Iran and YOU agree on Something! Hey Conservatives and Rick Perry - Start Clapping

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
reply to post by DaddyBare

 

DaddyBare - you have a personal experience that is unfathomable. In your pain, would you not be horrified to learn that the person accused of a crime against you was really innocent? What about that persons family?

Edit to add: Murderers are taken out of society. They go to prison.

CJ

edit on 23-9-2011 by ColoradoJens because: (no reason given)

Sad as my story is... it was quick and had a no doubt's as to who done it and why... the people I really feel for those are the parents who never know

ROBBIE ROMERO TIMELINE
June 7, 2000: 7-year-old Robbie Romero is last seen near his home in the Bellamah neighborhood in south Santa Fe.
June 14, 2000: Police and FBI agents dig in the backyard of the Romero house and set up roadblocks nearby.
June 15, 2000: Ronnie Romero, Robbie's older brother, is arrested on an outstanding warrant on misdemeanor charges of assault and battery against family members.
June 17, 2000: A woman calls 911 claiming Ronnie Romero confessed to responsibility for his brother's death.
July 13, 2000: Police begin three-day search of he Caja del Rio landfill for Robbie's body.
July 16, 2000: Ronnie calls police, implicates his "girlfriend" in Robbie's disappearance.
Aug. 24, 2000: Police search Fenton Lake for Robbie's body.
Sept. 6, 2000: Robbie's mother, Evelyn Romero, reports her son, Ronnie, failed a lie-detector test regarding Robbie's disappearance.
Sept. 26-Oct. 10, 2000: Police again search the Caja del Rio landfill for Robbie's body.
Nov. 4, 2000: Evelyn searches the Cerrillos community — with friends — after receiving information from a psychic in Florida.
Nov. 20, 2000: Ronnie is sentenced to a treatment facility.
Nov. 25, 2000: Police supervisor Jerry Archuleta is demoted from lieutenant to sergeant for his handling of the case.
Dec. 29, 2000: Police release a 30-second commercial with footage of the missing 7-year-old.
June 3, 2002: Robbie's parents file a lawsuit against the city of Santa Fe and its police department, alleging the initial handling of the case might have cost the boy his life.
August 2002: The police department fires Archuleta.
Sept. 13, 2002: The FBI announces that tests on remains found in the northwestern part of New Mexico on the Navajo Reservation are inconclusive.
Oct. 7, 2002: Robbie's father, Rudy Sr., dies.
Nov. 7, 2003: A judge refuses to order investigators to hand over their file on Robbie's disappearance to the boy's mother.
Feb. 19, 2004: Archuleta sues the department for alleged civil-rights violations.
June 28, 2004: The Court of Appeals says police must hand over their case file to the Romero family.
Nov. 12, 2004: Evelyn releases an age-progressed photo of Robbie and says she believes he's still alive.
Feb. 24, 2005: The New Mexico Supreme Court says the Santa Fe Police Department acted appropriately in demoting Archuleta.
September 2005: Ronnie takes and fails his third polygraph test.
January 2006: Ronnie tells police Robbie's body is "60 feet deep."
Jan. 10, 2006: Police begin a three-day search of the Caja del Rio landfill for Robbie's body.
Jan. 19, 2006: A grand jury begins hearing testimony from Romero family members and others connected to the case.
Jan. 25, 2006: Ronnie pleads guilty to charges related to an incident the previous summer in which he was "acting crazy" at his mother's house and later stabbed a nurse with a needle.
Jan. 26, 2006: Evelyn and other family members testify before the grand jury.
June 8, 2006: The New Mexico Supreme Court rules the city of Santa Fe must open its police files to a state District Court judge to determine what information should be released to the family.
Oct. 20, 2006: Ronnie is acquitted on a charge of battering a police officer, and a judge declares a mistrial on a charge of violating parole.
Nov. 27, 2006: A state District Court judge sentences Ronnie to spend about the next six months in prison for violating conditions of his house arrest agreement.
December 2007: Robbie's mother and brother say in a lawsuit that the Santa Fe police are harassing them.
Feb. 29, 2008: Ronnie is sentenced to jail for a year for violating his probation for the sixth time.
April 24, 2008: Police recover a bag of bones from the backyard of the Romero family; the bones were later found to be remains of a dog.
Sept. 21, 2008: Ronnie dies in jail. During an autopsy, a balloon of suspected to contain black tar heroin is found in his rectum.

reply to post by ColoradoJens


I absolutely agree with you, a person should be allowed to kill another in broad daylight with 34 witnesses and walk away. This of course only applies to people that are not white. In fact we should applaud the people for exercising there demons against the white race. I believe that locking people up for their entire life is also an affront to the personal liberties of people.....

Originally posted by Doom and Gloom
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

I absolutely agree with you, a person should be allowed to kill another in broad daylight with 34 eye witnesses and walk away. This of course only applies to people that are not white. In fact we should applaud the people for exercising there demons against the white race. I believe that locking people up for their entire life is also an affront to the personal liberties of people.....

I've never said anything of the kind. What are you talking about? In the Davis case 7 of 9 witnesses RECANTED. Please post a link to what you are talking about because it has nothing to do with this thread.

CJ

reply to post by ColoradoJens


The original point of your thread was the death penalty was it not? That being a most barbaric and brutal punishment for one using free will to destroy families and lives. Odd thing that this has been brought up many times in the courts, yet the conviction still stood.

Aug. 19, 1989 Mark MacPhail, an off-duty Savannah police officer, was shot and killed when intervening in an argument between two men in a parking lot near a restaurant where he worked as a security guard. STORY: Georgia proceeds with Troy Davis execution

Aug. 23, 1989 One of the men in the altercation, Sylvester "Redd" Coles went to Savannah police and implicated Davis in the shooting, resulting in Davis' arrest.

August 1991 In Davis' murder trial, a number of witnesses said they had seen Davis shoot MacPhail, and two others said Davis confessed to killing MacPhail. No murder weapon was located, and no other physical evidence connected Davis to the murder.

Aug. 30, 1991 Davis was convicted in MacPhail's murder and sentenced to death. 2000 Davis challenged use of Georgia's electric chair for executions in Georgia, saying it constituted cruel and unusual punishment.

July 17, 2007 First scheduled execution date. Execution was stayed after appeals from Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Pope Benedict XVI, Harry Belafonte, Amnesty International and the European Parliament.

September 2008 Second scheduled execution date. Execution was stayed after statements from Amnesty International, the Rev. Al Sharpton, former Rep. Bob Barr, R-Ga., and former President Jimmy Carter. The Supreme court issued a stay two hours before Davis was to be executed, permitting the high court to determine whether to hear the case.

Oct. 27, 2008 Scheduled execution date. The 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals stays the execution to consider a newly filed federal petition. A petition with 140,000 signatures was presented to the state Board of Pardons and Paroles. An appeal also came from the European Union.

Aug. 17, 2009 Supreme Court orders federal district court to consider whether new evidence that could not have been easily obtained at the time of the initial trial could establish Davis' innocence.

June 2010 Evidentiary hearing before federal district court; a number of prosecution witnesses recant their testimony. Some witnesses describe what they called police coercion in the case. At least one other witness says Coles confessed to the shooting. That evidence was not permitted to be entered since Coles did not have the opportunity to rebut it.

August 2010 Federal district court upholds conviction.

March 2011 Supreme Court rejects Davis appeal.

May 2011 Amnesty International and People of Faith Against the Death Penalty send out a call for signatures on a new petition calling for the commutation of Davis' execution.

Sept. 17, 2011 More than 600,000 signatures are presented to the Georgia Board of Pardons and Paroles on petitions asking for clemency.

Sept. 19, 2011 Clemency hearing before the Georgia Board of Pardons and Paroles.

Sept. 20, 2011 Georgia Board of Pardons and Paroles denies clemency for Davis. Statements from politicians and others decry the board's decision.

Sept. 21, 2011 7 p.m. scheduled execution at the Georgia Diagnostic and Classification Prison in Jackson, Ga.

Federal District Court upheld the conviction. Supreme Court denied appeal. If the witnesses lied under oath they should be taken into custody for perjury. Point is Jenn humans are vile creatures, and left with out laws and punishments to fit the crimes these things will become ever more present in our society. I personally do not agree with anyone killing anyone. Yet it happens. What are we to do? Lock them away for life in an 8x8 box?

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
reply to post by nenothtu

 

nenothtu - thank you for your personal story - I have a similar one as yours - my life could have been totally screwed, instead of just screwed at the time...I was angry the courts were so against me and I was guilty until proven innocent. I did thank God when the DA dropped everything. I have doubts mistakes won't still happen. Of course, my opinion.

CJ

Mistakes will always happen. It's part of human nature that mistakes are made. I truly believe that holding prosecutorial elements liable for the "mistakes" they make (to the same degree as the punishments they mete out), which often aren't mistakes at all, but pursuit of a prosecution at the expense of the truth, would severely curtail those sorts of "mistakes".

They would still occur, no doubt, just as murders on the other side of the fence will still occur, Some folks are just too untrainable and overly ambitious, at the expense of the innocent. Those "junk yard dog mean" people I mentioned earlier? They aren't restricted to only the criminal side of things.

Humans are subject to human weaknesses, and you are correct, mistakes and malfeasance will always occur, but I think they can be minimized. It's no less criminal to cage an innocent man for life than it is to kill an innocent man. Either way, you are in effect taking the life of an innocent. One is just a bit crueler to my way of thinking, as the subject has the rest of his life left to agonize over the injustice of his condition. That is torture, which a civilized society should also be above. Years of torture are not more humane than a quick death, IMO.

Barbarism isn't restricted to just one side or viewpoint. That's why I maintain that there are no true civilized societies yet present on this planet. It may never happen, since what one side sees as humane, the other frequently sees as barbarism.

Ugliness, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder, They are the two sides of the same coin.

Originally posted by Badgered1
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Not striking out personally, merely musing based on your post. Please don't think this was an attack!
Sorry if I gave that impression.

Np problem. It's an emotional issue, and emotional responses are to be expected. tempers some times run hot, blood some times boils, No need to beat yourself up over a boil over, nor is there a need to apologize for standing up for your convictions.

If that was an apology, then it's accepted but unnecessary. We're still friends, we just see things differently. if we both saw things the same way, one of us would be completely irrelevant and redundant.

Whereas I am an advocate of the abolition of capital punishment, considering it to be state sanctioned murder. However flawed, the US criminal justice system is transparent and contains prosecution, defence, scrutiny of evidence and a jury, plus an exhaustive appeals process.

In Iran (where the comparison is given) the justice system is not on a par with the US. Capital punishment is applied as an extension of the State and is used to remove political opponents – some say as many as 30,000 since the Revolution , although many prisoners die from torture and other misfortunes before trial.

The US does itself no favours by remaining in the capital-punishment-corner, but to make a comparison with Iran or China is wrong and misleading.

Regards

reply to post by Doom and Gloom


Your last post said something about 34 eye witnesses? This doesn't support that.
Yes, 7 out of 9 recanted their testimony.

Federal District Court upheld the conviction. Supreme Court denied appeal. If the witnesses lied under oath they should be taken into custody for perjury. Point is Jenn humans are vile creatures, and left with out laws and punishments to fit the crimes these things will become ever more present in our society. I personally do not agree with anyone killing anyone. Yet it happens. What are we to do? Lock them away for life in an 8x8 box?

"left without laws" - Are you saying that the death penatly stops people from comitting crimes?
Also not sure why you are ranting against black people, but it raises questions.

CJ

reply to post by paraphi


How is it misleading when the end result is the same? Are you so sure innocents don't die in the US via a FLAWED legal system? I find it telling how we can argue somehow the west (US) is more justified in murdering people than others.

CJ

reply to post by ColoradoJens


First of all i said nothing about black people. Other than white includes a great number of people.

Second my post about 34 eye witnesses was slightly incorrect as they were not all eye witnesses.

Third. It may not stop people from committing the crimes, but it is one hell of a deterrent. What is the difference in killing someone or locking them in a box for the entirety of their life span?? Is it no less unjust or barbaric?

What is your proposal for the most vile members of our society? I am just curious since you want to lump every single person with a conservative view in with Iran.

Originally posted by Doom and Gloom
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

I absolutely agree with you, a person should be allowed to kill another in broad daylight with 34 witnesses and walk away. This of course only applies to people that are not white. In fact we should applaud the people for exercising there demons against the white race. I believe that locking people up for their entire life is also an affront to the personal liberties of people.....

edit on 23-9-2011 by Doom and Gloom because: (no reason given)

Yeah, no mention of black people - only those that ARE NOT WHITE...you are an equal opportunity racist?
Putting someone in prison for life is not the same as murdering them...can't really dig up that dead guy when withheld evidence (by the white DA) comes to light, right? See the difference?

CJ

reply to post by Doom and Gloom


Is it not a fact that if you agree with the death penalty you are agreeing with the Chinese and Iranians?

CJ

Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Because it is a moral issue, not a political one.

Therein lies the Achilles heel of this non comparison between the US and Iran/North Korea....

In Iran/North Korea the Government puts their Citizens to death [Mostly for political reasons]. Here in the US the "Citizens" of each State decided by vote whether their State Governments should put people to death for crimes such as Murder. The Citizens themselves decided by voting if they want to have a death penalty in THEIR State or not.

Not all States have the Death penalty.
The Citizens of those States which do not have a death penalty opted out by vote.


Huge Difference Between how and why the US has the Death penalty and Iran/North Korea!

reply to post by ColoradoJens


You go too far. You call me racist when you know nothing of me or my BLACK freaking wife.

Why did you only choose to use a black person as your evidence. Why not the actual racist scum bag that was executed in Texas?

There is no reasoning you. I am done. Live your fairy tale land of injustice. Have a nice life.

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
reply to post by neo96

 

But, if murder is murder, how can it be justified?

CJ

The death penalty is a classic doublethinkers swamp.. murder is bad, except when the state does it... 1 dead = murder, 1 million dead = foreign policy .

I am against an obviously broken govt taking anyone's life.. party leaders can no longer be trusted with that much responsibility.

Murder isn't "murder".. btw.. it has a proper definition

Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being or fetus with malice aforethought, to wit:
www.leginfo.ca.gov...

187. (a) Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being, or a fetus, with malice aforethought.
(b) This section shall not apply to any person who commits an act that results in the death of a fetus if any of the following apply:
(1) The act complied with the Therapeutic Abortion Act, Article 2
(commencing with Section 123400) of Chapter 2 of Part 2 of Division
106 of the Health and Safety Code.
(2) The act was committed by a holder of a physician's and surgeon'
s certificate, as defined in the Business and Professions Code, in a
case where, to a medical certainty, the result of childbirth would be
death of the mother of the fetus or where her death from childbirth,
although not medically certain, would be substantially certain or
more likely than not.
(3) The act was solicited, aided, abetted, or consented to by the
mother of the fetus.
(c) Subdivision (b) shall not be construed to prohibit the
prosecution of any person under any other provision of law.

Originally posted by Doom and Gloom
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

You go too far. You call me racist when you know nothing of me or my BLACK freaking wife.

Why did you only choose to use a black person as your evidence. Why not the actual racist scum bag that was executed in Texas?

There is no reasoning you. I am done. Live your fairy tale land of injustice. Have a nice life.

I do have a nice life, thanks - perhaps you should read what you post and people won't call you out on it - does it matter to you I have three black siblings? WTF? WHo cares about your wife? You can't make an argument with facts and get mad when facts are given to you - go on leading your blind life...

CJ

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Because it is a moral issue, not a political one.

Therein lies the Achilles heel of this non comparison between the US and Iran/North Korea....

In Iran/North Korea the Government puts their Citizens to death [Mostly for political reasons]. Here in the US the "Citizens" of each State decided by vote whether their State Governments should put people to death for crimes such as Murder. The Citizens themselves decided by voting if they want to have a death penalty in THEIR State or not.

Not all States have the Death penalty.
The Citizens of those States which do not have a death penalty opted out by vote.


Huge Difference Between how and why the US has the Death penalty and Iran/North Korea!

Yes, these countries kill political opponents...They kill MANY more for murder, rape, robbery, and homosexuality - if some people around here get their way we can add that last one to our own list...

CJ

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
Yes, these countries kill political opponents...They kill MANY more for murder, rape, robbery, and homosexuality - if some people around here get their way we can add that last one to our own list...

For Murder? Yes
For Rape? No unless it's of a young defenseless child by a sexual predator then HELL YES..

Robbery and Homosexuality? I think you are confusing us with Iran and North Korea. Nice bait but simply doesn't fly here in the States I wouldn't vote for that.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
Yes, these countries kill political opponents...They kill MANY more for murder, rape, robbery, and homosexuality - if some people around here get their way we can add that last one to our own list...

For Murder? Yes
For Rape? No unless it's of a young defenseless child by a sexual predator then HELL YES..

Robbery and Homosexuality? I think you are confusing us with Iran and North Korea. Nice bait but simply doesn't fly here in the States I wouldn't vote for that.

Slayer - I must have misread your post - I am saying in IRAN they kill murderers, rapists, thieves and Homosexuals -not here in the States...

CJ

reply to post by ColoradoJens

if some people around here get their way we can add that last one to our own list...

Those are your words not mine.