if becoming affiliated in some way with one of the larger UFO groups would cause more problems than it's worth. Many of those involved in such groups seem to spend more time arguing about internal politics and titles than getting on with research and investigations. It may also hamper my ability to share information on Internet forums.

Basically, I'd welcome your views.

All the best,

Isaac
edit on 22-9-2011 by IsaacKoi because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 01:59 PM
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I've noticed you spend a lot of time researching the UFO phenomenon and you put serious effort into it.
I think you should avoid the mainstream UFO associations and go independent, start your own UFO research group. Over time more people will help you run things and you can expand. Just my 2 pennies.
edit on 22-9-2011 by JibbyJedi because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 02:05 PM
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I would be inclined to say: stay free of such groups.

I once thought they were a good thing, but then I saw an interview with someone who had started one in Canada.

That person was coming back to the country after many years of "self-inflicted exile". In the interview he gave, he said that once he started his UFO research group, he began having troubles ( still gripped with fear, he didn't say what and from whom ) to the point where he decided it would be best for him to leave the country and be forgotten.

It was clear he didn't like being interviewed on the subject, as if he only did it to show he would never touch the UFO subject again. I can't remember his name, sorry.

I admit I was surprised by what he had to say about it all... And we know the governments love to infiltrate fringe groups, so...

And, anyway, if they didn't answer your e-mails, you can see what type of people they are and they won't change because you join with them. Keep working with those who answer you, instead.



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by JibbyJedi
I've noticed you spend a lot of time researching the UFO phenomenon and you put serious effort into it.
I think you should avoid the mainstream UFO associations and go independent, start your own UFO research group. Over time more people will help you run things and you can expand. Just my 2 pennies.
edit on 22-9-2011 by JibbyJedi because: (no reason given)



Almost exactly what i was going to say...

Start a new group.. i'd like to offer my services in setting up such a venture as its properly an interest of mine and im just north of the border from you!! (im a techy guy)

No point in muddying the waters of your own investigations with pre set rules.. and decisions made by other groups.



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 02:16 PM
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While I'm flattered by the suggestions that I set up my own group, I don't really have the time or inclination to deal with the administrative side of any such organisation.

There are plenty of UFO groups out there already, as far as I'm concerned.

Besides, when I've wanted some support (e.g. on the technical side) on a particular project, then to a large extent I've felt free to post an appeal for assistance on this forum or (if I'm after, say, an article from a particular UFO journal) on an email discussion list populated by some of those that have been afflicted with an interest in ufology for as long - or longer - than me.

I don't think being affiliated with any established UFO group would hurt my participation on this forum or on the email discussion lists to which I belong - indeed, I would hope that having such a link would mean I could access more information and more consultants and thus be a more useful member (so I don't think it's a matter of choosing one or the other).

But I really have been struggling with this issue recently, which is why I started this thread.

I'm particularly troubled by how (if at all) I can maintain anonymous (due to a concern about colleagues and clients wetting themselves with laughter if they knew I was interested in all this stuff) while participating in any established UFO group.

All the best,

Isaac
edit on 22-9-2011 by IsaacKoi because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by IsaacKoi
 


Your concerns about internal backstabbing, and the potential an affiliation might have, to disrupt your normal information sharing habits, are precisely what keeps my interest in such a thing at an extremely low ebb.
I also have to say , that baring in mind the propensity of these groups to associate themselves with shoddy work in some areas, and an over interest in nonsense versions of science , would tar you with the same brush they paint themselves with.



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 02:57 PM
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reply to post by IsaacKoi
 


Since you have had an avid attempted line of communication with orgs and folks in the UFO industry, I wonder what drives you to attempt to make first person contact with them other than reap your knowledge from the most recent reports and books on the topic?

Could you be asking questions that have no fully understood answers? You write reasonable well with your OP, but what do you ask in the communications, is it off-the-wall, innane, pertinent or questions of the obvious? I really don't understand. Maybe you are flooding people with your own theories and are not getting recognition?

I'm not accusing you of any of the above, but based on what you've told us, I, for one, am looking for a reason why you are being ignored. And I must question how joining a group or starting your own would have a bearing on this problem you state. And I frankly don't see it as a problem outside of your but one entirely within your means to rectify in some fashion.

As one that has been fairly well along the road you are on for literally decades, I can tell you that your answer is inside you, not here in public.



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by IsaacKoi
 
Access to archives seems to be the only material incentive for formally joining UFO groups. Let's face it, they're no further down the path of explaining the UFO phenomena than independent researchers.

If any group had found a smoking gun, they'd be publishing the evidence. If they had an equation that predicted UFO behaviour or propulsion, we'd also know about it.

On the other hand, there could be some benefits to being part of a group and sharing ideas. These benefits are likely more appealing to people who enjoy the company of like-minded individuals. Perhaps there's a camaraderie that makes it worth the time? Possibly your emails would garner more replies with the addition of a reference to one these groups? Only their members could attest to improved responses...

I don't see there being much difference either way. Authority isn't assured by being a MUFON investigator (some have been serious and some ridiculous) or any other brand of researcher. Unfortunately, 'brand' is key to the idea when each group has an identity and often an outlook that represents a 'party line.'

I guess membership could be seen as endorsement from peers, but would that add substance to your ideas or research?

These are my first thoughts and further thought could change them...



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by IsaacKoi
 


i cannot offer any experience with UFO groups - but i can relate my experiences with groups in other feilds [ which have little or none of the controversy or public peceptions associated with UFO research ]

and my conclusion :

you are dammed if you do - and dammed if you dont [ join ]

as for your " bating average " - joining group A will improve your average with group A - but alienate [ pun ] you with groups B & C



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 03:13 PM
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If you don't join a UFO group, you'll never be privy to the "secret" information all of these groups and individuals have that prove to them beyond a doubt that there are UFOs being flown by ET civilizations around our planet. Unfortunately, that secret information is all lies and disinformation, but you gotta take what you can get.



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 03:19 PM
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Although we have never really talked before, i have read alot of your threads and followed your links and have always found your information to be clear, concise and easy to follow and most have been a real pleasure to read. My advice for what it is worth would be to remain on your own and impartial or start your own group.



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by IsaacKoi
 


I have always seen associations as political. They have their do's and don'ts, their platforms of rules and regulations.

If you are looking for exposure, associations might bring it. But is it really worth it?

Losing one self in a collective isn't always the best decision.

Just the way I feel about "associations".

You are one of the few serious ones in this field. Do what you think is good for you.






posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by IsaacKoi

However, I've been a bit frustrated in the last couple of years with difficulties in getting hold of information from such groups and also more than a bit frustrated at the number of emails/letters I've sent to people (inside ufology and outside it) with some query or issue relating to UFOs without getting any response or acknowledgement.



First off, i'm located within the United States....So i'm not sure of the laws or processes you would have to go through.... Now for my advice....

You should set up some sort of non-profit organization.....Here, you would register your name at the Secretary of State, at which point you would be given a tax ID number, of which the taxation 'language' would be a little different for a non profit group... Being an official organization will not only help you get the respect you deserve and the information you need, but would also get people such as military or ex-military officials on board with answering your questions and requests...

A military official can't be bothered by an e-mail request from "some guy".... In the military, they're taught a certain level of commitment and discipline, and when approached respond more openly to a person / organization with an equal level of commitment/discipline...

The same goes for government agencies and organizations the world over....It's bureaucracy....Without a letter head, you'll never get a response, and without some sort of "official" title that can be verified, your chances are even less.... I'll let you in on a little secret...Many investigative firms set up these 'official' organizations just to get information from tptb...

It's been done in investigative reporting for a long time... As an example, they'll set up an organization called, "Aircraft Quality Assurance Association of America" , just to get the inside scoop and the information they need....Then they'll funnel this information into their actual organization, which could be called "Airplanes Are Death Traps"....

Of course an Air field, Air Force Base, or any other such organization would NEVER divulge Aircraft Quality statistics to an organization called "Air Planes Are Death Traps"...Hence the need for the front org.... There you go Issac.....now go do your thing, and bring the goods back here....

Edit to add: What happened to my font?.....I hate it.....It's very small and hard to read, and i apologize for that...
edit on 22-9-2011 by OneEleven because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 03:26 PM
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Stay indie. UFO politics is nasty. They wont have any secret info that you haven't heard of before and you can stick to what you know about your own investigations. I'm sure you already have some contacts you can swop ideas with.

I'd love to read what you've come across so far and I've had some experience with "experiencers" so if you have a question I'd love to have a go at helping you answer it.
edit on 22-9-2011 by wigit because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 03:41 PM
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Are there any reason to believe it will compromise your integrity?

If not, are there any other good reasons of not doing it? It might even help expanding on your network of contacts, as well as improve your resources.

On the other hand, if the answer is yes, what's the point?



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by Aliensun
I wonder what drives you to attempt to make first person contact with them other than reap your knowledge from the most recent reports and books on the topic?


Because those reports and books often give rise to more questions (for the authors, those they are writing about or others) then they answer.



You write reasonable well with your OP, but what do you ask in the communications, is it off-the-wall, innane, pertinent or questions of the obvious?


I don't think that my emails are off-the-wall. Often, I'm simply asking for a relatively small clarification or evidence in support of some remark. My lowest success rate is when writing to people outside ufology - some are very helpful and interested, some don't acknowledge the email at all.

All the best,

Isaac



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by Kandinsky
If any group had found a smoking gun, they'd be publishing the evidence.


Sure - but, for example, MUFON and BUFORA have investigative files on various famous UFO cases which may include primary material (e.g. communications with witnesses / sighting report forms) that can't be found elsewhere.

Not smoking guns, but pieces of a puzzle in relation to individual sightings.


Possibly your emails would garner more replies with the addition of a reference to one these groups? Only their members could attest to improved responses...


As for what their members could attest as to improved responses, I've just posted the same query on MUFON's own forum - so hopefully I'll get another viewpoint from a few people within MUFON (although very few such people seem to post on MUFON's own forum).



I don't see there being much difference either way.


If there is no significant downside in terms of how I'm perceived, it is probably worth a try.

After all, this isn't like joining the Mafia - I can always leave if I don't think things are working out.

Thanks for your comments (and to everyone else that has commented, since I will not respond to each one individually),

Isaac



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by Droogie
Are there any reason to believe it will compromise your integrity?


I don't think so - I'm more concerned that it may be perceived as compromising my integrity.

A few days ago, I posted something about a project which MUFON is developing and it prompted questions as to whether I was affiliated with MUFON and some pretty strident views about being expressed about members of MUFON.

All the best,

Isaac



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by IsaacKoi
 


seems to me they're withholding infro from you to garner your $$$ to spend on

A). their website
b). Their membership..
C). or all the above..

Not sure why .. but I avoid MUFON kinda like the plague after hearing the Oregon Director tell a friend of mine that 99% on what's on TV and YouTube and eyewitnesses are hoaxed or uncredible ..

yea.. personally .. i'd start my own UFO group, and make the info free of charge ..



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by IsaacKoi
 





While I'm flattered by the suggestions that I set up my own group, I don't really have the time or inclination to deal with the administrative side of any such organisation.


well, you'll need at least 1 partner or 2, that you can trust with your house keys if you were to take a long vacation..

You be the director, lay down what you want to present and how, and let the other 2 work it out..

doesn't have to be a HUGE organization, small but concencrated.. it's the info that needs to get out and presented in a easily to follow format..

DO you have 1 hour a day to spend ? If so, start there..



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